Brewers sign Mark Kotsay; Latest -- RHP Roque Mercedes clears waivers, remains Milwaukee property

[PrinceEatMeat]

I don't think it's that people want Kotsay over Gamel, it's just that we all know that's what's gonna happen. Gamel was seen as a long shot for the roster without Kotsay here. Might as well go with Kotsay as the 25th man over Boggs or someone worse. I think that's what people like about the move.

[Hate those Rodents]

I don't get this whole, "we have very little margin for error and a guy like Betancourt/Kotsay could be the difference". There's not a perfect team in baseball. Look at the Yankees. They are probably going to be in the playoffs again, yet they have a poor four and five in their rotation. The Giants offense is not even one of the top half in baseball. Every team has some holes that they'd like to improve upon. We'll be ok.

[MNBrew]

if maldonado is outrighted, the brewers (assuming they carry only two catchers on the 25-man roster, and one of them is lucroy) will be left with no other catchers on the 40-man roster. you can option lucroy, and you can option maldonado . . . but that means both kottaras and nieves make the 25-man roster.

 

i'd feel a lot better about having catching depth on the 40-man roster (in maldonado) throughout the entire season, rather than having to purchase the contract of a catcher during the season and deal with a potential roster space dilemma.

I think you want catching depth, period. As long as it's in the organization, it doesn't matter if it's on the 40-man. Look at 2010:

 

Zaun & Kottaras start the year on the team.

Salome (also on the 40-man) goes AWOL, only to return thinking he's an OF & eventually is outrighted to Brevard County -- no longer on 40-man.

Zaun gets hurt, is out for the year, & gets put on 60-day DL when roster space is needed -- no longer on 40-man.

Lucroy is brought up to replace Zaun & is added to the 40-man.

 

Once Zaun was hurt, we spent the whole rest of the year w/ only 2 catchers on the 40-man. No big deal. Roster manueverings are part of the deal and there's almost always a way to make sure you don't lose someone who you really want to keep around.

[MNBrew]

I don't get the flabbergastedness of many about this Kotsay move. Look, it's a depth thing. If he stinks, he won't be kept around. There may or may not be any "reward" to this, but it's at least pretty much a no-risk thing.

 

Before the Kotsay signing, beyond Counsell, the Brewers' bench experience was EXTREMELY limited: Boggs, Dickerson, Gamel, & Cruz all have less than ONE full year's worth of MLB plate appearances. Only Counsell has substantial experience. Now there's a 2nd very-experienced MLB bat & character in the mix.

 

Think about the possibilities should Braun or Hart miss a month or more. Or who you might hope to have pinch-hitting for the pitcher in a clutch late-game AB. If Dickerson's starting because Gomez is lost at the plate again & Counsell's already a late-inning replacement for YB, do we really want to pin all our clutch hitting hopes on Gomez or Brandon Boggs or Luis Cruz (or Randy Wolf or Chris Narveson or Yo)?

 

(Note: I'm omitting from this post whomever the backup C is on account of the current convention of most managers not to use their backup C as a pinch-hitter for anyone other than the starting C.)

 

With Kotsay, the Brewers would now have one veteran reserve and one younger reserve both for the IF (Counsell & Cruz/Gamel) and for the OF (Kotsay & Dickerson/Boggs). That seems like a decent strategy for assembling a roster.

[Invader3K]

"I don't get the flabbergastedness of many about this Kotsay move. Look, it's a depth thing. If he stinks, he won't be kept around. There may or may not be any "reward" to this, but it's at least pretty much a no-risk thing."

 

I agree. It's one of those low risk type moves every team makes every season.

[endaround]

How is this a low risk move? The Brewers could lose another player in order to bring in a washed up vet who isn't better than anyone on the roster and who can't play the field.

[Ennder]

It has been 6 years since Kotsay has really been worth having on a major league roster as even a pinch hitter, he has been a replacement level or weaker hitter every year after 2004. He really brings absolutely no value to a team and just being a vet isn't a reason to sign him. Removing someone from the roster is reason enough to say this is a high risk signing. This is nothing at all like the Edmonds deal and is hard to compare to the Kapler one, this is a case of a player with a really long history of having no value at all.

[Patrick425]

Stevo[/b]]Gamel is probably the fifth best hitter in the organization. Keeping him in AAA is absurd.

I'm not really sure that this statement is true. Are you including the MLB players? I would say that Fielder, Weeks, Braun, McGehee, Hart, and possibly Lucroy are better hitters than he is. I'm sure you'll argue otherwise, but not sure how you can do that based on 145 MLB ABs. I don't care what he has done in the minors, until he can prove himself to be a MLB ready hitter, you can't say he's a better hitter than any of those guys I mentioned. Baseball history is full of prospects that could hit in the minors but not in the majors.

