How many pull ups can you do?

[SenatorShriv]

This thread inspired me to check. My roommate has The Perfect Pullup mounted on a door in our our house so I walked over to give it a whirl. I did three from close to full extension. I'm fairly sure that is about three more than I could have done two months ago before I started a light workout routine. Guess I still have a long way to go...

[homer]

This thread inspired me to try some at the gym today. I did 3 sets of wide grip chin ups. I did 5, 5, 3. I probably could have done 7 or 8 if I'd have just done one set. Not like the good old days when I could do 12, 10, 8.

[chuckiehacks]

I just love that this thread is nestled right next to The Beer Thread.

[southpaw121505]

P90X is just a fad workout.. eventually it'll go the way of Tae Bo and 8-minute abs. It's probably a great workout if you eat right, and do everything the video instructs you to do. Unfortunately, a lot of people use it who are really too far out of shape for the program to really work. For some reason it's immensely popular, yet the people who claim they do it still have quite a bit of flab. To each their own I guess. I've found the best results with running and cardio and good old fashioned weight lifting.

A+

 

 

 

Call P90X a fad all you want, but it's a fad that works because the workouts are solid. When I started it approx. 3 years ago I could do about 8 good pullups. I can now easily do sets of 20-25 and have hit 30 at times.

 

No offense at all, because I respect anyone who puts in an honest effort. But if I trained you for 3 years I can promise you that you'd be progressing more than that. I don't think highly of p90x, it's better marketing than it is training protocol. It only works because it gets a (generally) untrained person, to train CONSISTENTLY. Just because someone loses some weight or sees a slight strength increase, doesn't mean it's optimal training.

[hurricanecrush]

You sound like the snobs on bodybuilding.com. P90X is solid... it's not the best but for a very minimal investment, it's solid. If you worked me out 3 days a week for 3 years at even $50/hr, I'd be looking at an investment of well over $20k. For 20k, I better look like Adonis.

 

P90X costs like $120 and requires a pullup bar and some dumbbells or bands. It also offers a simple workout and nutrition plan for people that don't want to spend countless hours developing and perfecting a plan through trial and error... not to mention spending tons of money on equipment, a club membership or a personal trainer. There is also the chance that people will start with P90X and move onto something more extensive when it gets too easy for them or they stop seeing changes. But even if they don't, they certainly aren't hurting themselves... and not everybody has goals of being a bodybuilder or fitness model.

 

I've read thousands of articles over the years about fitness, nutrition, splits, etc. and have a pretty good understanding what works and what doesn't... but I admit that even I have times where I lose focus and get out of whack with my diet and/or nutrition and need to simplify again. If I get confused at times, people that have never worked out in their lives probably have no idea where to start. To dismiss it as a fad is just wrong.

[southpaw121505]

Hey man, if p90x is working for you and especially if you ENJOY doing it, more power to you. I'm just saying it's not optimal.

[PlayerHader]

What is optimal??? That's a pretty relative term to be throwing around like a blanket.

[southpaw121505]

A training protocol that doesn't eat away at muscle as fuel to drive that workout, kinda counterproductive. If you want to get stronger or build muscle, it's not going to take you too far. If you want something that will burn a lot of calories without having to do any homework on setting up your own routine, then it's fine.

[DocBrewPack]

A training protocol that doesn't eat away at muscle as fuel to drive that workout, kinda counterproductive. If you want to get stronger or build muscle, it's not going to take you too far. If you want something that will burn a lot of calories without having to do any homework on setting up your own routine, then it's fine.

I completely disagree with that, I have been doing a lot of reading up on nutrition/working out lately. Although I wouldn’t call myself an expert by any stretch, P90X is set up is for exactly that, building lean muscle why shredding body fat. If you follow the nutrition guide and eat right you won’t be using your muscles as fuel.

[hurricanecrush]

without having to do any homework on setting up your own routine, then it's fine.

Bingo! Many people don't have the time and/or desire to do any homework. And what exactly is optimal? Is it the same for everybody? Maybe the people just want to get more fit and feel healthier and not obsess over the minutia of optimal calorie intake and counting every gram of protein, etc. Some of that stuff is stressful for some people and takes the fun out of working out.

[PlayerHader]

Exactly hurricane. What is optimal for me isn't optimal for everybody.

 

southpaw, what exactly is your expertise? Your last rant against P90X is a rant against exercise and improper nutrition as much as anything. If my ultimate goal was to build muscle and get stronger than I should be eating nearly protein-heavy 4000 calories per day according to the P90X nutrition plan!!!

