Roster finalizations: Boggs accepts assignment to AAA Nashville; Almonte, Reed formally added to 40-man

[endaround]

When Betancourt has to bat for himself down one in the bottom of the 9th because Counsell has been used...

[strawbossisevil]

...Betancourt wouldn't be horrible in that situation as at least he has the HR power capable of tying the game. When the only other viable FA options are in their mid to upper 30s, and likely to be only marginally better, I think the complaining will be largely overdramatic. There are no FA shortstops that would be considered a go-to type of guy in the bottom of the 9th. At best, those other FA SS might get on base only 3% more often than Betancourt, and with less power.

[danzig6767]

That is just my glass half full perspective, I guess I'm just sick of people repeating the small negatives over and over again ad nauseum in post after post while not adding anything new to the discussion.

 

What about posts complaining about people complaining but adding nothing to the discussion?

I guess this would be a fair argument if I had the daily habit of making such complaints. I haven't posted here in a long time, largely because I've been turned off by the repetitive nature of the discussions/posters.

While SS is a big concern, with the Morgan trade, i think people feel a little better about the CF spot. If Boggs had been at least kept over Kotsay, i think there would be less angst over the bench because he's not only younger and better, he can switch hit, while Kotsay couldn't hit lefties if the pitcher put the ball on a tee for Kotsay. It may be a small move, but it truly is a baffling decision.

[joepepsi]

When Betancourt has to bat for himself down one in the bottom of the 9th because Counsell has been used...

I'll take that situation over Ned's refusal to pinch hit for Kendall, ever.

[endaround]

Yost used to pinch hit for his catchers all the time which is why his sudden refusal to do so was so weird.

[MNBrew]

The Brewers have put together perhaps the strongest opening day roster in the past two decades and all I see on this site is complaint after complaint

 

The complaints are precisely because they have put together such a strong team. The problem is they didn't go quite far enough, left at least 1 glaring hole and made some very questionable moves with the bench players. The smart move would have been to cut Kotsay, trade for Morgan and keep Dickerson. Cruz I don't mind losing but I am not thrilled with Almote either especially with Kotsay. We have 2 bench guys who shouldn't play the field at all.

I don't think there will ever [/u]be a time where the Brewers go "far enough" in the eyes of some posters. And that's my point. We have put together perhaps the best lineup/rotation combination since the days of Yount/Molitor. I think obsessing over the fact that Reed will be on the team for a week or two (until Hart gets back), or the fact that the last guy on our bench is Almonte is making mountains out of very small molehills. That is just my glass half full perspective, I guess I'm just sick of people repeating the small negatives over and over again ad nauseum in post after post while not adding anything new to the discussion.

I agree, Straw. The Almonte & Reed carping on here, the assumptions they're major difference makers, using your quite-relevant '82 Brewers reference point, is the parallel to asserting that Rob Picciolo & Marshall Edwards made a huge difference by their presence on the team vs., say, a Bob Skube or someone else. Picciolo & Edwards made little difference at all. Edwards, despite his speed & defense, was a bit-part player at best. Picciolo was the only regular roster guy not to homer that year and really hardly ever played -- kinda the '82 version of Enrique Cruz from whatever year that was or of Mike Rivera this spring: not enough playing time to matter, no matter how you slice it.

 

Edit/addendum: I'm not debating the difference in the level of access to information now vs. '82. We know why folks are able to get into these discussions/debates. I'm just saying that in '82, Picciolo & Edwards really didn't make any difference. It's quite possible that the same may be true for Reed & Almonte (though I happen to like both those guys). . . . . And at least this is better than a few years ago where the debates were all across the diamond but for our starters rather than the 6th IF & 5th OF.

[joepepsi]

Yost used to pinch hit for his catchers all the time which is why his sudden refusal to do so was so weird.

I'm convinced Kendall had incriminating photos of Brewer management.

 

I don't believe Reed or Almonte will be with the team all season. There will be players available from other teams throughout the year. If the Brewers are competitive, expect Doug to make moves.

[DuWayne Steurer]

While SS is a big concern, with the Morgan trade, i think people feel a little better about the CF spot. If Boggs had been at least kept over Kotsay, i think there would be less angst over the bench because he's not only younger and better, he can switch hit, while Kotsay couldn't hit lefties if the pitcher put the ball on a tee for Kotsay. It may be a small move, but it truly is a baffling decision.

