Roster finalizations: Boggs accepts assignment to AAA Nashville; Almonte, Reed formally added to 40-man

[PrinceEatMeat]

1. Counsell played very solid SS and respectably at 3B & 2B, both last year & the couple years prior. I've seen a lot of remarks stating that if Cruz didn't make the team, we'd in essence have basically no backup middle IF. Counsell's a solid PH option, but it's hardly like he was only re-signed for his bat. He's still surprisingly solid in all facets of his game. Sure, at age 41, those skills will go at some point not too far down the road. But they haven't yet, so I think it's a bit crazy to look at the situation as if they already have.

 

2. Almonte's not only a backup 1B but also a respectable backup 3B. I don't get some of the talk going on in this thread & elsewhere that both he & Kotsay can really only backup 1B & the corner OF spots. . . . . Note that I'm not suggesting Almonte's even a Craig Counsell at 3B, only that he can play there at least reasonably competently at least in spurts and possibly longer.

The point about Counsell isn't that he's a bad fielder. It's that he's the only backup middle infielder we have. This means that we won't be able to use him to pinch-hit as much because we have no one else to play middle infield, or to come in on double switches or as a defensive replacement. Once he pinch-hits, that's it, he's out of the game and we have no one else. The worry is that if Betancourt struggles, or McGehee and Weeks need some days off, that Counsell won't be able to hold up with extended playing time.

[danzig6767]

Besides Kotsay being old and crap, the other frustrating aspect of him being kept over Boggs is that while Hart is out, whoever will be playing RF vs lefty pitchers is going to likely be terrible.

 

Morgan has a career .561 OPS vs lefties

 

Kotsay at this point in his career couldn't hit a lefty if the pitcher walked up to the plate and put the ball on a tee

 

Reed has a wonderful career .460 OPS vs lefties

 

Yea, Hart shouldn't be out long, but most believe that the division could end up being decided by a game or two. Having a near automatic out in RF any time a lefty starts isn't a situation that the Brewers had to be put in. Melvin created it and it started with signing Kotsay for whatever reason.

 

Doug is a solid GM and he can make some moves that are really impressive, but he can also do head scratching moves with the bench that are really hard to understand, regardless if they aren't as important as the major moves with players who will play much more.

[Mass Haas]

Besides Kotsay being old and crap, the other frustrating aspect of him being kept over Boggs is that while Hart is out, whoever will be playing RF vs lefty pitchers is going to likely be terrible.

Sunday's starter in right field was -- just sayin'...

 

The Braves' and Cubs' rotations are all right-handed and not sure if the Brewers will face the Reds' Travis Wood, so it may not be an issue during Hart's absence, thankfully.

[JohnBriggs12]

1. Counsell played very solid SS and respectably at 3B & 2B, both last year & the couple years prior. I've seen a lot of remarks stating that if Cruz didn't make the team, we'd in essence have basically no backup middle IF. Counsell's a solid PH option, but it's hardly like he was only re-signed for his bat. He's still surprisingly solid in all facets of his game. Sure, at age 41, those skills will go at some point not too far down the road. But they haven't yet, so I think it's a bit crazy to look at the situation as if they already have.

 

2. Almonte's not only a backup 1B but also a respectable backup 3B. I don't get some of the talk going on in this thread & elsewhere that both he & Kotsay can really only backup 1B & the corner OF spots. . . . . Note that I'm not suggesting Almonte's even a Craig Counsell at 3B, only that he can play there at least reasonably competently at least in spurts and possibly longer.

The point about Counsell isn't that he's a bad fielder. It's that he's the only backup middle infielder we have. This means that we won't be able to use him to pinch-hit as much because we have no one else to play middle infield, or to come in on double switches or as a defensive replacement. Once he pinch-hits, that's it, he's out of the game and we have no one else. The worry is that if Betancourt struggles, or McGehee and Weeks need some days off, that Counsell won't be able to hold up with extended playing time.

 

At best Counsell is the #4 pinch hit option. He's the 3rd lefty option, behind initially Morgan and Reed, and eventually Kotsay and Morgan. The odds of ever needing a 2nd backup middle infielder in a game are pretty small. Almonte's righty bench bat will get a lot of opportunities and you could stick him at 2nd or SS in an emergency situation. You couls stick McGehee at 2B too. They would be a bit hamstrung if say Weeks or Betancourt went down but not long enough to be put on DL. In that case they may have to option out the 12th pitcher and bring up a Farris who's already on the roster.

