Our Once a Year Ode to the WWE -- Wrestlemania 27

[brettac1]

Yeah. Admittedly I have been out of the loop for a while, but I watched him as a heel at Wrestlemania XX last night and thought he was good in that role. The whole "intense viper looks" thing is just stupid. The RKO is a sweet move, though any variation of the Stunner/Diamond Cutter is to me, for some reason.

[brwrsfan]

I kinda wonder if Orton was changed when they went "PG". Like maybe his heel image as a deranged "legend killer" didn't really sit well with the PG rating they wanted. I don't really like the PG aspect, I mean, it is wrestling afterall. Things seem to have kinda gotten boring since then.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Yeah, I agree. It was mostly done because the audience has changed to more young kids, because of guys like John Cena. That pisses me off, but it's just the way it is. The attitude era was obviously a lot better, but the landscape has clearly changed. You might be onto something about the Orton character, except that he still punts people in the head, which is how he "killed" legends. Either way, PG does suck. It has also made the Divas pretty much irrelevant.

[brettac1]

You would think now that the election is done with that they could get a little more edge to the product. I sort of felt like maybe there was some Attitude Era stuff bleeding through during Mania - like with Stone Cold, but of course they had to bleep everything for 15 seconds straight. I think the fans definitely want something like that back. Like I said, I don't watch the weekly programming much (if at all) but when I do, I definitely find it boring.

 

On the other hand, I have been watching old stuff for a while and have been entertained by it - the wweclassics.com site is pretty sweet for only $4 a month you get access to a pretty huge video library of old school wrestling. Even stuff like the AWA, all the old territories, etc. Only bummer is that there isn't much in the way of old Nitros, since I guess they show them on the On Demand cable channel.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Man, I remember back in the day when I watched both WWE and WCW when the war was at it's best. That was great stuff. Nothing will ever beat the attitude era WWE for me though. That was back when I actually looked forward to watching wrestling. Now, I still follow it, but I DVR it and fast forward through most of the show. It's not anywhere near the same anymore.

[brettac1]

I was a huge nWo mark, so WCW was my show. WWF really got their act together quickly back then, though. We used to flip back and forth between the two shows, and then also order every single WCW/WWF/ECW PPV. It truly was the golden age. It all got to be so good when they got more "reality" based.

[brwrsfan]

Man, I remember back in the day when I watched both WWE and WCW when the war was at it's best. That was great stuff. Nothing will ever beat the attitude era WWE for me though. That was back when I actually looked forward to watching wrestling. Now, I still follow it, but I DVR it and fast forward through most of the show. It's not anywhere near the same anymore.

I'm with you on this one...when I was in high school and college (about ten years ago, as I'm 29), we used to have like ten guys get together and watch everything live. Raw and Nitro on twin TV's, lost of PPV's and such. Now I record Raw (not Smackdown) and of the 2 hour show, I probably only watch 25 minutes of it tops. I just fast forward the rest. It's becoming very BLAH yet I can't seem to get away from it completely.

 

Someone mentioned the divas, and quite honestly, they should pretty much just dump it. I mean, let's face it, most wrestling fans are males. Most of us don't really care all that much about women wrestling. All they were ever really there for was eye candy. With the PG mode, they really have no purpose. At least that's my take on it. This is going to sound really bad....but unless they're managing, there just isn't much point in having the Divas around if they're restricted to partaking only in PG matches. No more tshirt contests, bikini matches, etc. No more playboy...those types of things are gone. While I can still appreciate beauty of women (they're all very attractive) it's just not the same as it was. Once again, this is fake wrestling, with a mostly male (and probably teenage or higher) fanbase.....somethings are just better suited to not be in PG mode.

 

And yes, the Attitude Era will never be topped. You had the competition, mega stars (HBK, HHH, Austin, Undertaker and the Rock) in WWE. Those are probably 4 or the top 10 stars of all time, all together at the same time, with great feuds and trademarks that would never fly now. Sad....

