Shortstops available

[Warning Track Power]

Yeah, was just discussing that on Twitter. I'm glad to hear Melvin is at least investigating both Furcal and Hardy.

 

I'm thinking more and more that Baltimore will not re-sign and be willing to deal him this month. Just not sure what they would want in return at this point.

I second this. If I am a fan of Balitmore right now, my thoughts would be:

 

1. Why would we re-sign JJ to a deal that is likely to reach at least $7MM/year when we most likely won't be contending in the next 2 years? I'd rather add prospects at another position who likely will be part of a core when we can compete in 2013 and sign a decent SS for a couple million until machado is ready.

2. His trade value won't ever be higher than it is right now. We could add MLB-ready prospects that can play now and be entering into Year 3 when we are a contending team in 2013. Let's see if we can add some talent in the OF to compliment A. Jones.

3. Can we free up enough $ to get Prince in FA? If so, why encumber those dollars to JJ. A middle of the lineup with Markakis, Jones, Fielder, Reynolds is a nice start to a lineup that could really compliment our young SP in 2 years. Trading JJ now would allow for those propsects to develop and not make Manny Machado have to produce everyday in 2013 when he is called up.

 

If I was a fan of Baltimore, a re-signed JJ does nothing more than keep us close to the status quo, which isn't good enough. Freeing up dollars to chase big bats like Prince's will make a significant difference. To me this is akin to a Richie Sexson situation. The Brewers weren't going to be good enough with Richie, so they needed to deal him for players who would be around when they became good enough to compete and maybe contend.

 

Baltimore would be smarter to deal JJ. I just hope it is to Milwaukee.

[RockCoCougars]

An extension really makes no sense for Baltimore, even if they wanted to re-sign Hardy. It's not like they are in contention. They could trade Hardy now, get the prospects and then negotiate in the off-season if they wanted to hold onto him that bad.

[yoshii8]

I still think Clint Barmes might be the best option out there. I don't think he's going to cost a ton, money or prospects wise, and judging by the numbers he is a terrific defensive shortstop. He also will give you right around a .700 OPS.

 

Another guy I wouldn't mind is Jason Bartlett, he's had a bad season so far, but I like what I see from him when I watch him play.

[TheCrew07]

I don't know how Furcal can be considered the best option for all scenarios...

 

If we're talking for the stretch run and people are willing to gamble he stays healthy and it only costs us someone like Farris, okay let's take a shot. Farris has no long-term starting role in Milwaukee and doesn't have the skill set to be a utility player. However then we need to acknowledge that Melvin still has to address the SS situation again in the off-season.

 

If we're talking about acquiring someone long-term, then there's simply no way Furcal is the best option. The ultimate goal here should be to at least get back to a 2 WAR situation, at least be league average, and that's difficult to do when Furcal spends so much time on the DL.

 

So I ask, what's the context of the discussion? Are we talking 2011 only or are we talking through 2013 or 14? I say 2013 because that's the absolute earliest a SS solution from inside the organization would be ready.

[Warning Track Power]

Just out of curiosity, if the Brewers did acquire JJ, how interested would you be in re-signing him?

 

I think he will likely get a 3 year deal around $21-$24MM ($7-$8MM/AAV). I for one have zero problems with both trading for him and signing him to that deal but I have a feeling a majority of you would not like to give JJ that much money. I however think a lineup that looks like: Morgan, Hart, Braun, Weeks, Gamel, JJ, McGehee, Lucroy with Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum etc... in 2012 looks pretty darn good.

[Invader3K]

I would be OK with signing Hardy to a three year, $21 million deal. I think he may have turned a corner this year, and he only turns 29 next month. Then again it could just be having the typical pending FA season. At least we would have a defensively solid shortstop for three years until hopefully someone in the low minors can develop.

[chadomac]

I don't think he's turned a corner on being injured all the time. I would prefer to go with Barmes as well. Furcal and Hardy scare me. They're no good to us if they end up barely playing due to injuries.

[The Truth]

I think it is going to end up being Furcal. He fits the Melvin M.O. of the "veteran player", and he won't cost us alot. Because of his injury issues it would be a huge roll of the dice in this, Prince's last year with the Brewers, but that is exactly what I think Melvin will do.