[endaround]

You could put Fielder at SS too but that doesn't make it a good idea.

[CheezWizHed]

You could put Fielder at SS too but that doesn't make it a good idea.

 

Prince would be fine at SS. Its all a matter of coaches positioning him in the right spots. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[PrinceEatMeat]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/118784814.html

 

Now the news is that Cruz used his right to refuse the assignment to AAA and is about to sign with Texas. Lost some depth on the infield now, so that sucks. At least we still have Farris on the 40-man roster.

[endaround]

Of course Ferris wasn't set to play SS in Nashville. This is just so foolish.

[monty57]

Now the news is that Cruz used his right to refuse the assignment to AAA and is about to sign with Texas.

 

That was my big worry all along. Now we basically have to hope that "Batter Nine You Sucky" does not suck, or get hurt for that matter. I figured that if Betancourt proves to be below average offensively and defensively, I could stomach bringing in Cruz, who should at least be good defensively.

 

You could put Fielder at SS too but that doesn't make it a good idea.

 

I think Briggs' response stems from the fact that Almonte was brought up as a SS. He most assuredly would be bad there now, but in a game in which Counsell had already been used and McGehee, Weeks or Betancourt was hurt, Almonte could be inserted in for the remainder of the game and would look far better than Prince. We would then figure out the roster moves (if necessary) after the game. Of course, we now just lost our best replacement SS, so maybe Almonte will get the call :-)

[PrinceEatMeat]

This really sucks though, because Farris doesn't have a ton of experience at SS, and was supposed to play 2B everyday in AAA. Now we are in problem if Betancourt sucks, or someone gets hurt. The guys who might end up playing SS in AAA are Wheeler and Maysonet. Not really comfortable with any of them at this point, which is why I would've kept Cruz on the roster. Really though it comes down to stupidly having Kotsay on the roster. Without Kotsay we keep Boggs, and he serves as our righty pinch-hitter. That way we wouldn't keep Almonte, and keep Cruz instead. Now it backfired on us like I initially expected.

[endaround]

Almonte has mostly been a DH the past 2 years and if on the field at 1B. He can play the field in an emergency but so can lots of others. But my problem isn't Almonte, its Kotsay. Almonte will likely hit well enough for a bench bat and it makes sense to have a RH 1B backup to Fielder. Kotsay is just extraneous.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Almonte has mostly been a DH the past 2 years and if on the field at 1B. He can play the field in an emergency but so can lots of others. But my problem isn't Almonte, its Kotsay. Almonte will likely hit well enough for a bench bat and it makes sense to have a RH 1B backup to Fielder. Kotsay is just extraneous.

Yeah, and even if Kotsay sucks, Doug won't have the balls to cut him.

[monty57]

Really though it comes down to stupidly having Kotsay on the roster.

 

But my problem isn't Almonte, its Kotsay

 

Kotsay at this point in his career couldn't hit a lefty if the pitcher walked up to the plate and put the ball on a tee

 

Besides Kotsay being old and crap...

 

I think I sense a common theme. The only person who's happy that Kotsay is on the roster is Betancourt, as he's not getting all the hate mail anymore.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Really though it comes down to stupidly having Kotsay on the roster.

 

But my problem isn't Almonte, its Kotsay

 

Kotsay at this point in his career couldn't hit a lefty if the pitcher walked up to the plate and put the ball on a tee

 

Besides Kotsay being old and crap...

 

I think I sense a common theme. The only person who's happy that Kotsay is on the roster is Betancourt, as he's not getting all the hate mail anymore.

That sound about right to me. Betancourt won't be off the hook for long though if he starts to play like crap when the season starts.

[monty57]

Betancourt won't be off the hook for long though if he starts to play like crap when the season starts.

 

That's alright, we can easily replace him with...??? Oh that's right, we don't have a replacement. I'm excited and have high hopes for the team this season, but it does get a bit scary that we are relying pretty heavily on Betancourt and to a lesser degree Almonte and Mitre/Estrada.

[strawbossisevil]

The Brewers have put together perhaps the strongest opening day roster in the past two decades and all I see on this site is complaint after complaint, usually from the same people, like some broken record. Princeeatmeat (among others), I think we understand how you feel about Kotsay, Bentancourt, et all. Seeing the same things written over and over again has made this forum practically unreadable IMO.