 

My body would not need to feed on my own muscle to fuel itself.

[southpaw121505]

P90X is set up is for exactly that, building lean muscle why shredding body fat. If you follow the nutrition guide and eat right you won’t be using your muscles as fuel.

What you just described is scientifically impossible. You gain muscle in a caloric surplus, you lose fat through a caloric deficit. The only time it is even remotely possible for both to happen at the same time is while juicing(steroids) or to a very untrained individual. That untrained individual is capable of building some muscle while in a caloric deficit because of the shock the system is going through from the added resistance of the weights. Your body basically panics and feels the need to add muscle to survive, to handle the added load being placed on it. This doesn't last long. The thing is, during this period, that untrained individual could gain muscle through throwing around bags of soil or coffee cans if they did it consistently. If that person were doing a strength based routine, they'd gain a lot of muscle and strength. P90x is better than throwing bags of soil, but not as good as a true strength program for muscle and strength gains. This is why I say it is not optimal. If you care to know what type of strength program is optimal, I'd gladly share one with you. Only if you plan on doing it.

 

Say fat loss is your goal, and not maximal strengh/muscle mass gains. P90x is awesome for this, as it burns a lot of calories, I've said this before. I've had friends that do p90x for fat loss, but hate it. I wrote them programs that have them working out less than 90 minutes a day, 5 or 6 days a week, without dreading each workout. Even enjoying some. This is why I say if you ENJOY doing p90x, then cool. If you do it because you think it's going to get you better results than a sound fat loss program, you're wrong. The combination of being able to get similar or better results, in the same amount or less time per week, and not hating doing it is why I say p90x is not optimal for fat loss either.

 

Are you an athlete training for a sport or event? Do you just want to live a healthier lifestyle? I'm not going into as much detail as above, my point is, no matter what your goal is, I think there are better ways to get there. The one exception I understand is, if you actually like doing it. Then hey, knock yourself out. Good luck sustaining it beyond three months, let alone through the 90 days, but hey, enjoy it while you do.

 

 

Maybe the people just want to get more fit and feel healthier and not obsess over the minutia of optimal calorie intake and counting every gram of protein

 

Not sure I understand your point here. Training and diet are two different aspects, both equally important (Diet is probably more important, but I don't think I'm ready to go into that one with you guys). If you don't want to count calories then don't, I'm not sure how that relates to p90x vs other training.

 

 

 

southpaw, what exactly is your expertise?

 

I'm a kiniesiology major and certified by the National Academy of Sports Medicine(NASM) as a personal trainer. I'm working on a Nutrition certificate through the same organization. It's really not needed for my career, the public knows nothing about these certifications, but I really care about knowing as much as I can on these topics. I've obsessively read about nutrition and training for about two years now, and now study them both formally. Maybe I do come off a bit snobby, but training/nutrition is a huge part of my life and I know a thing or two about it.

 

About the optimal thing, I addressed that a bit above. But if anyone has any specific questions about what I'd do differently, ask. I need to know your specific goals though.

 

[PlayerHader]

Alright SP.

 

I'm looking to burn fat primarily. At 5'8" and 230 lbs I have a strong, thick build from the calves on up through the face. Obviously I am carrying around plenty of winter fat right now as well, mostly in the thighs, butt (which is "prominent" even at healthier weight) and midsection. I feel I'm pretty healthy at around 195 lbs, even though my optimal (great word!) BMI is much lower than that. I'm not concerned with maxing out strength and power, as my build naturally lends itself to maintaining those two attributes, but I do like to have something of a "built" look for summer.

 

Ultimate short-term goal-I'd like to be around 200 lbs by early June.

 

What do you have for me?

[southpaw121505]

~30 pounds in ~3 months is pretty aggressive, but not impossible. It helps that you sound willing to sacrifice a little muscle/strength in order to lean out. It's REALLY hard to maintain strength while in an aggressive caloric deficit. <-- Get used to hearing that. If you don't know how many calories you're taking in per day, I need you to find out. Count calories, all of them, all day. This is important because we need to cut a certain amount of those calories out in order to create our deficit and force the body to turn to another energy source, ideally body fat. Let me know how many calories you're eating a day and we'll go from there on diet. If you aren't willing to count calories, my advice turns incredibly basic: eat fewer calories. Get me some numbers and the odds of getting your goal will go up, I promise.

 

Answer these questions to help me help you:

 

Do you have a gym membership? If not, what equipment do you have access to?

