Our Current Starting Lineup Does Not Look Good

[TooLiveBrew]

I guess I don't see how either could "live up" or "live down"

 

For me, it's not the stats. It's how they've looked at the plate in terms of approach & swings -- lost.

[chadomac]

I too believe the Royals asked that the Brewers take Betancourt along with Greinke or it was no deal. Melvin's quote means nothing. There's no way anyone would publicly admit it if it was true. It's unprofessional and/or "mean".

[DuWayne Steurer]

I guess I don't see how either could "live up" or "live down" to expectations in as short a time period as three games. Betancourt is a poor hitter, yes, but his average is going to be a lot closer to .250-.275 by the end of the season than his current average of .000. He's going through a rough stretch, no doubt. I just don't know how much the rough stretch can really tell us about what we can expect from him this year. Every player goes through stretches where they just look lost at the plate during the season.

 

Kotsay may not even be on the roster once Hart gets back.

Betencourt will have to hit .275 just to make it to a .300 OBP. Like others have said, it's not about the .000 batting average right now. It's the fact that his approach at the plate is awful. If it's anywhere CLOSE to the strike zone, he's hacking, and he's even said as much. I don't have the link, but I know there was an interview snippet with him posted here where he said that most Latin ballplayers are free swingers, don't worry about working the count, etc, etc, etc because you don't get noticed by scouts that way.

 

Betencourt, Gomez, Nieves, Kotsay.........this is awful. Not even watchable baseball we're playing right now.

[JohnBriggs12]

To read anything more into this series other than the Brewers are a bad match up with the Reds especially in Cincinnati is silly.

 

Brewers have for the most part a flyball/strikeout pitching staff. They are very vulnerable to a team like the Reds that has power up and down the lineup playing in a band box.

 

Wolf and Marcum fanned 12 guys in 8 2/3 innings. But they allowed 10 runs because they combined for 7 walks and allowed 3 HR.

 

On the other hand Reds pitchers threw strikes, didn't allow a lot of baserunners, and gave up solo HR.

[JohnBriggs12]

I too believe the Royals asked that the Brewers take Betancourt along with Greinke or it was no deal. Melvin's quote means nothing. There's no way anyone would publicly admit it if it was true. It's unprofessional and/or "mean".

Melvin has done this in the past. He took Moeller in the Sexson deal too because the D-Backs wanted him gone.

[TooLiveBrew]

Our current starting lineup looks a tick better today. Nyjer Morgan is getting the start in RF. Should be fun to watch Gomez & him run down flyballs today. Naturally, the guy with the carer .360 OBP against righties hits 7th, while Gomez's sparkling sub-.300 OBP is 2nd. Roenicke'd!

 

Nieves appears to be ahead of Kottaras on the depth chart, which is also troubling.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, you have to wonder how long Gomez will stick in the two spot, given he seemed to quickly revert to his free swingin' ways.

[TooLiveBrew]

But he's changed his whole approach -- he's only focusing on hitting line drives up the middle!

 

In all seriousness, I really do hope Gomez can actually focus on better pitch selection & not trying to hit a HR every time up.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The way things currently look, I think it's more of a liability to insert struggling hitters between the run producers in this lineup - when Hart and Lucroy get back, I'd be all for a lineup that looks something like this:

 

Weeks

Braun

Fielder

McGehee

Hart

Gomez/Morgan

Lucroy/Kottaras

SS (I'm all for a Betancourt/Counsell platoon unless a trade can be made to get and everyday SS in here)

P

 

If that creates a black hole in the bottom of the order, I don't care - at least putting all the good hitters in the lineup together will force pitchers to pitch through consecutive hitters instead of getting more opportunites to issue intentional walks. I think there's a benefit to putting your best hitters as far up in the lineup as possible - they'll get the most ABs over the course of the season.

[endaround]

Gomez never left his free swinging ways. Even when he was on fire last September (.378/.395/.432) he still only walked once. He's likely already taken his one walk for the month.

[endaround]

Hart supposedly will be hitting 2nd when he returns

[fondybrewfan]

I am fine with our lineup in the long run. Getting Hart & Lucroy back will eliminate 2 of the black holes and once Gomez wears out his welcome again we will have a pretty solid hitting CF as well. That leaves SS as the only major liability left and even Betancourt has potential to not be awful and will probably have better numbers that Escobar from last year. I know Lucroy didn't exactly light the world on fire last year but I am fairly confident he can at least break a .700 OPS which would be pretty good for a Brewers catcher considering our recent experiences.

 

But right now that Kotsay, Betancourt, Nieves/Kottaras, and Pitcher part of the lineup is just brutal.

[RockCoCougars]

I think that some need to calm down. It's a long season. I mean really- Jermaine Dye? Chris Dickerson sucked for 20 some games last year, and all that I heard was 'small sample'....a sweep in the Cincy bandbox, and panic sets in after three games.

well.... in general, I agree. Its a long season, alot can happen, we have alot of talent. etc etc.

 

But also we can see the writing on the wall with some players: Kotsay has not been much for 3-4 years, Betancourt hasn't been much of a fielder yet in his career, Nieves is a horrible hitter. These guys aren't going to magically/mystically transform their game. And then there is Gomez, who we hope will magically/mystically transform his game but he sure looks like the same old Gomez

 

Sure, our lineup should be much better when Hart & Lucroy return (plus Greinke!). But in the meantime, we could be digging a huge hole to climb out of. None of that is panic...