 

I think first Melvin has been going after Hardy but the asking price is likely too high (i.e. something like Gamel plus a pitcher) and instead Melvin will go after Furcal

 

As others have mentioned, I think Barmes is the guy they should go after, but I don't think they will

[chadomac]

I'd prefer Jamey Carroll over Furcal, but I think Furcal can be had for almost nothing. I just think Furcal will end up on the DL and we'll be back where we started. Carroll gets on base at a great clip, not sure about his defense at all.

[igor67]

Given his performance this year, I think you can only do Furcal if you've been scouting him for quite awhile, and your scouts can pinpoint him having transitioned from struggling with an injury to 'looking normal'. Barring that look elsewhere, we just need to hit a single here.

[joepepsi]

MacFail will hold out for too much on Hardy and the deadline will pass with him still an Oriole. In the offseason he will sign with Seattle or the Mets or the Braves.

[Warning Track Power]

I can't help but wonder what DM is doing behind the scenes to acquire an SS. I will say that DM really does know how to pull off some very unforeseen deals that we never expect (Greinke, Sabathia, K-Rod). I wouldn't be surprised if he was kicking the tires on some serious SS talent like a Hanley. Not saying he is available at all, especially with the Marlins moving into a new stadium next year. But something along those lines would not surprise me in the least anymore.

 

Realistically though, I'll still hold out hope we can wrestle JJ from the O's.

[Bernman23]

The asking price for Hardy has to be declining after his recent cool stretch. I'd have few qualms about unloading Heckathorn and Gindl for him. Might even raise it to Scarpetta and Gindl, but that would really be hard to bear since we'd be giving up something potentially significant for a player who we should have possessed in the first place.

 

If it came down to having to relinquish a Scarpetta-level prospect, I'd go down the Furcal avenue first. That's a very intriguing possibility for a couple reasons. 1. he has a team option to carry him into next season when the Crew will still be contending with in house improvements, 2. he was still a very good hitting and fielding shortstop just last year. If the Dodgers were willing to pay a little of his salary, it'd be worth it. Everybody knows the Dodgers need the money.

[TooLiveBrew]

The asking price for Hardy has to be declining after his recent cool stretch.

 

I just find it hard to believe that GMs operate this way; I don't think their valuations of players change so frequently, like fans' do. I think as a GM you have to be evaluating players based on where you see their true talent, & not what they've done the past two or four weeks.

 

I'd love to see Hardy back in Milwaukee, but I just see that as a real longshot (& hope I wind up being wrong). Furcal is a decent option if he's healthy... which, with him, is a big 'if'. I really have no idea who the Brewers should bring in for short at this point. But I have to agree with WTP that it wouldn't surprise me if the move winds up being a bit of a surprise.

[MVP2110]

Any chance Bonificio from Florida would become available if they continue to struggle?

[Bernman23]

The asking price for Hardy has to be declining after his recent cool stretch.

 

I just find it hard to believe that GMs operate this way; I don't think their valuations of players change so frequently, like fans' do. I think as a GM you have to be evaluating players based on where you see their true talent, & not what they've done the past two or four weeks.

 

I'd love to see Hardy back in Milwaukee, but I just see that as a real longshot (& hope I wind up being wrong). Furcal is a decent option if he's healthy... which, with him, is a big 'if'. I really have no idea who the Brewers should bring in for short at this point. But I have to agree with WTP that it wouldn't surprise me if the move winds up being a bit of a surprise.

Just to get it straight, obviously I'm the opposite of one of those fans, as my comments indicated. And at the times I wanted to keep Villanueva, JDLR, and Hardy instead of selling them low. To wit those GM's exist, in fact one is our very own. Doug put us in this predicament because he gave up 3 years of Hardy for nothing, just because he had a few poor months. So acquiring a few months of a cooled-down Hardy for a pretty good and decent prospect should hardly be out of the question.

[TooLiveBrew]

I meant no offense, just that I don't think Hardy's price has gone down.

[Bernman23]

I meant no offense, just that I don't think Hardy's price has gone down.

Then it shouldn't have gone up much to begin with from this season when he hit .714 and .659 the previous years.

[Warning Track Power]

I agree that Hardy's price hasn't gone down, especially given that I believe he still is profiling as a Type A FA. As mentioned previously, I bet MacPhail sees it as I need two 1st round type talents to trade JJ.