 

Describe what you're currently doing for training. (any lifting, cardio, p90x, nothing, etc) If you are one of our p90xers, do you enjoy doing it or do you want to try something different? Are there certain parts you like, but doing it everyday sucks?

 

What days and times are you able to workout? (I'm not trying to sell you sessions)

 

Do you drink coffee or take in any other caffeine? How much?

 

I'll have more questions...I'll do my best to help you, I ask for one thing in return. Make an honest effort.

 

 

(We're way off topic here, sorry about that op. Mods, if I should make another thread or if this is private message material, just let me know)

[PlayerHader]

Do you have a gym membership? If not, what equipment do you have access to?

I don't have a gym membership but as a teacher and coach I have access to the weight room/fitness center.

Describe what you're currently doing for training. (any lifting, cardio, p90x, nothing, etc) If you are one of our p90xers, do you enjoy doing it or do you want to try something different? Are there certain parts you like, but doing it everyday sucks?

P90Xer. I do enjoy it for the most part, but struggle fitting in the hour+ workouts each day. I've considered cutting each workout roughly in half.

What days and times are you able to workout? (I'm not trying to sell you sessions)

Varies.

Do you drink coffee or take in any other caffeine? How much?

 

 

Not a lot. Occasionally diet soda. Maybe averages out to a can a day.

[GAME05]

this isn't off-topic at all. it takes a good bit of knowledge and education to construct a personalized workout plan, and i think it would be a big help to a lot of people to see just how one is constructed.

 

i've done a lot of long-distance hiking where i'd have to select the highest-calorie and highest-protein foods that were possible (nutrition was still more important than straight calories), but also constructed my own trimming diet when i was in that phase of lifting weights. in both cases it meant reading every label on all the food at the grocery store and knowing what i'm truly taking in at the fast-food places. it seems strange or just a pain in the rear at first, and it does take a little bit of effort when you first begin. but once you start doing this, it becomes second-nature to turn the packaging over and read the labels. it quickly gets to the point where you can tell right away whether it is an appropriate food for you or not. i'm not lifting right now, but i still find myself reading labels on everything as a matter of course. it seems like a chore at first, but considering how 80% of the "food" in a grocery store is made entirely of sugar or fat, learning to read labels and knowing what or what not to eat truly is more valuable than the price of a monthly gym membership.

 

recent studies have started to show that a proper diet alone is more valuable than exercise alone. learning how to quickly read labels and how to even moderately balance a diet is going to tremendously enhance whatever workout a person chooses.

[Blindcheck]

About 6 months ago I did 4 or 5 on the subway in NYC. If I lived there and took the subway late at night, I'd do chinups all the time.

 

I tried to get in a regime where I'd do 100 jumping jacks, 50 situps, 25 pushups a day, but that only lasted about 3 or 4 days. For the person that did P90X, how'd you like it? I know it costs 250 or so, but with all the attention its getting on sports radio, i'd love to try it out.

 

I have done p90X and would say it is very good...It is challenging, but none of the workouts are impossible.

 

I have also done INSANITY and if you want to get your ass in shape, that is the one to do...I did that in preparation for a triathlon last summer and I will give it all the credit for getting me ready that the Triathlon was a breeze.

 

Insanity is great because their are no props...it is all push ups, cardio, body exercises...no weights, no bands, nothing....just using your body to get you back in shape...about 99 Bucks, but well worth it.

[Blindcheck]

Southpaw,

 

I am 5 11" and weigh about 230 pounds...all the men on my father's side of the family are generally over 400 pounds at some point in their life, so I have to work my butt off to stay in shape.

 

I am 38 years old and have stayed in the 220-235 range for the last 10 years..

 

I have counted calories and did so for about 18 months (lately I have gone the last two months without counting calories, just trying to make better choices)

 

I have completed p90x and Insaninty and liked a lot about both of those programs, but there were things I did not like...

 

I competed and finished a Sprint Triathlon (trained for an Olympic distance and it was shortened day of race to Sprint due to oncoming storm)...

 

In the spring and summer, I usually take 40 miles bike Rides on Sunday mornings which I really enjoy.

 

I workout at least 5 hours a week now (usually I do a videos of p90x/Insanity three days a week(the weight training days, not cardio days) over lunchhour, play basketball one night and mix in a cardio session of somekind during the week).

 

my Struggle is with food....When I counted calories, I was probably averaging about 2700 calories a day....my goal was lower, but I struggled with it.

