The argument for keeping both Nieves & Kottaras when Lucroy comes back

[prophet]

Lucroy is going to be with the team Tuesday in Pitt. Is he starting right away you think?

[brettac1]

I would imagine he will be in there right away. Otherwise there wouldn't be any reason to activate him today.

[djoctagone]

wow.

 

the brewers are traveling with jonathan lucroy, wil nieves, george kottaras, marcus hanel, bill schroeder and bob uecker.

 

that's a lot of backstops.

[The Truth]

well I could call my self "Nostradamus" but maybe it is more Nostradorkus, and then again even a broken clock is right twice a day

 

I like this move for the time being. Kottaras is more valuable than Reed

 

Still hoping they keep Kottaras when Hart comes back

[GamelToe]

I guess I misinterpreted what this thread was about. I thought we were discussing for the future AFTER Hart gets back. In that case, I think there's almost no way Nieves/Kottaras are both staying.

[JohnBriggs12]

They are short outfielders at Nashville. Reed getting DFA'd upon Hart's return was a given. I assume he'll clear and take the assignment to Nashville. With a 3rd catcher around, Kottaras can be used as PH, when he's not starting.

 

I do think when they signed Nieves though it was to replace Kottaras as backup. In other words, they wanted Nieves to win the job. But Kottaras messed up their plans with a great spring combined with Lucroy going down.

 

My guess is they are shopping Nieves and Kottaras and to try to get some value back. If somebody offers even a little value, they'll deal.

 

Reed: 0 for 7, .000/.000/.000

 

Counsell: 0 for 7. .000/.125/.000

 

In either case, it's a miniscule sample size, but they aren't getting much help from the bench.

[JoeHova]

Reed: 0 for 7, .000/.000/.000

 

Counsell: 0 for 7. .000/.125/.000

 

In either case, it's a miniscule sample size, but they aren't getting much help from the bench.

I dunno, Counsell's Isolated Discipline is looking pretty robust.

[monty57]

PrinceEatMeat[/b]]The reason why your scenario has no chance of happening is that Nieves would be left as the only righty on the bench. That's just not gonna happen. Almonte will be kept as the righty pinch-hitting option off the bench.

Almonte would almost guaranteed be only a PH then. When and where will he play if Kotsay is truly the backup corner OF and 1B and Gomez/Morgan are splitting time at CF? While I agree with you completely on Nieves being the only RH bat off the bench, I think I'd rather be assured of keeping Kottaras and getting rid of Nieves only if a viable backup IF is available to be had via FA or trade. Almonte seems like an unnecessary spare part because of Kotsay. How many teams keep SIX OF?

 

The more I think about it, the more I expect to see Kottaras dealt for a backup IF, even though I disagree with the move.

I'd guess that once Hart is back:

 

-Almonte will be primarily the RH bat off the bench, which is an important role for a NL team. He will also be the RH OF who plays when/if Hart or Braun suffers a minor injury throughout the season. Also, Almonte came up as a SS, and this spring played 1B, 2B, 3B, RF & LF. I don't want him playing the field long-term, but if necessary, he could get plugged into one of those positions to finish out a game in case of injury.

 

-Morgan should be on pretty much a straight platoon with Gomez in CF

 

-Kotsay will be a LH bat off the bench, with a few spot starts to give Hart & Braun some rest.

 

-Nieves will be off the 25 man roster. He is virtually useless if we already have two more talented catchers on the roster, one LH & one RH. His only value comes as insurance in case we pinch hit Lucroy or Kottaras and then the catcher in the game gets injured. This is awfully rare, and the fact that both can hit negates the need to pinch hit for them, so it is even less likely to be a factor.

 

 

[MadScientist]

well I could call my self "Nostradamus" but maybe it is more Nostradorkus, and then again even a broken clock is right twice a day

Your prediction was too precise for Nostradamus. You would have had to say something like:

In the 11th year of the new century,

pain and injury will brew.

A northern city on the water will,

catch it, catch it, and catch it a third time.

 

Which could apply to the Brewers, or Japan, or a host of other things.

[dlk9s]

Reed: 0 for 7, .000/.000/.000

 

Counsell: 0 for 7. .000/.125/.000

 

In either case, it's a miniscule sample size, but they aren't getting much help from the bench.

True (aside from Sunday), but at least we know that Counsell has a clue as to what he is doing and can play everywhere on the infield.

[Warning Track Power]

I'd guess that once Hart is back:

 

-Almonte will be primarily the RH bat off the bench, which is an important role for a NL team. He will also be the RH OF who plays when/if Hart or Braun suffers a minor injury throughout the season. Also, Almonte came up as a SS, and this spring played 1B, 2B, 3B, RF & LF. I don't want him playing the field long-term, but if necessary, he could get plugged into one of those positions to finish out a game in case of injury.

I don't know, Almonte looks pretty darn large (listed 245lbs!) to be in the OF on a continual basis, let alone fill in at an IF position. I still am not sure what I feel about his being on this team as the 6th OF (behind Braun/Hart/Gomez/Morgan/Kotsay) & 6th IF (behind McGehee/YuBet/Weeks/Fielder/Counsell/Kotsay) when Hart is back. His position on the roster looks legitmately as PH-only. We most certainly can find an 6th OF that can also play D.

 

If a 6th OF/PH role is a position for the 2011 Milwaukee Brewers, I'd rather it be filled by Gabe Kapler (Seemingly was released by the Dodgers. Little help?) who wouldn't be a liability in the OF.

[monty57]

I'd certainly prefer a bench player who is a RH hitting IF who has some talent with the bat and the glove. However, we don't have that player, and since we're stocked with RH starters and LH bench players, we are benefitted by having a decent RH bat on the bench.