 

If he is actually the 5th best overall hitter in the Brewers organization (including the majors), I think it more of a statement about the depth of quality hitters in the organization, or lack there of, than it is a statement about Gamel's hitting prowess.

 

[Ennder]

We have no idea how good a hitter Gamel is based on his major league stats, you would be much better going off the minor league ones at this point with the understanding they are pretty iffy too. 145 MLB ABs doesn't tell you anything at all about a hitter though, he could have a 1.000 OPS and be a terrible hitter, he could have a .500 OPS and be a great one, there is no way to know yet with such a small sample. But yeah we have no depth at all when it comes to hitting, we traded it all away for pitching the past few years. If Fielder and Weeks walk next year and we somehow don't replace them we become the Mariners offensively.

[djoctagone]

I think you want catching depth, period. As long as it's in the organization, it doesn't matter if it's on the 40-man. Look at 2010:

 

Zaun & Kottaras start the year on the team.

Salome (also on the 40-man) goes AWOL, only to return thinking he's an OF & eventually is outrighted to Brevard County -- no longer on 40-man.

Zaun gets hurt, is out for the year, & gets put on 60-day DL when roster space is needed -- no longer on 40-man.

Lucroy is brought up to replace Zaun & is added to the 40-man.

let's take that same scenario and change the severity of the injury to one of the catchers: it only warrants a trip to the 15-day disabled list and therefore keeps that player on the 40-man roster. the team has to call up a catcher for just a few weeks and the 40-man roster is full (and full of players we really want to keep in the organization).

 

i'd much prefer for that catcher to already be on the 40-man roster and to never have been outrighted--preserving the team's control over the player.

 

somebody's gotta go to make room for kotsay. our most obvious wastes of roster space right now are one of two catchers that clearly won't be with the organization by the conclusion of spring training (nieves or kottaras), and the spot held by a rule v draft pick (egan).

 

given that we have mike rivera on a minor league deal, i'd feel a lot better about cutting kottaras or nieves now to make room for kotsay. if lucroy gets injured, we still have depth and will likely have greater roster flexibility at the end of spring training to purchase rivera's contract than we would now.

 

and, given that the brewers have one of the best medical staffs in mlb, we're not going to have any players go on the 60-day disabled list in 2011.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't get this whole, "we have very little margin for error and a guy like Betancourt/Kotsay could be the difference". There's not a perfect team in baseball. Look at the Yankees. They are probably going to be in the playoffs again, yet they have a poor four and five in their rotation. The Giants offense is not even one of the top half in baseball. Every team has some holes that they'd like to improve upon. We'll be ok.

This doesn't mean the front office should be settling for poor options, though. For example, like trwi7 pointed out, Joe Inglett is still available, & is a better choice than Kotsay. Yet the Brewers are freeing up a roster spot for the inferior player? It makes no sense.

 

As for the Yankees, there is absolutely no guarantee that, as presently constituted, they'll make the postseason. Their starting pitching isn't a pretty picture at this point. Just because other teams were able to overcome their shortfalls doesn't mean the Brewers shouldn't be doing everything in their power to make the team as strong as they possibly can. There's no reason to settle for a lesser roster when you can make it better heading into the season. Signing Mark Kotsay doesn't make this a better roster.

[Funketown]

^Not to mention, the Brewers are not the Yankees. An additional win for a team projected to put up 86-88 wins is incredibly valuable, and makes a postseason appearance much more likely.

 

Having a guy like Kotsay on the roster probably won't even cost the Brewers a single win. I just think it's a bit silly to sign a guy like Kotsay when a guy like Inglett, who is younger, better, and more versatile, is available at a similar price.

 

Having Kotsay as the 4h/5th OF will be far less detrimental to the team than having Yuni at starting SS. Every run counts though, so I just don't see the point of signing Kotsay rather than a better reserve OF.

 

Slightly off-topic, but is Reineke a big "Veteran presence/grittiness" guy. I'm starting to get a bit concerned with Nieves and Kotsay.

[logan82]

I would say that Fielder, Weeks, Braun, McGehee, Hart, and possibly Lucroy are better hitters than he is.

 

I would say that Gamel is better than everybody except Weeks, Braun and Fielder. I could see and argument for Hart or McGehee possibly being better but to say Lucroy is a better hitter than Gamel seems a big stretch. Of course you don't believe in MiLB numbers so why don't we just go ahead and say Betancourt and Gomez are better hitters as well.

[Patrick425]

logan3825[/b]]I would say that Fielder, Weeks, Braun, McGehee, Hart, and possibly Lucroy are better hitters than he is.