 

[crewcrazy]

Even though Linda McMahon will never have a successful career in politics, there's too much money to be made with a kid-friendly product. Buyrates are down, but Vince is making money hand over fist with endorsement deals and the like. Wouldn't count on PG going away anytime soon.

 

I only follow off and on, but Orton never really turned after his run at the head of Legacy last year. He never changed, but fans -- mostly the older males in the audience -- started cheering him. Loudly. They've been pushing him as the "dangerous, unpredictable" anti-hero (in the mold of Austin, right down to marketing the finisher) ever since.

 

I thought WM was okay, but you don't expect WM to be just "okay." HHH/Undertaker was at least good theater, which is all you can expect out of those two at this point. Disappointed that Edge/Del Rio only got 10 minutes at the beginning of the show. It felt like a TV match.

[brettac1]

Yeah, it comes down to the lack of competition that led to the PG product. He was fine doing absolute dreck in the mid-90's before WCW came along and started throttling them with original storylines and live programming. Basically, another organization has to heat up in a similar way. I basically quit watching when I got a driver's license (so, 2000), and would maybe watch a little here and there. Obviously, TNA isn't going to be the competition, because they are seemingly doing all the stuff WCW did when it got bad at the end. Someone needs young, fresh, charismatic, etc. talent and to push them.

 

However, they made money hand over fist in the late 90's with adults buying loads of merch. However, like brwrsfan said, they don't have the stars. Maybe a part of that is the whole brand extension thing of having seperate shows.

 

The dangerous/unpredictable thing would work with Orton if the guy had any charisma or mic skills. Really, he should just be a rock solid mid-carder type guy in the mold of a Benoit who has the potential to get higher up if things break right.

[Raw Biz]

I always thought Orton had a lot of talent (in-ring at least) and I thought he was one of the better heels out there. Now he's basically a tweener, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I do hate his "crazed-look" gimmick thing that he does before he punts someone. It's basically the same thing Edge does before he spears someone. I never was a big fan of moves that take awhile to set up (I think the 619 is the dumbest finisher out there, nobody would just lay on the ropes like that waiting to get kicked in the head). The spear and punt can come out of nowhere but usually both guys drag out their crazed-look setup and it's just dumb.

Now there's word that Vince wants to remove any mention of wrestling from the company name and just be known as the WWE. He wants to rebrand and be known as an entertainment company, not a wrestling company. I think that would be an insult to the fans. The wrestling is what entertains us, I couldn't care less about The Chaperone, The Condemned, The Marine, or whatever other crappy movie they make.

Edit: Just found this article that pretty much sums up my thoughts.

[brettac1]

Yeah, that is too bad. Wrestling fans are what made Vince a billionaire.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I still have a faint hope that HHH will turn this company back around once Vince steps down. It's hard to believe that he enjoys the current product. Never know I guess.

[Raw Biz]

I would think that he'd try but when will Vince actually step down. And even when he does, I'm sure he would still have "suggestions" for his son-in-law. I hate to say it but things probably won't change much until Vince is dead.

[brettac1]

Yeah, he definitely understands the business. Aside from booking himself to be champ, etc.

[LouisEly]

there's too much money to be made with a kid-friendly product. Buyrates are down, but Vince is making money hand over fist with endorsement deals and the like. Wouldn't count on PG going away anytime soon.

Exactly. Why do you think that Justin Bieber gets/got pushed? You think he was "discovered" on YouTube? B.S., that's where he got pushed because they knew that's where they could reach the tweens. The only people with money right now are the parents of kids 7-13. They are the ones spending money on stuff. The "hardcore" wrestling fans who are/were in their 20's don't have any money now. When the economy was booming in the late 90's during the heyday of wrestling they did. Now they are broke/unemployed/foreclosed on. So what's popular with the kids 7-13 is what gets pushed. Thus explaining Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana, Taylor Swift, etc.

 

Right now in entertainment marketing you have to market to 40+ or under 18. There's no money in the 20s & 30s age groups.

