Pujols Demanding 10/$300 from Cardinals

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

http://sports.espn.go.com...rk_jayson&id=6056760

 

Would cover Age 33-42 years... They guy is absolutely worth $30 million/year right now, but ten years from now? In that article, they talk about only 3 outstanding seasons for players older than 36.

I'd offer this:

 

2012: $40.0 million (age 33)

2013: $37.5 million (age 34)

2014: $35.0 million (age 35)

2015: $32.5 million (age 36)

2016: $30.0 million (age 37)

(Option to buy out contract for $25 million)

2017: $25.0 million (age 38)

2018: $20.0 million (age 39)

2019 $20.0 million (age 40)

2020 $20.0 million (age 41)

2021 $20.0 million (age 42

 

Essentially becomes a 5/200 deal (if the Cards take the buyout), or 10/280

 

He gets to say he has the highest value (per year) ever, and gets to say he has the largest contract ever, but in reality (like an NFL contract), there is no way the team will be shelling out that final $80 million

 

$40M/per is ALOT of money, but this is Albert Pujols. Their franchise would be massively crippled by losing Pujols. I can't even think of a comparison to how bad it would be to lose Pujols. Their "plan B" could be to sign Prince (if they lose Pujols in FA), but while Prince might be able to match Pujols production (over the next 5 years), the franchise would still fall off pretty hard.

 

Should be interesting. If the CUBS give Pujols 10/300 (while the Cards won't), i'd say that would be a very GOOD thing for the Brewers. No way Pujols is worth 5/150 over the second half of that deal

[Warning Track Power]

Ridiculous numbers. I could not give one player $30MM in any large, medium or small market. Even Pujols. Put another way, if Pujols were the Brewers 1B and the option was to sign Pujols long term to a $30MM/year contract and be stuck with mediocre to league average players at other positions or to have Braun, Hart and Weeks locked up long term for $30MM combined with just an average 1B I go the second route. I just don't think the Cards could afford to pay their other players like Wainwright when the time comes.

 

If Pujols is signed to this deal, Holiday is already locked in for $17MM a year and Wainwright will likely command a $20MM per season when his contract ends after this season, the Cards would be looking at $67MM per season tied up in three players...WOW! And we think we have problems with Greinke, Weeks and Marcum getting extended.

[dadofandrew]

Good luck with that. If you consider a guy like Dan Johnson (or maybe even Jim Edmonds) to be a free talent guy, you could argue he isn't worth it now, given injury risk.

[trwi7]

No way I would pay him that. Maybe for 5 years, absolutely not for any longer.

[jerichoholicninja]

Please go to the Yankees Al. They need you, somewhere on the field.

[brewtank34]

I remember reading somewhere about a year ago (sorry guys, I don't have the link/source), that Pujols was worth close to $50 million a year for what he means to the Cardinals organization (the article refers to the amount of revenue Pujols brings in by himself). If someone knows the story I'm referring to and can produce the story, please do so.

 

My point is that while 5/200 sounds like a lot of money to many of us, in baseball numbers, it actually may result in less money than he is actually worth. If I were the Cardinals I would do the 5/200 (with the buyout) and start planning now to groom your next 1B. For a player like Pujols, I wouldn't think twice about it. There's no way I would do the 10 year deal.

[sbrylski]

Prediction: Signs for 8 years, $280 million. $35 AAV.

[Tbadder]

Prediction: Pujols signs for 300 million and when god finds out he secretly damns Albert to eternal suffering 35 years before he actually dies. Little does Al know that he has carte blanche to carry out any kind of evil or fun. I feel sorry for him. Seriously, is it ever going to sicken enough people? Nah.

[TooLiveBrew]

The Cardinals are put into a really bad place with this move by Pujols. It's like the Jeter melodrama, except the Cardinals player is still an elite player.

 

Good thing they re-signed Holliday to show loyalty to Albert. He's such a loyal guy!

[Bombers]

I don't blame Pujols on this. The cardinals are ignorant to think he is shunning them from a "home town" discount. What in the heck was the 8 yr $111 million deal he is just getting out of? Big Al has made a whopping $ 105.5 million ($9.5 million average) over the course of his career. Arod makes that every 4 years. He has given them a home town discount for 11 years. The issue here, and for many of these similar deals, is it seems as if the home team doesn't do any future forecasting. They get to the end of a contract and go "You want to make what?" - with a suprise look on their face ... From 04 - 06, you lost the WS, lost the NLCS, and won the WS. Your best player was making $10 million a year. (We pay that alone to Wolfe for his services) ... So why wasn't money being banked from the original home town discount?