 

This Brewers team is very good, and while they have a few imperfections, so do the overwhelming majority of MLB teams that have similar salary limitations as the Brewers.

 

I understand that some may be more glass half empty type people, but repeating the same lines over and over again gets tiresome.

 

As for the whole Cruz situation, it is too bad that we lost him. Although I am excited to see if Farris can develop into a SS. The guy has shown that he has the tools to hit, if he can continue to develop his glove together with his bat, he could be an exciting player.

[logan82]

The Brewers have put together perhaps the strongest opening day roster in the past two decades and all I see on this site is complaint after complaint

 

The complaints are precisely because they have put together such a strong team. The problem is they didn't go quite far enough, left at least 1 glaring hole and made some very questionable moves with the bench players. The smart move would have been to cut Kotsay, trade for Morgan and keep Dickerson. Cruz I don't mind losing but I am not thrilled with Almote either especially with Kotsay. We have 2 bench guys who shouldn't play the field at all.

[strawbossisevil]

The Brewers have put together perhaps the strongest opening day roster in the past two decades and all I see on this site is complaint after complaint

 

The complaints are precisely because they have put together such a strong team. The problem is they didn't go quite far enough, left at least 1 glaring hole and made some very questionable moves with the bench players. The smart move would have been to cut Kotsay, trade for Morgan and keep Dickerson. Cruz I don't mind losing but I am not thrilled with Almote either especially with Kotsay. We have 2 bench guys who shouldn't play the field at all.

I don´t think there will ever be a time where the Brewers go "far enough" in the eyes of some posters. And that's my point. We have put together perhaps the best lineup/rotation combination since the days of Yount/Molitor. I think obsessing over the fact that Reed will be on the team for a week or two (until Hart gets back), or the fact that the last guy on our bench is Almonte is making mountains out of very small molehills. That is just my glass half full perspective, I guess I'm just sick of people repeating the small negatives over and over again ad nauseum in post after post while not adding anything new to the discussion.

[logan82]

That is just my glass half full perspective, I guess I'm just sick of people repeating the small negatives over and over again ad nauseum in post after post while not adding anything new to the discussion.

 

What about posts complaining about people complaining but adding nothing to the discussion?

[Thurston Fluff]

Doug is a solid GM and he can make some moves that are really impressive, but he can also do head scratching moves with the bench that are really hard to understand, regardless if they aren't as important as the major moves with players who will play much more.

 

That may be one of the best summations of Melvin to date. I would adjust head scratching to tied too strongly to a veteran bench ideal. I think some of that has to do with the Nelson fiasco a couple years back. I wish he would look at what McGeehee did that same season to see young guys can play even if given limited ab's early.

As far as Cruz goes fairly or unfairly I kept thinking Barnwell when I saw him. He seemed more like an organizational soldier than a legitimate major league option to me. I wish him well but really don't know if he is really an option any better than what we can pick up off the streets or waivers on any given day.

[HiAndTight]

The Brewers have put together perhaps the strongest opening day roster in the past two decades and all I see on this site is complaint after complaint

 

The complaints are precisely because they have put together such a strong team. The problem is they didn't go quite far enough, left at least 1 glaring hole and made some very questionable moves with the bench players. The smart move would have been to cut Kotsay, trade for Morgan and keep Dickerson. Cruz I don't mind losing but I am not thrilled with Almote either especially with Kotsay. We have 2 bench guys who shouldn't play the field at all.

I don´t think there will ever [/u]be a time where the Brewers go "far enough" in the eyes of some posters. And that's my point. We have put together perhaps the best lineup/rotation combination since the days of Yount/Molitor. I think obsessing over the fact that Reed will be on the team for a week or two (until Hart gets back), or the fact that the last guy on our bench is Almonte is making mountains out of very small molehills. That is just my glass half full perspective, I guess I'm just sick of people repeating the small negatives over and over again ad nauseum in post after post while not adding anything new to the discussion.

I don't agree. I was...so vehemetly against the Brett Lawrie trade. I still think player for player that was a terrible deal that we're going to come to regret when taken along. I was in favor of just using the picks this year, the picks from Prince, or the prospects we got and playing it out like that. I don't think we're like Cleveland in the sense that once it falls apart and the attendance goes down, it's going to take an act of congress to get it back. I think we'd have been fine financially while we rebuild from within.