 

I would have preferred keeping Boggs over Kotsay, and Cruz over Almonte. That would've given us two RH options - one with the ability to play decent defense in the OF and one capable of playing good defense all over the IF. Once we decided to keep Kotsay, we kind of needed to keep Almonte. First, he can play 2B/3B (he was there this spring), even if it's only for the end of the game in which someone is injured... Boggs couldn't do that. Second, Cruz doesn't hit well enough to be considered a decent RH bat off the bench.

[BrewerTerp]

any opinion based off of a sample size of 7 ABs should be disregarded immediately.

[MVP2110]

I really hope they keep Almonte once Hart comes back. Almonte is way more valuable as a PH over Nieves being a 3rd catcher. Although if they could find a deal for a decent middle infielder to be a backup here I would pull the trigger in a second

[Warning Track Power]

I really hope they keep Almonte once Hart comes back. Almonte is way more valuable as a PH over Nieves being a 3rd catcher. Although if they could find a deal for a decent middle infielder to be a backup here I would pull the trigger in a second

Of the remaining bench players (Almonte, Kottaras, Nieves), I only see Kottaras bringing back that decent middle infielder back in a trade. Nieves is worth nothing and could simply be claimed and it seems like every team has an Almonte already. We have another one named Brandon Boggs in Triple AAA. Kottaras is the only one with value and I pray he isn't dealt because that means we kept Nieves.

[jeffy]

In the 11th year of the new century,

pain and injury will brew.

A northern city on the water will,

catch it, catch it, and catch it a third time.

http://www.ezboard.com/in...ages/emoticons/laugh.gif

 

 

Like others, I'd guess they kept them both for now, since they know they will soon have to make another move and either one of them is more likely to have some trade value than Reed.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'm really thinking that Doug will just trade Kottaras or Nieves. We already have Maldonado and Rivera down in AAA. Might as well get some value for whoever the odd man out is.

[brettac1]

Kottaras, in my eyes, has far more value to this year's team than Nieves would. If Lucroy were to catch 80% of the games, I don't understand what positive impact a guy like Nieves could have. Kottaras is capable of going deep of drawing a walk, at least. The value a defense-only backup playing that little bit provides is slim - especially since Nieves' defensive skill is perception and not reality.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

I like Kottaras coming off of the bench more than I do Nievesbecause Kottaras hits left-handed and has a little pop, but if Lucroy got hurt again I would rather have Nieves start. I think that Nieves is a better defensive catcher especially in terms of calling pitches and blocking balls. I don't think that Kottaras can hit or catch well enough to start for any period of time. If Kottaras wasn't a left-handed hitter he wouldn't be in the major leagues. Also, I don't mind 3 catchers. It makes it more likely that we will pinch-hit or double-switch with that position. We also won't have games like last year where we let our pitcher bat late in games because we only have one position player left. Now, that one position player will be a light-hitting catcher and we won't be upset when we have our pitcher hit.

[MVP2110]

I really hope they keep Almonte once Hart comes back. Almonte is way more valuable as a PH over Nieves being a 3rd catcher. Although if they could find a deal for a decent middle infielder to be a backup here I would pull the trigger in a second

Of the remaining bench players (Almonte, Kottaras, Nieves), I only see Kottaras bringing back that decent middle infielder back in a trade. Nieves is worth nothing and could simply be claimed and it seems like every team has an Almonte already. We have another one named Brandon Boggs in Triple AAA. Kottaras is the only one with value and I pray he isn't dealt because that means we kept Nieves.

I wasn't talking about Almonte, I really like him as a bat off the bench. As for Nieves and Kottaras neither is particularly a great option in my mind and will be fine with whatever choice they make. Kottaras has power and can draw a walk but that is about it. If a team wants to deal us a decent middle infielder to play the bench I don't see how you don't pull the trigger

[brettac1]

I don't think any team is going to offer a decent middle IF guy for a backup catcher. You can find 30 Wil Nieves' in AAA/AA.

[MVP2110]

I'll give you that, I don't expect anything really good from anyone. But IMO the difference between Kottaras & Nieves isn't that great and whoever brings back more value is who I would trade

[Schlitz001]

With most positions you have more separation between the top tier players and lower quality players. At catcher there seems to a large grouping of veteran backup/AAAA type catchers. You have your no hitting/little fielding backups like Nieves, your little hitting/no fielding backups like Kottaras and your no fielding/no hitting sand-in-teeth backups like Jason Kendall.

 

Is a guy like Henry Blanco, who is currently getting ABs in the majors, a better option for a team then Will Nieves? Probably not, but not so much so that Kevin Towers is going to give up major league talent to get Will Nieves to bat one day a week. In my mind it doesn't serve the Brewers to have 3 catchers unless were playing doubleheaders everyday.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I agree, but this won't last long. It'll only be for about 10 days until Hart gets back. Just will give Doug some time to decide, and make some calls. I doubt he'll find takers for either guy, but it doesn't hurt to look. We'll see what happens when the time comes I guess. I still hope we keep Kottaras over Nieves, but it's anybodies guess at this point. If there was a clear favorite, the other person would've been let go today.

[monty57]

If there was a clear favorite, the other person would've been let go today.

 

Good point. I favor Kottaras, but admittedly don't know much about judging a catcher's defensive impact on the game. Melvin/Roenicke obviously have some affinity for keeping a veteran, good-defense guy as a backup.

 

At least we're finally starting to get some players healthy, so we can get some of the junk off the roster. When fully healthy, this is a pretty darn good team.