At least with Boggs, there was a chance, however small, of catching a little bit of lightning in a bottle, and the guy having a good year in reserve. With Kotsay, I just don't see the possibility that he outperforms the numbers he's put up recently.

[Warning Track Power]

I'm becoming (convincing myself) more comfortable with Kotsay. I think he can bring a decent bat to the bench, won't strike out a ton and will sometimes draw a walk. I don't care much about WAR in regard to him as he won't see the field much at all once we are healthy. He will truly be a 5th OF and backup 1B, and both positions will likely get nothing in terms of playing time. And in the event of a serious injury, Gamel likely is the everyday player in RF/LF/1B and Nyjer in CF. If Kotsay can just fill a PH role and deliver decent O numbers we will be fine.

 

My biggest issue with him is if Roenicke/Melvin decide to trot him out as an everyday player if Hart is out much longer than the first week. Gamel should have enough time to get caught up from his ST injury by the first week and legitmately should be in the Majors and seeing a majority of those ABs if Hart is out longer than the first week or so.

[monty57]

The Almonte & Reed carping on here, the assumptions they're major difference makers, using your quite-relevant '82 Brewers reference point, is the parallel to asserting that Rob Picciolo & Marshall Edwards made a huge difference by their presence on the team vs., say, a Bob Skube or someone else. Picciolo & Edwards made little difference at all. Edwards, despite his speed & defense, was a bit-part player at best. Picciolo was the only regular roster guy not to homer that year and really hardly ever played -- kinda the '82 version of Enrique Cruz from whatever year that was or of Mike Rivera this spring: not enough playing time to matter, no matter how you slice it.

 

The '82 Brewers played in the AL with no interleague play. Bench players can sit for weeks in the AL without seeing the field. Being the only RH hitter on the bench for the 2011 Brewers, Almonte will get a PA in a majority of the games. I don't mind Almonte in this role, but I do wish we had another option in case Almonte doesn't cut it. At this point, I really don't see who that option is, and I never trust the "don't worry, we'll be able to find someone" arguement.

 

I'm not upset with the Reed signing to a minor league deal, I just don't see why he was kept on the roster as the 3rd CF when that move meant cutting ties with Boggs. It probably won't matter, but there is a possibility Hart will be out longer than we expect (he's already missed a lot more time than anyone thought he would) or that someone else will get hurt. Why not keep Boggs around at least until Hart returns?

 

Really, I haven't seen anyone "carping" on Almonte and Reed. Just on Kotsay and Betancourt... Kotsay because he really doesn't do anything well anymore and is a redundant LH bat, and Betancourt because he is likely to be below average offensively and defensively and his only real attribute is a little bit of power.

[bobskube]

I agree, Straw. The Almonte & Reed carping on here, the assumptions they're major difference makers, using your quite-relevant '82 Brewers reference point, is the parallel to asserting that Rob Picciolo & Marshall Edwards made a huge difference by their presence on the team vs., say, a Bob Skube or someone else. Picciolo & Edwards made little difference at all. Edwards, despite his speed & defense, was a bit-part player at best. Picciolo was the only regular roster guy not to homer that year and really hardly ever played -- kinda the '82 version of Enrique Cruz from whatever year that was or of Mike Rivera this spring: not enough playing time to matter, no matter how you slice it.

 

Edit/addendum: I'm not debating the difference in the level of access to information now vs. '82. We know why folks are able to get into these discussions/debates. I'm just saying that in '82, Picciolo & Edwards really didn't make any difference. It's quite possible that the same may be true for Reed & Almonte (though I happen to like both those guys). . . . . And at least this is better than a few years ago where the debates were all across the diamond but for our starters rather than the 6th IF & 5th OF.

A Bob Skube reference! Yes!

[strawbossisevil]

I think part of the issue with Boggs is that a lot of smart baseball people don't view young players as good players to have on the bench.

 

There might be something to the idea that young players do best when they can get regular at bats, whereas an older more experienced player can draw from their career experience in pinch hitting situations in games that are close. As others have mentioned, Kotsay is going to be the #5 OF once Hart comes back, he shouldn't be starting much at all and his time in the OF should be limited.

 

This seems like a current attitude among most MLB GMs, not just Melvin. These players aren't robots, and experience certainly can play a part in certain situations that can't exactly be measured by comparing Bogg's minor league statistics and Kotsay's statistics. I think Melvin made an attempt to buck this experience trend with Brad Nelson, and came away more convinced in the importance of game experience in the team's 25th man.