 

Perhaps the most interesting thing here is how many teams out there would forfeit their 1st round pick next season for JJ? I would if I were the Brewers, because we likely will have an additional 2 with Prince and K-Rod leaving and 2 supplemental. But I'm not sure I would see too many teams so anxious to part with a 1st round pick to sign JJ as a FA.

[TooLiveBrew]

Then it shouldn't have gone up much to begin with from this season when he hit .714 and .659 the previous years.

 

I didn't argue it had gone up. Forget it.

[Raw Biz]

The asking price for Hardy has to be declining after his recent cool stretch.

 

I just find it hard to believe that GMs operate this way; I don't think their valuations of players change so frequently, like fans' do. I think as a GM you have to be evaluating players based on where you see their true talent, & not what they've done the past two or four weeks.

 

I'd love to see Hardy back in Milwaukee, but I just see that as a real longshot (& hope I wind up being wrong). Furcal is a decent option if he's healthy... which, with him, is a big 'if'. I really have no idea who the Brewers should bring in for short at this point. But I have to agree with WTP that it wouldn't surprise me if the move winds up being a bit of a surprise.

Just to get it straight, obviously I'm the opposite of one of those fans, as my comments indicated. And at the times I wanted to keep Villanueva, JDLR, and Hardy instead of selling them low. To wit those GM's exist, in fact one is our very own. Doug put us in this predicament because he gave up 3 years of Hardy for nothing, just because he had a few poor months. So acquiring a few months of a cooled-down Hardy for a pretty good and decent prospect should hardly be out of the question.

Well at the time, we actually a got a young CF (former top prospect) who played outstanding defense and still had some potential on offense. Gomez still provides a lot of value from his defense alone so that is more than nothing. Plus we had Escobar waiting to come up so it's not like Melvin gave him away just for the hell of it.

[Bombers]

I just don't see why Josh Wilson hasn't been given the starting duty. Yuni sucks and until we make a trade he is our best current option. I guess I just don't get why a guy hitting .273 with a .859 OPS for the crew gets 1 start a week with the almighty Yuni B getting the bulk of playing time.

 

Take a look at the available shortstops Not many of these guys are on the trading table. (Min 25 PA, sorted by OPS) ... I guess Clint Barmes is our best option without giving up Thornburg, Rivas or Peralta. But until then, why not start Josh Wilson every day?

[yoshii8]

I just don't see why Josh Wilson hasn't been given the starting duty. Yuni sucks and until we make a trade he is our best current option. I guess I just don't get why a guy hitting .273 with a .859 OPS for the crew gets 1 start a week with the almighty Yuni B getting the bulk of playing time.

Thats just 33 ab's. In his other 900 or so at bats he has a .605 OPS, so I think there going with that instead.

 

 

[Brewin]

Just a thought...with the addition of K-Rod to the bullpen, does this potentially put more SS on the table if the Brewers would now deal someone like Loe or Hawkins plus a mid-level prospect for a higher level SS.

 

A few possibles...Alexi Casilla/Trevor Plouffe (MIN), Eduardo Nunez (NYY), Erick Aybar (LAA), Stephen Drew (ARZ), or if you want to think really out of the box Hanley Ramirez (FLA).

 

I didn't check the contracts or minor league situations for these teams, I just wonder if DM won't flip some potential "excess arm" in the right deal

[SoCalBrewfan]

Much to my surprise, LAA is only a game out in the West and three or so out in the WC, so they won't be sellers, and they don't really need pitching as much as they could use a bat or two. (Or a catcher, though I don't know if Scoscia would ever sit Mathis, and while we're at it I don't know if they'd have the guts to bench Wells who is their next-worst hitter but leads the team in salary and is second in HR.) They have a healthy surplus of IF though, with Aybar, Izturis, and Callaspo for the left side...all of those guys have been regular players this year with over 300 PA so far, and any one of them would be a step up for us, but I think they like to have all of them in heavy rotation (plus Kendrick).

 

For that matter, Andrew Romine is their AAA shortstop and would be better than what we have; not a great hitter but he gets on base and plays D, still only 23 or so.

 

Hanley's contract is pretty epic, and I don't know what's up with him this year.