The argument for keeping both Nieves & Kottaras when Lucroy comes back

[The Truth]

Aren't both Nieves & Kottaras more valuable to the Brewers than Jeremy Reed?

 

Wouldn't you rather have Kottaras pinch-hitting than Reed?

 

Bill Schroeder mentioned that there is a chance both could be kept, and I could see it happening. Nieves is very good defensively. Kottaras is a better hitter than Reed and Counsell and quite possibly even Kotsay.

 

Thoughts on this?

[GamelToe]

Reed is gone once Hart comes back.

 

Nieves is unnecessary. He's marginally better at defense than Kottaras and can't hit a damn thing.

[PrinceEatMeat]

There's no way they will both be on the team once Hart gets back anyway, so it really seems like a pointless argument to me. It's possible that Reed will get let go when Lucroy comes back just to put off the decision, but when Hart comes back one will have to go. I don't see them dumping Almonte instead of one of the catchers in that situation. I think Kottaras should be kept. Nieves really doesn't bring enough to the table, even as a backup.

[TooLiveBrew]

Nieves doesn't have an impressive CS rate in his career, can't hit, and isn't really an upgrade over Lucroy in terms of blocking pitches. I don't see what he brings to the table, but I have the fear that Roenicke will DFA Kottaras & keep Nieves... call it the Kotsay-effect.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I also think another thing they should consider is that Kottaras will likely get snapped up by someone if he's DFA'd. He's pretty good at the plate, especially for a backup catcher. I don't see any way that Nieves would get picked up, so he could make it to AAA if we wanted to go that route.

[dlk9s]

I mentioned this in Sunday's IGT, but one of the few comments on a JSOnline article that I liked was when someone wrote (paraphrasing), "You don't bring a guy in off the bench to provide a spark for the defense," as the reason to keep Kottaras.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I mentioned this in Sunday's IGT, but one of the few comments on a JSOnline article that I liked was when someone wrote (paraphrasing), "You don't bring a guy in off the bench to provide a spark for the defense," as the reason to keep Kottaras.

Yeah, but with Kottaras we're not talking about pinch-hitting appearances in the middle of games. We're talking about playing full games from time-to-time. Defense does matter for a backup catcher. I agree with that comment when it comes to bench bats, but Kottaras won't get many pinch-hitting appearances. I would still go with Kottaras, but there's definitely an argument for defense as well. I just don't view Nieves as a defensive ace behind the plate.

[JohnBriggs12]

Let's not get too carried away by Kottaras' offense. He hit just .203/.305/.396 last year. I'd give the edge offensively to Kottaras but it's not like he's a premier bat. Either guy is ok as long as Lucroy plays 75 % of the time and produces.

[jeffy]

I have the fear that Roenicke will DFA Kottaras & keep Nieves... call it the Kotsay-effect.

Wouldn't it be Melvin making this decision?

 

 

 

Regarding the idea of keeping both....teams used to carry 3 catchers in the days when the pitching staff typically consisted of 10 pitchers, can not see that happening today when you have 12 pitchers. With the starting 8 that leaves only 5 bench positions, devoting 2 of those to back-up catchers would not seem very sensible.

 

Kottaras has played a handful of innings (8) at 1st, 3rd, and OF, doubt that is enough to consider him a back-up at those spots but if he can be an emergency fill-in for a couple other postions it might give him another slight advantage over Nieves (1 career inning at 1b).

[dlk9s]

Nieves may be the suckiest hitter ever, but he does have a .375 OBP so far this season!

[TooLiveBrew]

Wouldn't it be Melvin making this decision?

 

Ultimately I think he has the final say, but I know it's been mentioned on this board several times that it seems like Melvin lets his managers handle many of these decisions. I hope Melvin will be the one making the decision, because I have more faith that he'd go with Kottaras.

[monty57]

Just my eyes talking here, but Kottaras seems to have gotten a lot better defensively. Last year he looked kind of lost behind the plate, but he seems much more capable in the games he's played so far.

 

He hit just .203/.305/.396 last year.

 

That .701 OPS is pretty good for a catcher, especially when compared to Nieves' career .573 OPS, which pretty much makes him one of the worst hitters baseball has ever seen. Kottaras is a young player with good plate discipline and power, and apparently vastly improved defense. It has been nice that Nieves has hit better than anticipated in his few PAs this season, but don't expect it to continue. I remember Roenicke making a statement just after he was hired that he liked having a veteran backup, and the next day Nieves was picked up. I really hope that after seeing Kottaras and Nieves play, Roenicke/Melvin don't use "veteran status" as the determining factor in who to keep. Kottaras is pretty obviously the better player, plus he's young with a lot of "control years" remaining.