 

In the end the cardinal fans will be the ones getting screwed in this deal. They have supported the team by showing up in high attendance numbers for years. And the thanks to them is to dump the face of their franchise. As a Brewer fan, great - Al leaving my division would be good for me, but as a fan of baseball and a fan of a small market team, it goes to show all that is wrong with Major League Baseball.

 

Salary figures courtesy of http://www.baseball-refer...layers/p/pujolal01.shtml

 

2001 21 St. Louis Cardinals $200,000 4/6/01 USA Today

2002 22 St. Louis Cardinals $600,000 4/3/02 AP

2003 23 St. Louis Cardinals $900,000 4/3/03 AP

2004 24 St. Louis Cardinals $7,000,000 4/7/04 AP

2005 25 St. Louis Cardinals $11,000,000

2006 26 St. Louis Cardinals $14,000,000

2007 27 St. Louis Cardinals $12,937,813

2008 28 St. Louis Cardinals $13,870,949

2009 29 St. Louis Cardinals $14,427,326

2010 30 St. Louis Cardinals $14,595,953

2011 31 St. Louis Cardinals $16,000,000

[danzig6767]

The Cardinals are put into a really bad place with this move by Pujols. It's like the Jeter melodrama, except the Cardinals player is still an elite player.

 

Good thing they re-signed Holliday to show loyalty to Albert. He's such a loyal guy!

I feel a bit bad for Cardinal fans if the team ends up losing Pujols, the fans there really do support their team and the very unequal revenue streams for teams not in the financial elite could play a role in those fans having to see a franchise icon leave.

 

That said, the Cardinals over the next 7-10 years and longer will likely be one of the main teams the Brewers will have to try and get past in the NL Central to win the division. So if Albert ends up resigning there, i hope he bleeds St. Louis for every possible last dollar so that it hurts the Cardinals ability to add or keep other good players. If on the flip side the Cardinals balk at Puljols demands and he chooses to go elsewhere, him leaving would also be good for the Brewers not having to face him for the next seven years or longer, so long as he didn't sign with Chicago.

 

BTW, i've asked and wondered this before with other elite free agents, if Pujols really does badly want to stay in St. Louis, why not just give a socalled "hometown discount" to stay? Say he took around 220 million in a contract St. Louis could stomach, but is less than he might get elsewhere. That 220 million on top of the 110 million he's already made, that's 330 friggin million dollars. Would his lifestyle really be impacted any differently by not having another 30-40-50 million dollars?

[endaround]

Pujols believes he already gave the Cardinals a home town discount. Which he did. I don't think he'll get 30m per over 10 years and even if he does it will be likely be done with him getting $5m/year to work with the Cardinals until he's 65.

[JohnBriggs12]

The Cardinals thrived long before Albert Pujols and they will survive when he leaves. This notion that somehow Albert Pujols is the Cardinals is ridiculous. No one player is bigger than the franchise. Aaron Rodgers is proving that in Green Bay.

 

If I'm the Cards, I don't go beyond $220 million over 8 years. If he doesn't take it, I build my club around others.

[Invader3K]

Briggs, I think you're really under selling how much worse off the Cardinals would be without Pujols in their lineup. I admit I don't really know their minors system. Maybe they have a big hitting prospect in the minors I am unaware of?

[greeg35]

True that he doesn't make them a great pitching or defensive team (which they are); but he has been the cog that made their offense go for years. Holiday helps; but not enough to overcome that loss.

[JohnBriggs12]

Briggs, I think you're really under selling how much worse off the Cardinals would be without Pujols in their lineup. I admit I don't really know their minors system. Maybe they have a big hitting prospect in the minors I am unaware of?

Sure they'll take a short term (a couple years) hit, but really you don't the Cardinals won't be able to be competitive in a couple years especially with all that money they would be saving? Or that St. Louis baseball fans will abandon them? Heck they'd probably be able to get Fielder for 1/2 of what Pujols is asking. The Cardinals won championships without Pujols. They haven't won many times with him too. He's not God. Paying any one player such a ridiculous sum will just as likely result in them not winning because they won't afford to put people around him, as it will to ensure them winning.

 

Major league baseball isn't the NBA (thankfully). No one player affects a franchise in the way Lebron James did in Cleveland. That money he is asking for has to come from somewhere.

[NievesNoNO]

Honestly, Pujols is a freak of nature, but I'd almost..ALMOST laugh in his/agents face if they're asking for a $300 million deal. I think it's laughable to suggest he 'gave' them a hometown discount all ready. That depends on how you look at it. Some of those years were arbitration years being bought out (at least one, but maybe someone can help me out). Yes, he probably left 4-5 million on the table for each year after that so I guess it's reasonable to assume he left 20-30 million out there. I'm sure he made part of that decision based on the surroundings, security and comfort. To me he's trying to hold the organizaiton hostage a little bit by trying to leverage what happened in the past. Albert is good for the Cardinals, however the Cards were also good to him. As good as he is, he's going to regress and any deal that pays him for his current ability 10 years from now will be a horrible deal. Heck, in 6 years it may be a horrible deal.