 

I would say that Gamel is better than everybody except Weeks, Braun and Fielder. I could see and argument for Hart or McGehee possibly being better but to say Lucroy is a better hitter than Gamel seems a big stretch. Of course you don't believe in MiLB numbers so why don't we just go ahead and say Betancourt and Gomez are better hitters as well.

It's not that I don't believe in MiLB numbers, it's just that all else being equal, I will take a player that has already proven himself in the Majors over someone who has the "potential" to be a gool MLB player. I guess I'm just risk adverse. He was the 89th ranked prospect last year and I'm guessing he may not even be ranked this year and you are going to say that there is an argument that he is a better hitter than Hart or McGehee right now (possibly at some point in the future - possibly)?

 

No, I would not say that Betancourt and Gomez are better. Neither of them have really proven themselves in the majors yet.

 

[mothershipconnection]

I don't get the flabbergastedness of many about this Kotsay move. Look, it's a depth thing. If he stinks, he won't be kept around. There may or may not be any "reward" to this, but it's at least pretty much a no-risk thing.

 

There's no reason for anger over the signing, but I think there's plenty for head scratching. I'm all for low-risk/high-reward signings, but Kotsay seems so low-risk/low-reward that I'm not sure why they bothered. They could give an NRI to 42 year-old Keith Osik and it wouldn't be the end of the world, but you'd still wonder what in the world they're thinking and why they didn't instead make the same move for someone who's either a young flame-out someone else wrote off, or talented but coming back from an injury. Those guys sometimes put it back together and contribute, while Kotsay's ceiling at this point would appear to be about .725 OPS, which wouldn't be hard to get from somebody younger with more defensive flexibility.

[trwi7]

I would say that Fielder, Weeks, Braun, McGehee, Hart, and possibly Lucroy are better hitters than he is.

Are you serious? I'm pretty sure Gamel could put up a .629 OPS in the majors.

[Patrick425]

trwi7[/b]]

Patrick425[/b]]I would say that Fielder, Weeks, Braun, McGehee, Hart, and possibly Lucroy are better hitters than he is.

Are you serious? I'm pretty sure Gamel could put up a .629 OPS in the majors.

Well, we won't know that until he actually does it, will we. Besides, he can't catch anyways, so maybe comparing him to Lucroy is an apples to oranges comparison.

 

He's going to be 26 this year. Getting up there for a hitting prospect. You can blame Macha or Melvin all you want for stunting his development, but the Brewers seemed to be "all in" this off season with no prospects considered "untradeable". The fact that Gamel is still here tells me that other teams do not see much value in him.

 

I'll admit I may be a little biased. I'm just not sold on him and I don't see him ever having a productive MLB career. Of course, if he doesn't, some will blame the Brewers organization.

 

edit: Gamel does have a higher OPS than Lucroy, both with limited amount of MLB AB's. So, I'll take back the "Lucroy may possibly be better" comment, but again, Lucroy is a catcher.

[trwi7]

Who was he going to play over? The only option was 3rd and they found McGehee. If they didn't find him, he would probably be in his 2nd full year in the majors. 1st and the corner outfield spots were taken. Don't blame him for being old for a hitting prospect when there's no room for him at his position.

[Invader3K]

Gamel also got injured last year during spring training. Hard to play a guy when he isn't healthy.

[trwi7]

Kotsay gets $800K plus a $100K roster bonus and $350K in performance bonuses according to Jon Heyman.

 

Inglett probably would've made around that and is younger, better and more versatile. I hate this deal.

[Ennder]

If I looked at the list of players still out there I'm sure I could find 25 of them I'd take over Kotsay. I'm usually very forgiving about these low value type deals but this one is just downright terrible. Three years ago this might make sense but now it is ridiculous.

[Baldkin]

Joe Inglett, Gabe Gross, Russel Branyan, Jim Edmonds, Eric Chavez, heck, even Kevin Mench.

 

All available. Rather have any of them than Kotsay. This is a million dollar risk for no upside signing. I don't understand it.

[Warning Track Power]

Joe Inglett, Gabe Gross, Russel Branyan, Jim Edmonds, Eric Chavez, heck, even Kevin Mench.

 

All available. Rather have any of them than Kotsay. This is a million dollar risk for no upside signing. I don't understand it.

Sigh...I hate this signing even more now. I forgot Russell was still there. Kotsay's going to be apparently backing up Prince and pinch hitting. Why wasn't Russell the choice then? Makes no sense...

 

[endaround]

That's the biggest thing, he is backing up 1B. And he can't hit.

[Ennder]

The White Sox agreed to sign Lastings Milledge to a minor league deal, the team announced. Milledge will earn $500K in the majors and his deal doesn't include incentives