[danzig6767]

I think part of the issue with Boggs is that a lot of smart baseball people don't view young players as good players to have on the bench.

 

There might be something to the idea that young players do best when they can get regular at bats, whereas an older more experienced player can draw from their career experience in pinch hitting situations in games that are close. As others have mentioned, Kotsay is going to be the #5 OF once Hart comes back, he shouldn't be starting much at all and his time in the OF should be limited.

 

This seems like a current attitude among most MLB GMs, not just Melvin. These players aren't robots, and experience certainly can play a part in certain situations that can't exactly be measured by comparing Bogg's minor league statistics and Kotsay's statistics. I think Melvin made an attempt to buck this experience trend with Brad Nelson, and came away more convinced in the importance of game experience in the team's 25th man.

Nelson was one single player, nothing more. Plus, Boggs is 27, not some kid with only 25 games at AA ball.

 

Again, we all understand that Hart should be back soon and thus the 5th outfielder would likely play very little. In most seasons i wouldn't care about this at all, but the Brewers have a legit shot at a playoff berth and that playoff berth could end up being decided by a single game or two. Each game could be huge.

 

So why i would prefer Boggs over Kotsay is not just that Kotsay stinks, it's also that he, Morgan, and Redd are all lefty hitters. Lefty hitters who are miserable at batting against lefthanded pitchers. Hell, Kotsay batted .000 against lefties last in in 25 at bats. So it's not just an issue while Hart is out to start the year. Say also during the season Hart has to miss a 3-5 game stretch of games for whatever reason and in 2-3 of the games a lefty starts, i'd rather have a RH bat and a guy who can still move to plug in at RF than Kotsay who has been an automatic out vs lefties for years now.

 

There will also be close games where say Almonte is used to pinch hit in the 6th or 7th inning and then later in that close game we made need to pinch hit again vs a lefty. Our bench will be all lefty. I just don't see the point of Kotsay at all and if not having another RH bat on the bat on the bench contributes to just one extra loss, that loss could prove to be huge. Obviously i hope to be wrong and once Hart gets back, he isn't forced to miss any other games.

[Oldcity]

I don´t think there will ever be a time where the Brewers go "far enough" in the eyes of some posters. And that's my point. We have put together perhaps the best lineup/rotation combination since the days of Yount/Molitor. I think obsessing over the fact that Reed will be on the team for a week or two (until Hart gets back), or the fact that the last guy on our bench is Almonte is making mountains out of very small molehills. That is just my glass half full perspective, I guess I'm just sick of people repeating the small negatives over and over again ad nauseum in post after post while not adding anything new to the discussion.

It's not just people on brewerfan who think they don't have enough in important spots.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/will-stars-and-scrubs-approach-derail-brewers/

[MoreTrife]

Stevo]

strawbossisevil wrote:

I don´t think there will ever be a time where the Brewers go "far enough" in the eyes of some posters. And that's my point. We have put together perhaps the best lineup/rotation combination since the days of Yount/Molitor. I think obsessing over the fact that Reed will be on the team for a week or two (until Hart gets back), or the fact that the last guy on our bench is Almonte is making mountains out of very small molehills. That is just my glass half full perspective, I guess I'm just sick of people repeating the small negatives over and over again ad nauseum in post after post while not adding anything new to the discussion.

It's not just people on brewerfan who think they don't have enough in important spots.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/will-stars-and-scrubs-approach-derail-brewers/

"Even though they are taking a risk by employing Gomez, Betancourt and

Lucroy full-time; it doesn’t appear the Brewers are going to allow those

players to hold them back in 2011."

[logan82]

strawbossisevil[/b]]

logan3825[/b]]That is just my glass half full perspective, I guess I'm just sick of people repeating the small negatives over and over again ad nauseum in post after post while not adding anything new to the discussion.

 

What about posts complaining about people complaining but adding nothing to the discussion?

I guess this would be a fair argument if I had the daily habit of making such complaints. I haven't posted here in a long time, largely because I've been turned off by the repetitive nature of the discussions/posters.