 

Any deal that goes 10 years for Pujols you'd think would include a buyout option. I actually like what TwinsBrewersWS suggested in the original post for a salary structure. It would be a horrible loss for the Cards and their fan base but life will go on after A.P. Everyone's time comes to an end. Albert has quite a few good years in front of him yet but I don't think the Cards will meet his supposed demands.

[TooLiveBrew]

It appears the contract bought out all three of Pujols's arbitration seasons.

 

I can't think of a good contract comparison off the top of my head, but A-Rod for example had base salaries of $25M/yr. in '05 & '06, and $27M in '07 & '08. Pujols definitely gave the Cardinals a hometown discount, but did so in exchange for guaranteed financial security (sort of similar to Braun's decision).

 

Pujols reasonably projects to still be an elite hitter for the first half of a proposed 10-year deal, but it's highly doubtful he'd be worth paying $300M. That said, imo the $300M number is a negotiating tactic. If he can get a 10-yr./$250M deal, I'd call that a win for Albert.

[RockCoCougars]

As I despise both the Cardinals and St. Albert, I'm hoping that they have an acrimonious split. If this happened, both would probably end up suffering somewhat. I still have a strong suspicion that he's going to end up on the Yankees in 2012.

[berniebrewer4life]

I think this short clip sums up my feelings about Big Al asking for $300 million

 

[monty57]

The Cards are definitely in a tight spot, kind of like the Brewers are with Fielder. They probably can't afford to pay Pujols what he's asking, and they'll take a big production hit when he leaves. To add insult to injury, I believe Pujols has stated that he'd block any trade to any team.

 

As a Brewer fan, I like that whatever happens the Cards will feel some pain. However, if Pujols goes to FA, I'm sure Fielder will wait until he signs, and then use the contract as a bargaining point. From a small/mid-market team's perspective, a monster contract like this will have bad effects on contracts in the future. When A-Rod signed his Texas deal, the numbers were so far off the norm for every other player, it didn't skew future contracts too much. Now you have guys like Jayson Werth signing $100MM+ deals, so anything resembling a 10 year/$300MM deal for Pujols is going to make any decent future FA (or extension to a young player) very expensive.

 

So, the Brewers will be able to post a $90-100MM roster, but they still won't be able to afford good players.

[gregmag]

Briggs, you may be right, but when the Cardinals won without Pujols, they won with Stan Musial or Steve Carlton or . . . okay, occasionally you can do it with Willie McGee, but you get my point. Just because a team has had great success in the past is no reason to think it will in the future (cf. Baltimore, and KC), and when you get one of those guys you don't usually replace him easily. Pujols is the best player in baseball. He has an incredibly broad and deep skill set, and he's insanely consistent. I don't think you can soft-sell the downside of losing him. On the other hand, I agree with you that a point comes when you strangle yourself financially by giving a player what he's worth.

 

The point about Pujols' earlier hometown discount strikes me as very sound. Players always get paid less than market value early in their careers (well, unless they truly stink) and more than market value later. That's how the CBA structures leverage. I don't think Pujols' demand is unreasonable within the structure of baseball economics. The Cardinals just need to decide whether they can build around him at that price.

 

BTW, Cardinals fans really are pretty great. I've learned to hate LaRussa, Pujols, and some of the media crew, but people at Busch, in general, are friendly and seriously into baseball. It has been a nice change from Philly.

[Warning Track Power]

I will emphasize again that I think the real thing that can't be overlooked regarding Pujols is the Adam Wainwright situation. Pujols will likely get something between $25-30MM per and Wainwright should be right at $20MM per. With both of these guys FAs after the season, will the Cards actually spend the $45-50MM per season it will take to lock both of these guys up long term?

 

So if your the Cards and can only afford one, who do you sign? I know our situation isn't exactly similar but it's the Fielder/Greinke dillema. If you could only afford one and both were willing to sign who do you sign? With us its much easier to answer, as we already have some hitting in place (Braun, Hart, hopefully Weeks) who can make up for Fielder's departure, so it's Greinke. For the Cards, I doubt they have the bats to make up for Pujols departure and I don't think they have the arms to make up for Wainwright's departure. I can't imagine their budget will allow them to sign both. For me it's Wainwright, but I am guessing the Cards pick Pujols.

[endaround]

The big issue is if Pujols is 31 or really 33. But as good as Wainright has been the past two seasons, Pujols was still 4 wins better.

[Baldkin]

Go sign him Doug.