[Raw Biz]

LouisEly wrote:

Right now in entertainment marketing you have to market to 40+ or under 18. There's no money in the 20s & 30s age groups.

I don't know if I agree completely with this. If we're talking about wrestling here, I would say there's plenty of money in the 20s & 30s. Unfortunately, they just aren't buying the specific product they are being given. If they were given something like Attitude-era wrestling, I think they would definitely be buying. Obviously nothing will come close to the Attitude era but that doesn't mean that we can't have something a little more edgy. I think plenty of kids under 18 would still be interested in this. In fact, it would probably draw more. I was around 14 at the beginning of the Attitude era and I loved it. The product out now is being catered to the under 13 crowd. I understand kids will always be a target group for wrestling but I don't think the product should be completely catered to them.

I guess I could live with the PG product if the booking was better. I'm just getting sick of seeing the same cycle of contenders for championships (Cena, Edge, Orton, HHH, etc.). They need to start pushing the younger talent. I still think guys like Morrison, Ziggler, Bryan, etc. are being wasted.

 

[brettac1]

More people than ever watched wrestling in the late 90's because of the edginess, etc. It was literally watercooler talk for the parents and was playground/bus talk for the kids. There's no way a 40 year old goes to work on Tuesday morning now and talks about how John Cena was "hustling" or whatever the garbage he does is. Not like when they wished they could walk in, flip off their boss, kick him in the gut, and drop him with a stunner. If a guy did that now, I would point and laugh at him.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Well, Edge had to retire tonight. That just made WWE that much worse.

[DuWayne Steurer]

More people than ever watched wrestling in the late 90's because of the edginess, etc. It was literally watercooler talk for the parents and was playground/bus talk for the kids. There's no way a 40 year old goes to work on Tuesday morning now and talks about how John Cena was "hustling" or whatever the garbage he does is. Not like when they wished they could walk in, flip off their boss, kick him in the gut, and drop him with a stunner. If a guy did that now, I would point and laugh at him.

I watched mid to late 90's. When Mae Young gave birth to Mark Henry's baby rubber hand, I turned it off, and have never looked back. I still follow the guys in the news that I used to enjoy watching, but that's it.

[Invader3K]

Well, Edge had to retire tonight. That just made WWE that much worse.

What happened? I missed it.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Well, Edge had to retire tonight. That just made WWE that much worse.

What happened? I missed it.

Narrowing of the spinal cord. Doctors will no longer clear him to get in the ring, and said he has to retire.

[brettac1]

Damn, that pretty much sucks. He was a good in-ring performer.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Edge was one of my all-time favorites. That list just continues to dwindle for me. I hope Jericho comes back soon, or I will have lost all hope. Lol. But really, Edge is a huge loss for WWE. Leaves a huge dent on the face side of things. Word is that they knew this was possible, so they put him over at Mania and kept Christian face. He was supposed to turn heel on Edge, and ADR was supposed to go over. They would be really thin if Christian was heel right now. I think they need to bring Jericho back as a face at this point. They have nothing over on Smackdown. Almost need to push some guys fast too.

[Raw Biz]

Edge is a loss for sure but how long was he actually going to stick around? We've known for a few years that he only had a few years left in him. He's close to 40 so it isn't that surprising. But I will agree that there isn't much on Smackdown. I've always been a Raw guy cuz that was the original show and it always seemed like it had more talent. There is definitely talent but like I said earlier, it's being wasted. It seems like Vince will give guys like Sheamus or Morrison a fast push and then just as fast, bury them to dark matches and Snooki matches. The talent is there, it's just matter of utilizing it.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I agree, and this might be a situation where Vince has to sink or swim with someone. He'll just have to push someone and stick with them. Who that will be? I have no idea at this point. R-Truth randomly got into the main event at Extreme Rules, so maybe him. I think Rhodes has a shot over on Smackdown, and they teased a Swagger face turn last night as well. That also seems like a possibility to me.