There are only a handful of things to discuss so of course it is going to be repetitive. The rotation and 1B have been locked up since the Greinke trade. The closer role has been locked up since early last year and who really wants to go into much of a discussion about the rest of the pen. Of the rest of the starters all are good or young except for 1 or 2(Gomez/Betancourt). One of those(Gomez) at least does one thing really well(defense) and has a decent backup plan. So any discussion about the quality of the team will inevitably lead to its glaring weak link(Betancourt) and any position player moves will lead to Kotsay since many think he isn't good.

[bigredrobbo]

It's good to know that pretty much everybody thinks Betancourt and Kotsay suck. If they don't suck it'll be easy to spot those posters who are full of it during the season by their "I always suspected they'd do well" posts! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Oldcity]

Stevo wrote:

It's not just people on brewerfan who think they don't have enough in important spots.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/will-stars-and-scrubs-approach-derail-brewers/

"Even though they are taking a risk by employing Gomez, Betancourt and

Lucroy full-time; it doesn’t appear the Brewers are going to allow those

players to hold them back in 2011."

Right.... But the point is that Fangraphs is publishing an article about it, so people can't just say it's not an issue. "Hold them back" is pretty ambiguous. Hold them back from the playoffs? From a winning season? Either way, they're still raising the question.

[Ennder]

Calling the Brewers a stars and scrubs team pretty much invalidated everything about that article, pretty much an absurd statement.

[Oldcity]

Really? You have Braun, Fielder, Hart, Weeks, Greinke, Marcum, Gallardo. Granted those are more "stars" than the Brewers usually have, but there isn't much proven on the team after those players. The bottom three spots in there order could definitely be considered scrubs, as could most of their bench.

[strawbossisevil]

Lucroy isn't a scrub, he's an up-and-coming prospect who was rushed last year due to injury, he should improve. Gomez is one of the top defensive CFs in the league, and over a season will probably be a win or two over replacement minimum, even more if he finally breaks out. Betancourt is a replacement level scrub, but that's about it. I would put McGehee in the "proven" category right now, he is an above average 3b. Wolf is an above average #4 pitcher.

 

I'd like to see a current team that has stars waiting on their bench rather than "scrubs". The majority of teams have benches that look exactly like the Brewers.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Gomez is still young enough that what you see might not necessarily be all that you get. And what we see is an elite defensive talent who doesn't hit enough.

 

In center field, having an elite defensive talent -- especially given that Braun and Hart, while not butchers, aren't exactly going to wow anyone in the field -- can make a huge difference. IF (admittedly a goodly-sized "if") Gomez can learn some patience at the plate, he'll draw more walks and probably put himself in a better position to make a positive impact with the stick.

 

I think it's absurd to pass the Brewers off as a team of nothing but stars and scrubs. There's some improving young talent here. Not only that, but there are more stars than the Brewers usually sport, so just saying they're nothing but stars and scrubs is a bit misguided, IMHO.

 

I'm not going to do a lot of hand-wringing over the roster at this point. I like the mix we have, I like our manager, and I like the position our favorite nine is in to start the season. As I've learned here with the hockey team I cover, sometimes it's a good thing to fly under the proverbial radar.

[Mass Haas]

Rotoworld:

Shortstop Brandon Hicks and outfielder Matt Young will make the Braves Opening Day roster.

They were informed of their fate Sunday morning. Each entered camp as a longshot to make the roster. The defensively versatile Hicks showed improvement at the plate this spring to earn his spot.

***

My point being "who?". This is an Atlanta squad set to contend. Is there nashing of teeth over this at Bravesfan.net? Veteran, unproven, all open to interpretation, and of course, over-analysis.

[MJLiverock]

And I suppose the Cardinals lineup is not considered a "Stars and Scrubs" lineup by experts? Or the injuries in the Reds rotation don't matter but the Brewer's are insurmountable?

 

I get raising questions but to do so while overlooking just as obvious holes or injuries in the competitons seems like a half baked poorly thought out argument.

[monty57]

I certainly don't think we're "Stars & Scrubs." This year we're bickering over the last guys on the bench. Last year we were discussing how Davis, Wolf, Bush and Parra would stack up after Gallardo, whether Hart would be cut, whether Escobar and Gomez could hit at the MLB level, would our offense suffer without JJ, was Zaun the answer at catcher, was McGehee a fluke with only one decent MLB season, etc.

 

We have far less questions this season than we have in the past, and I think that shows how much more talent we have this year than we have in the past. It is also why our discussions may be perceived as a bit repetitive.