 

Then we trade for Greinke, the guy I thought we should have targeted when we got CC, and I looked at the Marcum trade differently. But once we did that, we NEEDED to take that extra half step. It's like we walked 20 miles and decided that the extra quarter mile was just too much. Even a guy like Orlando Cabrera would have been fine. I'd have been perfectly content with Carlos Gomez in CF and Orlando Cabrera or a passable defender at short in liu of Betencourt.

 

It's a terrifying thought as a Brewers fan to go into the season with a top 5 1-5 rotation, one of the best top 5 lineup's in the game, and then have Rickie Weeks(who might be my favorite player) as your 2nd best defender, particularly when your BEST defender is a guy who could easily struggle to a .290 OBP again and find himself on the bench(or better yet in AAA if that does in fact happen).

 

I'm also not advocating a blockbuster move. I'm not saying we've got to add 19 million in salary by trading for Carlos Beltran, or that we need to trade for Jose Reyes. Jack Wilson would have been plenty for me. Our farm is terrible right now in terms of top end talent, but we've still got a litany of players who are big league prospects. Fringe starters, utility players, #3 starters, good power armed relievers...with a couple guys who could be special talents littered in there. We could and should take that extra baby step to complete the team....IMO.

[strawbossisevil]

That is just my glass half full perspective, I guess I'm just sick of people repeating the small negatives over and over again ad nauseum in post after post while not adding anything new to the discussion.

 

What about posts complaining about people complaining but adding nothing to the discussion?

I guess this would be a fair argument if I had the daily habit of making such complaints. I haven't posted here in a long time, largely because I've been turned off by the repetitive nature of the discussions/posters.

[JohnBriggs12]

Cruz refusing his assignment is no big deal I haven't seen all the cuts this spring, but noted that the Mariners released Josh Wilson. Guys like Cruz aren't that hard to find.

[owbc]

Part of the fun of an online Brewers message board is to obsess about every little move that gets made. Even better when there are two or even three or four different perspectives about how moves should be made.

 

It would be nice if every roster move was like the Greinke trade--almost universally heralded by Brewers fans as a significant improvement to the club. Unfortunately, most moves, especially with the last few guys on the roster, are just asking for significant debate. There are good arguments in both directions. The Nyjer Morgan vs. Gomez argument will probably be going on throughout the season and there will be plenty of "evidence" to support both sides once the season starts. What do you do when you have several replacement-level outfielders suddenly hit .350 in ST? They can't all stay on the team and the "losers" can't just be sent to the minors to wait for their turn. I've never seen any of these guys play in person and 50 AB is not enough to judge, so you kind of have to default to management and assume they can determine if Boggs and Cruz are worth keeping or not.

 

Keep in mind that every player on the 25-man roster gets used--and by July there will be at least 30-35 players used and quite possibly more. When players have options it is easy to mix things up, but it makes it harder when you either keep or lose guys like Luis Cruz. The Brewers depth is an advantage in this case and major league-caliber players are getting released. That is bound to stir up debate even if this is a very good Brewers team. It is a very good Brewers team with one of the worst defenses in MLB, and teams with poor defense rarely make the playoffs. There will be harsh repercussions if things go badly in 2011. Depth is always going to be a concern as well.

 

Or maybe we are all sick of Spring Training and really looking forward to Thursday?

[monty57]

Strawboss, I am a "glass half full" type. The post of mine you seem to have initially referenced simply said: "I'm excited and have high hopes for the team this season, but it does get a bit scary that we are relying pretty heavily on Betancourt and to a lesser degree Almonte and Mitre/Estrada."

 

What people are negative on are the small things. This is a thread about our bench, specifically Luis Cruz and Boggs getting cut and Almonte and Reed making the team. We look to be a poor fielding team with a LH -heavy bench. Maybe they're pretty small things to complain about in the grand scheme of things, but I would like to see us keep a good defender and/or good RH bat over someone like Kotsay who is a poor defender with a below-average LH bat. If it helps us win one extra game during the season, then I'd like to see it.

 

Again, I think we all agree that this looks to be a good year for the Brewers, but we'll talk about the news for the day. I don't think there would be much discussion in a "Who will be our first baseman" or "Will Ryan Bruan continue to hit" thread. I'll guarantee that once the season starts the threads discussing Luis Cruz will dry up pretty quickly, although we may still hear some grumbling over Kotsay and Betancourt.