[chadomac]

Lucroy hit all the way through his minor league career (with some power) and was rushed to the majors - where he struggled offensively last season. He focused on his D (as he should have) and his offense wasn't there. He's said in multiple interviews that he was disappointed in his offense last season and is capable of much more.

 

If you look at his minor league numbers, you will remember that he came up as a hitter that wasn't definitely going to stay a catcher. He is just 24 years old. I could definitely see him getting on base at a .350 clip and hitting 15 homers a year in the next year or two. Hopefully his recent injury doesn't delay his offensive progress, but I'm pretty confident he will make a leap offensively this year. There is no question that he will be starting most of the games behind the plate if healthy.

[MVP2110]

guess they elected to keep Kottaras as a power bat off the bench until Hart gets back. Also allows them to prolong the decision on who to keep

[PrinceEatMeat]

http://brewersbeat.mlblog...ucroy-back-with-brewers/

 

Keeping 3 catchers for now.

[Warning Track Power]

Some of my post is still relevant from the other thread I posted that will be locked:

With Lucroy expected to be back this week, I can't help but believe that Reed will be the one optioned out as he brings nothing to the team and truly appears to be the 6th OF, behind Braun, Gomez, Morgan, Kotsay & Almonte. When Hart returns, the Brewers then will have 6 OF again. I believe we will see Almonte optioned out, as he will never see the field, leaving the rotation of LF Braun, CF Gomez/Morgan, RF Hart, with Kotsay as the backup 1B/5th OF/PH.

 

The bench would obviously be catcher heavy but would look like:

OF: Morgan, Kotsay

IF: Counsell

C: Kottaras, Nieves

 

Like I said, catcher heavy and light on IF, but would allow Kottaras to be used more as a PH without fear of burning the backup C. Not sure if I like it, but I would rather have Kottaras and Nieves than Almonte.

[brettac1]

I'd rather just have Kottaras and Almonte than Nieves. I can't see where Nieves really adds anything.

 

I think Melvin needs to be scouring the entire league for guys with AAA out clauses, etc. because there is no way this should be the finished product bench. The bench should be tweaked and (hopefully) upgraded throughout the season.

[PrinceEatMeat]

The reason why your scenario has no chance of happening is that Nieves would be left as the only righty on the bench. That's just not gonna happen. Almonte will be kept as the righty pinch-hitting option off the bench.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'd rather just have Kottaras and Almonte than Nieves. I can't see where Nieves really adds anything.

 

I think Melvin needs to be scouring the entire league for guys with AAA out clauses, etc. because there is no way this should be the finished product bench. The bench should be tweaked and (hopefully) upgraded throughout the season.

He can start with DFA'ing Kotsay and calling up Boggs. Then he can dump Almonte and find a another backup infielder (Cruz would've been nice). Then get rid of Nieves when Hart comes back.

[MVP2110]

I like the move. Atleast until Hart comes back at which point I would DFA Nieves. I actually don't mind this bench. I have confidence in Almonte to pinch hit. Kotsay is the only one I'm shaky on

[Funketown]

Well that's one worthless player gone. Three catchers on the roster does seem unnecessary though.

[Warning Track Power]

PrinceEatMeat[/b]]The reason why your scenario has no chance of happening is that Nieves would be left as the only righty on the bench. That's just not gonna happen. Almonte will be kept as the righty pinch-hitting option off the bench.

Almonte would almost guaranteed be only a PH then. When and where will he play if Kotsay is truly the backup corner OF and 1B and Gomez/Morgan are splitting time at CF? While I agree with you completely on Nieves being the only RH bat off the bench, I think I'd rather be assured of keeping Kottaras and getting rid of Nieves only if a viable backup IF is available to be had via FA or trade. Almonte seems like an unnecessary spare part because of Kotsay. How many teams keep SIX OF?

 

The more I think about it, the more I expect to see Kottaras dealt for a backup IF, even though I disagree with the move.

[davemakovec]

Well, now we have an extra left-handed pinch hitter on the bench, with the defensive catcher available as emergency.

[thablingster]

I don't mind the three catchers for a week or two. It allows them to play it safe with Lucroy and build him up, with the added benefit of being able to pinch hit with Kottaras on days Lucroy starts and Lucroy on days Nieves starts. Once Hart is back Lucroy should be in tip top shape and Nieves (hopefully) can be DFA.

[yoshii8]

I thought Reed looked very overmatched in his limiteds ab's, so I'm glad he was dfa'd.

 

When Hart comes back, I'll be very disappointed if Kottaras doesn't stay w/ the team. It seems pretty obvious that he is a significant upgrade over Will Nieves.