Point taken. I agree that Kotsay should not be playing every day. That's not what he was signed on to do, and at any rate with Morgan playing today, it looks like Roenicke will be making some adjustments. I am a little worried about this Braves series. The Brewers have always had problems with guys they're seeing for the first time (Beachy today and probably Minor on Weds.) and they've always been brutal against Atlanta as well. If they don't take at least two games in this series, I'll start to get a little nervous.

[Thurston Fluff]

Nieves appears to be ahead of Kottaras on the depth chart, which is also troubling.

 

Nieves seems to be the better catcher both past reputation wise and from my admittedly limited observation stand point. I have no problem with a better defensive backup catcher.

[greeg35]

I have no problem with a better defensive backup catcher.

 

 

Me neither. That's why we should have kept Maldonado (over Nieves until Lucroy is back). Roenicke's affinity for veteran grit is apparent.

[The Truth]

Good to see Nyjer Morgan starting today, although Roenicke did say that Kotsay will start Tuesday because he "matches up well against Derek Lowe"

[trwi7]

Good to see Nyjer Morgan starting today, although Roenicke did say that Kotsay will start Tuesday because he "matches up well against Derek Lowe"

 

Gomez will probably start on Tuesday even though he doesn't match up well with Derek Lowe.

 

Also, how does Kotsay match up well with Lowe? He throws a sinker and Kotsay is a specialist at grounding out weakly, so yeah I guess that is a solid matchup...for the Braves.

[Funketown]

The only thing Kotsay matches up well with is the back seat on the bus to Nashville.

 

Roenicke is already driving this board to wits end! He could be going for a record.

[monty57]

With our offense struggling out of the gate, there seem to be three obvious steps to take right now:

 

1) Get Gomez out of the #2 spot. It's frustrating seeing Rickie rake the ball and then watching Chuckie Carr Jr hack away. It's funny how the "new attitude" lasted until he was out of ST.

 

2) Play Nieves as little as possible. I'm not opposed to a defense-first catcher, but his offense is beyond terrible.

 

3) Let Morgan get the majority of starts in RF until Hart comes back, and put him in the 2 hole. When Hart's back, run a straight platoon between Morgan and Gomez in CF.

 

Of course, all of these moves should have been obvious long before opening day. Hopefully the bad start will jar Roenicke/Melvin into making the right moves.

[chadomac]

I agree with all three of those ideas, Monty. Gomez in CF and Morgan in RF most of the time til Hart gets back, then have Morgan and Gomez split time in CF. Gomez needs to be batting 8th or 9th, and Nieves is absolutely worthless offensively.

[paul253]

Good call Monty. I was thinking a platoon of Morgan/Gomez once Hart gets back. I wouldn't mind letting Morgan play full time though. Gomez just looks like all he wants to do is hit for power. If the guy could learn to draw a walk or go the other way, he could be a heck of a hitter. But I guess there is a reason New York and Minnesota both made him expendable. He just doesn't seem like he's capable of being a good major league hitter. My ideal lineup would be as follows:

 

1) Morgan 2) Weeks 3) Braun 4) Fielder 5) McGehee 6) Bentancourt 7) Gomez 8) Kottarras

 

Once Hart and Lucroy get back

 

1) Morgan 2) Weeks 3) Braun 4) Fielder 5) McGehee 6) Hart 7) Lucroy 8) Bentancourt. Nieves can hit 8th in Nashville.

 

Weeks seems like too good of a hitter, power wise, to be hitting leadoff. If he's going to hit 30 home runs it'd be nice if someone was actually on base for some of them. There are actually three places in the lineup I'd like for him to hit (1st, 2nd, 6th) but if I had to choose one I'd go with 2nd.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'd hit Weeks 2nd simply so he would actually get someone on base in front of him. That person being Nyjer Morgan. He would have a lot more rbi chances, and would see a lot more fastballs in front of Braun. I think that's the main reason I'd move him down. I definitely wouldn't put him behind Fielder, I'd keep him towards the top to utilize his speed and so he would see better pitches. Next year when Fielder is gone I'd move Rickie to 3rd and bat Braun cleanup.

[logan82]

Weeks wouldn't see anymore fastballs anywhere else in the lineup. I have a hard time believing that pitchers change their approach just because of the guy hitting behind them. Leadoff hitters see something like one more fastball ever 4 games than other spots in the lineup. I really have no problem with Weeks #2.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Sorry, but I really don't believe that Braun would have as much success if Fielder wasn't hitting behind him. It's been proved before when they tried flipping them a few times. I think it does make a difference who is hitting behind who. That's not to say that Braun wouldn't still be great, but I think Fielder behind him helps him see more good pitches. Braun behind Rickie would make a difference in my opinion.

[Funketown]

It's been proved before when they tried flipping them a few times. I think it does make a difference who is hitting behind who.

That hardly proves Braun doesn't hit as well when Prince isn't behind him. He had what, 150 plate appearances in the 3-hole last year? More likely he just had a rough month.

 

Again, there's pretty strong evidence out there that the effects of "protection" are pretty minimal.