 

If you would like to give me any ideas/pointers, I would love to hear them....I like varieties in workouts, but will admit when I go to the gym, I am not always comfortable with knowing what is worth doing and what is wasting my time....

 

I have a gym membership to the YMCA, I have a pull up bar at home, and dumbells up to 25 pound.

 

I would appreciate to hear your thoughts.

[And That]

(We're way off topic here, sorry about that op. Mods, if I should make another thread or if this is private message material, just let me know)

Not off-topic at all. In fact, I'm interested to read the ongoing discussion.

 

Please continue. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[southpaw121505]

Do you have a gym membership? If not, what equipment do you have access to?

I don't have a gym membership but as a teacher and coach I have access to the weight room/fitness center.

Describe what you're currently doing for training. (any lifting, cardio, p90x, nothing, etc) If you are one of our p90xers, do you enjoy doing it or do you want to try something different? Are there certain parts you like, but doing it everyday sucks?

P90Xer. I do enjoy it for the most part, but struggle fitting in the hour+ workouts each day. I've considered cutting each workout roughly in half.

 

What if I said I could cut your workouts in half(time wise)? Are you willing to try non p90x for a minimum of a month?

 

If so, do you feel comfortable lifting alone? I prefer very little use of machines, but for your specific goal and situations, they will still do the trick. If strength and muscle were your goals, I'd have to get you under a barbell.

 

Are there certain days you can workout in the morning, or after school? Are you willing to get up 30-45 minutes early some days before school?

 

Keep in mind, whatever training system you use, it's up to you to fit that 30-90 minutes in a day. (On days you're training, I don't recommend ANYONE workout 7 days a week, but this varies a bit depending on the intensity of the training days. Seven days are fine if two are active recovery types, hiking, walking your dog, etc)

 

I'll probably have some more questions based on your response, your program design will be easy. The important thing is finding your daily intake of calories, use this week to track them for me. Every day this week come up with a calorie total, you must account for everything you eat. If we were trying to lose 10 pounds in 3 months we wouldn't have to be as strict(although I'd still recommend it) but losing 30 pounds will require more attention to detail. Finding your base daily intake now will be even more important once we hit a stall in fat loss. We could just say eat a lot less and don't track it. You'll lose weight, but you'll be more likely to stall. I'll help you build momentum by pacing your fat loss appropriate from the get go, and ramping it up once needed.

 

Fat loss is very interesting to me. On one hand it's very simple to lose WEIGHT, take in fewer calories than you burn in a given day, and your body has to turn to another energy source(fat, muscle, internal organs- yikes). How you go about losing primarily fat and not muscle is a bit more complex. You almost have to trick the body into thinking it's ok to burn those fat stores. Your body likes to keep fat, it doesn't know that your planning a nice steak dinner to fuel it up, having that fat there is it's insurance policy to fuel your survival once a famine hits. The trick is to show your body that you're getting enough food to survive and that those extra fat stores are not neccessary for survival. This is where the metabolism talk you hear about comes into play. If you eat too FEW calories your metabolism will slow down so it's not burning through your food/fat as fast. It's less likely to resort to fat stores for energy because it's burning less energy(calories...or food, fat, muscle, organs). Fat is just stored calories that your body can burn for energy when there arent enough calories from food present. The unfair thing is that if you eat too much, your body WILL store the surplus as fat. If you eat too little, your body MIGHT burn fat as energy, no fair hey?

 

^Very long winded reason why knowing your caloric intake is important. We want to cut out a very specific amount each day, and that amount will change over time.

 

 

GAME05:

 

GREAT points about diet and counting calories. It's not fun, it's a pain in the butt, but in my opinion it's a neccessary evil. The thing is, you will get better over time at knowing about how much calories are in certain things. I've gotten to the point where I can add it in my head what I've consumed and I can get really close to my target every day. But, for a long time it was pen and paper for me. It sucks, but results are fun.

[southpaw121505]

my Struggle is with food....When I counted calories, I was probably averaging about 2700 calories a day....my goal was lower, but I struggled with it.

 

If you would like to give me any ideas/pointers, I would love to hear them....I like varieties in workouts, but will admit when I go to the gym, I am not always comfortable with knowing what is worth doing and what is wasting my time....

 

I have a gym membership to the YMCA, I have a pull up bar at home, and dumbells up to 25 pound.

 

I would appreciate to hear your thoughts.

