Gallardo and limiting his innings

[logan82]

Keep these 4 names in mind as well. Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, Scott Olsen and Anibal Sanchez.

 

Johnson - on 15 day DL with right forearm strain

Nolasco - on 60 day DL with right elbow inflammation

Olsen - Actually pitching

Sanchez - out for season with torn labrum

 

Edit:Below is the innings pitched and year for each of these pitchers. In 2005 Olsen went on the DL and was out for the remainder of the season with elbow discomfort. in 2006 Johnson was shut down for the season on Sept 12.

 [b]2004 2005 2006[/b]
Johnson 114 152 157
Nolasco 147 161 140
Olsen 136 100 186
Nolasco 147 161 140

(edit: prettified chart http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif --1992casey)

[rluzinski]

Quote:

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Gallardo threw 145 innings at two Minor League stops in 2006, and the Brewers ideally would let him reach the 170-175 inning mark this season and then bump to the 200-inning plateau in 2008. General manager Doug Melvin commissioned his son, Corey, to compile a list of young pitchers' workloads from year to year and whether they experienced health issues after a more dramatic spike. Often, they did.

 

So will the Brewers have to limit Gallardo's innings?

 

"We'll try to find ways. But we need him now," Melvin said. "We'll just have to keep out eye on it. You see what it did to the Marlins starters -- three starters from last year. The history of [Cubs' right-hander] Kerry Wood. [Gallardo] has a good delivery, but he doesn't have a lot of innings."

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[TuesdaysWithRillo]

This is a huge blow to the chances of having Gallardo for the playoffs if the Brewers truly keep his innings at 175.

[homer]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if those Marlin starters were drafted and signed right out of high school?

[1992casey]

I believe both baseball-reference.com and thebaseballcube.com show draft positions and schools on the individual player pages.

[brettac1]

This is a huge blow to the chances of having Gallardo for the playoffs if the Brewers truly keep his innings at 175.

 

Yeah, but they don't have to be in win now mode. A much bigger blow would be pitching him 220 innings and having his shoulder give out and having him pitch 0 innings for a year and a half.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

A much bigger blow would be pitching him 220 innings and having his shoulder give out and having him pitch 0 innings for a year and a half.

 

I completely agree, but I'm just saying that the Sheets injury is having a huge ripple effect. I was hoping we could keep Yo in the bullpen until September. Now we are going to have to shut him down in September. I hope we give Parra a shot to start to see what he's got at the ML level.

[JohnBriggs12]

Let me make a correction here. Gallardo logged 155 innings in 2006, not 145. That's a pretty significant difference.

 

Bumping him by 20-25 innings would put him at 175-180. He's at 106 for this season. If he were inserted into the rotation and kept there the rest of the way, he'd make 14 more starts. At 6 innings per start, that's 84 more innings for a total of 190. To get to the "desired range", he'd need to skip 2 of starts, which could be easily done when Sheets returns just by moving guys up when there are off days or by moving him back to the bullpen for 2-3 weeks.

 

As for the postseason, heck we don't know now if there will be a postseason. If there is, hopefully, it will be clinched with a week to 10 days left, and he can be saved some then.

 

Remember this too. Innings totals do not tell the whole story. Pitch counts are a little more telling.

[Thurston Fluff]

With Sheets on the DL YoGa gets his innings now instead of August. I don't think it has to effect September/October all that much. If his innings get to the point he will be overused in September we could always give Villenueva or Parra a couple starts. I wouldn't mind the three of them all taking a couple starts for Sheets instead of relying one one guy to do it.

[rluzinski]

Sheets getting hurt now is a lot better than Sheets getting hurt in September, though. If Melvin isn't going to have Yo in late September, it's better to know that now than after he trades Vargas, or whatever.

[BillScottCanRake]

I hope we give Parra a shot to start to see what he's got at the ML level.

 

He'll pitch, but he'll be under a strict innings limit, too, and his 106 is already his highest since 2003.

 

I don't recall seeing his innings limit, but given he pitched 85 innings last year and hasn't gone more than 100 since 2003, I suspect it will be in the 130ish range.

 

Pitch counts are a little more telling.

 

Yeah, but generally speaking, a pitchers pitches-per-inning generally is close enough from year-to-year that innings can be substituted.

[rluzinski]

Quote:

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At 6 innings per start, that's 84 more innings for a total of 190. To get to the "desired range", he'd need to skip 2 of starts, which could be easily done when Sheets returns just by moving guys up when there are off days or by moving him back to the bullpen for 2-3 weeks.

