Gallardo and limiting his innings

[letsgored]

Let's assume that Yo shows that he belongs as a starter. I know that many have expressed concern with the number of innings he might pitch as a full time starter for the rest of the season. Would Yo's inning total be manageable by making him the the fifth starter, where you could skip a number of his starts?

[Brian the Automator]

[ Let's assume that Yo shows that he belongs as a starter. I know that many have expresses concern with the number of innings he might pitch as a full time starter for the rest of the season. Would Yo's inning total be manageable by making him the the fifth starter, where you could skip a number of his starts? ]

 

I think that if you looked at innings in a vacuum, yes. However, I'm not sure I'd want him to have the irregularity of innings that goes along with that territory. I'd rather see him scaled back, getting some regular work, then stretched back out for the playoffs (assuming he's performing well, and someone else in the rotation isn't).

[letsgored]

Quote:

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However, I'm not sure I'd want him to have the irregularity of innings that goes along with that territory.

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That's a fair point. I know that you need to treat a special talent like Yo with kid gloves. I like the thought of stretching him out later to possibly start in the playoffs.

[1992casey]

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Would Yo's inning total be manageable by making him the the fifth starter, where you could skip a number of his starts?

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If you use a ballpark figure of 100 innings for Yo, 16 starts times 6 innings = 96 innings. Brewer starters have about 19 starts apiece left. It looks like it might work, but I wouldn't depend on it.

[chadomac]

Why do you have to limit his innings? So he doesn't get burnt out in his first year? Just curious, I don't get it and I've heard this mentioned a lot on this board.

[Ennder]

Studies have shown a very strong correlation between 25+ IP jumps in usage and injuries for a young starter. Its really more of a matter of pitch counts etc but IP is more readily available.

 

Gallardo went 150ish IP last year so conventional wisdom says they should try to limit him to 175 IP this season and then he can throw 200 IP next year.

[1992casey]

Although it seems counterintuitive, older pitchers are less subject to injury than younger ones.

 

Very, very young pitchers are fragile, and organizations want to 'build them up' to a full season's worth of innings very carefully. Keep in mind that pulling this off becomes more complicated with the major league season being a month longer than the minor league season.

[sbrylski]

Why do you have to limit his innings? So he doesn't get burnt out in his first year? Just curious, I don't get it and I've heard this mentioned a lot on this board.

 

There is a much higher probability of injury if a pitcher increases his workload from the last season by too much. Generally, teams increase a pitchers workload by about 20 to 30 innings from year to year to minimize the injury risk while getting the pitcher ready for a full big league schedule.

 

Gallardo pitched 155 innings last season, so he should only pitch about 175 to 185 innings this year. He's pitched 77.2 so far this year, so we can expect about 100 more.

 

He won't get that much from here on out coming out of the pen, and if he were to start full time he'd go over by about 15. I'd like to see him get sent back down after Capuano comes back, and stay in AAA until he's down to about 40-50 innings left, probably sometime in late July. Then, call him back up to use out of the pen.

 

Villanueva pitched 182.1 innings last season, so he would have been basically ready to make a jump into the rotation. This season he has just 47 innings so far. I'd be very nice to get him up close to 180 innings again this year, so it wouldn't be as much of a shock to his arm if we need him to start next year. He's my vote to enter the rotation if we needed a long term starter. Gallardo is likely a short term rotation fix, so Villanueva doesn't need to be moved back and forth between the rotation and the pen.

[TheCrew07]

I just don't see how he can pitch in the rotation the rest of year and the post season. If he's valuable enough to make a playoff roster, I hope like heck he has innings available. I'm not one for Dusty Bakering our young pitchers in a playoff hunt.

 

edit. Oh my god I had poor English. Sorry.

[rousieboy]

Although it seems counterintuitive, older pitchers are less subject to injury than younger ones.

 

There are some confounding variables with that statement, that while it may be true, doesn't necessarily accurately provide the info it was intended to.

 

Just for starters...all the older pitchers that are more subject to injuries most likely got washed out when they on their way to becoming older pitchers.

 

After that it gets a lil psychobabblie but you understand my point...