It sounds like you're doing a great job on your own, but from what you gave me this is what I'd do:

-Calories down to 2500, given your stats and activity level I'd venture that you're still pretty close to your maintenance calories. Get it down to 2500 a day for now. Track your weight if possible, ideally your bodyfat too but I understand this is more difficult. I have a scale from walmart that gives weight and bodyfat, not the most accurate compared to calipers, but it does note a change from week to week so it works. Anyways, I'd do 2500 for a week, and taper down until you get to 2000. If you want to get super aggressive, you could drop that low on week 2. I'd prefer you drop about 100 cals a day each week until you get there, but really it's up to you.

 

-For training, lift 3 days a week and do 3-6 cardio sessions a week. You can combine your lifting and cardio into one workout if you have enough time at the gym, or you can lift one day and cario the next. If it's practical in your schedule, I'd really recommend some fasted cardio. Meaning pre breakfast. This does not have to be an intense workout, 30-45 mins, you can walk at a good pace outside or on an incline on a treadmill, or do an ellipitcal. I personally love the elliptical for someone who is on a weight training program, it's very low impact on your joints and allows your ligaments proper recovery. Tendons and ligaments are the most likely thing to injure from overtraining, they don't get as much blood flow as muscles so the recovery is slower. Crap, another long winded answer. Anyways, fasted cardio is believed to be more likely to resort to fat as fuel because of the lack of an immediate food source for fuel. And by fasted I just mean before breakfast, I'd better say that before someone goes on a 24 hour fast before their cardio.

 

If you want a more specific gameplan I can give you one, but I need more details on when you can train. So I'd need to know when you work, when you workout, can you workout before work, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[Blindcheck]

Southpaw

 

Thanks for the tips....I will get put my goal at 2500 calories a day...and start from there.

 

I work from home and generally work out from Noon to 1 Pm on Mon, Tues, Wed and Friday. (MW, I have been doing the p90x Weight workout, on Fridays I have been doing the upper body Weight training videos from the Insanity program...one of the bonus CD's that mixes Cardio with weight lifting)

 

I am pretty good at mixing in Cardio workouts, from Treadmill, elipitcal, biking outside, Swimming, basketball and occasionally jogging....I will try to get up in the morning and get in some cardio before breakfast (not a morning person, and have to get a daughter off to school, so I will have to work on that)

 

As for weight lifting.....What I struggle with is knowing what exercises to do...my upperbody has never been very developed (always have been weak), but my lower legs have always been great...I have had body builders ask me how I have such developed Calves...they must come naturally, but I have worked out with guys that are weight guys and while I could never lift what they did on upper body exercises, I could usually do whatever they were doing when doing Leg exercises.

 

do you have any specific workouts with reps that you would reccomend...assuming I did weight training MWF...

 

Thanks....i appreciate you advice.

[PlayerHader]

Here is roughly what I eat in a day when I am doing P90X:

 

Breakfast-High fiber cereal with skim milk and a whey protein shake (protein mix and water).

(alternate meal-one egg with a few egg whites, 100 calorie 100% whole wheat sara lee flat bread bun, small protein shake)

 

Snack (almonds or a fruit or small bowl of chicken noodle soup)

 

Lunch-6" roasted chicken breast sub from Subway on honey oat (lettuce, spinach, tomatoes, pickles, onions, banana peppers and a bit of honey mustard)

alternate-black ham sub w/similar toppings

 

Snack

 

Dinner other 6" sub

 

Snack and Protein shake

 

I rely heavily on Subway mostly because I don't trust myself to cook anything decent for me. I need to spend some time in the kitchen, I know. I mix in some steamed veggies with my meals on occasion, as well.

 

Morning workouts are certainly an option.

[And That]

I do some sort of workout seven days a week most weeks, with a bare minimum being an hour on the elliptical or a 4 mile run either on the treadmill or outside. I've dropped about 25 pounds this year, almost all of it fat (or so my hand-held body fat monitor says), and have a lot more muscle tone than I really have ever had. I lift 5-6 days a week, rotating between a day each of upper body, core, and leg work. I keep a daily food log and limit my caloric intake to ~2300 calories a day. Usually end up with about 10-15% fat, and the remainder split between carbs (usually eaten earlier in the day) and protein.

 

What are the major disadvantages to doing what I would consider at least a moderate workout every day? Before I started doing this back in early January, I had lots of little chronic aches and pains, but they've slowly gone away as I've been hitting the gym almost every day. Am I inviting injury by working out every day? Would you recommend altering anything?

 

How does caffeine play in to a diet?

[T B0NE 10]

You say P90x eats muscle to lose weight...

 

What if I don't do the diet program along with it? Will I build muscle then?