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I wonder if we weren't far away from Yo being inserted into the rotation for good, anyway. August 1 might have been circled on Melvin's calender all along.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Even if Sheets didn't get injured, Gallardo would probably have been bumped into the rotation right after the trade deadline anyway. If anything, Sheets' injury may give Capuano a few more starts to show that he can pitch effectively. The Brewers have enough starting pitching depth to weather Sheets' injury (as long as he's back soon) and keep Gallardo's innings limited at the same time. Once Sheets is back, Gallardo can have a start or two skipped during August if need be to keep him fresh.

 

Parra being added to the roster basically serves as replacing Yo in the pen for now, but he's a definite option for a spot start or two down the stretch if Vargas and Capuano continue to struggle, or if trades between now and the deadline send either of them packing.

 

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[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Do we have to worry about Parra's innings limit as much? Doesn't being 24 years old as opposed to Yo's age of 21 allow us to pitch him more innings?

[Team Canada]

I believe Yost or Melvin said in a recent Brewers article that a 5th starter is only needed 3 times in August. That's a convenient way to limit his innings.

[BillScottCanRake]

Do we have to worry about Parra's innings limit as much? Doesn't being 24 years old as opposed to Yo's age of 21 allow us to pitch him more innings?

 

Yes, for a couple of reasons.

 

First, Doug Melvin said so. So, no matter what anyone else thinks about it, and whether or not they think it's a good idea or not, it's gonna happen.

 

Second, Parra is three years older but has had some significant injuries. While you don't want to baby him too much, its important to not overwork him.

 

And, finally, remember it's not the total number of innings that is an issue, but rather the increased number of innings from the prior year that is thought to cause arm issues. 130-150 innings might not seem like a lot, but that would be between 50-70 innings more than last year, and his highest total since A ball in 2003.

[GAME05]

and let's not forget September roster expansion. Parra could be called up and make some spot starts for Gallardo here and there. And assuming Balfour and Thatcher are added in September and they do well, maybe Villy could make a start here and there for Gallardo.

[splitterpfj]

If Sheets is out until Sept 1, it looks like Gallardo would get about eight starts. I would guess that's about 50 innings, putting him at 155-160 for the season at that point.

 

That is assuming they never skip his turn due to off-days, which of course they could decide to do along the way.

 

If things play out that way, the team should be able to have him at 175-180 IP at the end of the regular season. If there is a postseason, flip a coin and look away...there won't be an easy answer.

[tigerbrew]

I think the best way to limit Yo's innings is to try and clinch the playoff berth quickly, the Brewers can then rest Yo for the remaining schedule before the postseason starts. But in order to clinch the playoff berth quickly may require Yo to make his starts now.

[GAME05]

do you really see him skipping starts, though? limited innings or not, with Sheets gone, it's possible he becomes the most consistent (or even best) pitcher out there. And when you're only a few games up, it'll be awful tough to see his start be given to someone else.

 

I'm a little surprised they didn't say they'd keep Gallardo in the bullpen and have Villy be the 5th starter for a while.

[bacon06]

This situation is such a catch-22. To get to the post season, the Brewers benefit by having a pitcher like Gallardo in their rotation, but this could potentially run his innings total too far up and make it a long term risk to pitch him in the playoffs. Perhaps having Villanueva start a few games instead of Gallardo would keep Gallardo's inning total low enough to be able to have him pitch in the playoffs. This is why Melvin and Yost make the big bucks, decisions like these.

[pogokat]

I say just get villy a few starts in here and there and make sure you have a very quick hook with yo...todays move was perfect...he shouldnt throw over 6 innings ever...

 

honestly, if the brewers are up by more than 3, or down by more than 3, i'd yank him in the 5th every time out...they've really got too take care of this, because i'm pretty sure we want him to have 15-20 innings in the playoffs...

[logan82]

Quote:

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I believe Yost or Melvin said in a recent Brewers article that a 5th starter is only needed 3 times in August. That's a convenient way to limit his innings.

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That is why I think YoYo gets inserted into the rotation as the 5th starter and not just straight up for Sheets. YoYo may be our best starter right now, but if you look at how many runs our offense has been scoring the past few weeks it is more of a problem than our pitching has been. If the offense puts up a few more runs we don't need YoYo to make the playoffs. Inserting him as the 5th starter and skipping his turns keeps him sharper than just shutting him down for September would.

[Scooter1027]

My thought was to rotate all three young 'uns. I don't know how you'd pull that off logistically, but maybe have Parra take a start or two, Villanueva a start or two, and then Gallardo can have the rest. That should put him on pace to be under the innings limits and available for the playoffs (knock on wood). I don't know if it would work simply because that's a lot of bouncing back and forth from the pen to the rotation. But it would save everyone's innings.

[JohnBriggs12]

Games like yesterday, where he goes 6 relatively stress free innings with 89 pitches are one way to limit stress on his arm without focusing entirely on innings totals.

 

Build him a nice lead, get him out of there an inning earlier and you save some wear and tear.