[aracko]

I would have preferred seeing him work out of the bullpen till after the all star break for this very reason. Let him build confidence in short burts and not have to deal with the prospect of going thru a lineup two times until after gets a little swagger.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

On a side note, how many pitches can we expect from Yo tonight?

[TheCrew07]

100 I'm sure, that's been his pitch count all year, and Ned uses it for the MLB pitchers as well.

[brettac1]

If he'd got his good stuff working, he won't be in there longer than 6 innings and 100 pitches.

[monty57]

sbrylski06, that's pretty much my thoughts as well. I expect Yo to only get one start, as I believe the next start could be skipped due to a day off. I hope they send him back to AAA to bring up a reliever and keep Yo on a 5-day rotation.

[Crewin06]

Who would be up for Piggybacking Vargas and Gallardo and moving them to the number 4 spot and put Bushy in the number 5?

 

I know its not done to much in the majors and relatively new in the minors ( I think they only do it in the very low minors)

 

But have Vargas and Gallardo start every other time and have the other guy finish out the game or go as far as they can. This would keep both fresh for the postseason and limit Gallardo's innings total, keep him on regular starters work regiment and give him good exposure to the major league experience without him being relied upon to much.

 

The only problem I might see is that Vargas and Gallardo seem to have the same types of pitches.

 

I don't know just a suggestion.

[mikemercury]

We should piggy back Vargas and Shouse, it worked versus the Twins! (I'd put it in blue if I knew how)

 

I like the piggy back idea in the low minors because you hope out of 7-10 prospects, a couple can actually become starters, and the one who don't cut it become bullpen arms. Not that many years ago it was an outside-of-the-box idea to use a 5 man rotation or specific guys for 7th, 8th, even 9th innings.

 

I like the piggy back idea with a young pitcher like Yo because it limits his innings and shouldn't kill the bullpen by taking up two roster spots for 1 job, because in theory most of the pen would have the day off, and inbetween starts instead of throwing a side session Yo (or Vargas?) would be available for an inning plus if they only threw 2-4 innings.

 

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[sbrylski]

I don't know just a suggestion.

 

I actually don't mind it. I think there are many different ways to manage a pitching staff, and the current way everyone does it may not necessarily be the best.

 

It'd be very interesting to see a manager surface somewhere that manages his pitcher in a completely outside of the box fashion. 3 inning relievers, bring in your "closer" earlier in games, maybe piggybacking starters, ect.

[endaround]

The biggest problem with piggy-backing starters is entirely artificial but its there. And thats the win stat. Piggy backing starters kills chances at Ws which means less money in arbitration. So Vargas would be rather upset at piggy backing and given how arbitrators rule, you can't lame him for not wanting to lose out on $1 million.

 

For example, I thought Colorado should have tried something like that before the humidifier. I also thought they should look for decent hitting pitchers so they could carry less bench position players. My ideas are just as likely to work as what they have done so far.

[IIAY]

Here's a hypothetical situation:

 

Yost doesn't skip anyone with the off-day Thursday, so Yo gets the start Sunday. In front of the sellout crowd for Bill Hall Bobblehead day, he has the following line after 8 innings with a 6-0 lead:

 

8 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 2 BB, 11 K, 115 pitches

 

Do you send him out for the ninth to try to finish the no-no, or do you keep him from possibly throwing 130+ pitches in his second big league start and send in Spurling or Cappy to finish it out?

[davego]

Yo has a OPS of 1.667.

 

He needs to play everyday!

[recte44]

I'm not real concerned about limiting his innings, actually. Gallardo has a track record of being a horse, especially in high school. If he pitches 200-220 innings this season that isn't the end of the world.

[endaround]

Until he gets injured and misses a season and half.

[apereira2222]

See Francisco Liriano.

[1992casey]

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Do you send him out for the ninth to try to finish the no-no, or do you keep him from possibly throwing 130+ pitches in his second big league start and send in Spurling or Cappy to finish it out?

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Ned said that Yo's pitch limit is in the 110 range, so I'd stop at 115 and relieve him.

 

If we're dealing with a veteran having an easy time of it, I don't have a problem with the occasional 130-pitch game.