Yanks sign Rafael Soriano 3yr/35

[jerichoholicninja]

MLBtraderumors per Tyler Kepner of New York Times

 

Is it just me or this an un-freaking-believable amount of money for a non-closer, even by Yankee standards?

[TooLiveBrew]

This smacks of a 'Um, we really couldn't get anything else done' kind of move. The Yankees have not had a good offseason.

 

I really like Soriano, but it's a huge price to pay, including surrendering your first-round pick since he's Type A.

[NYChez]

Makes Saito seem like a bargain.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Wow, that's a horrible deal. Typical Yankees.

[apirk]

Soriano clearly only cared about getting paid, not that i blame him, it will be interesting to see if he pitches as well as he did now that he is getting paid for three years.

[BrewCrewForever]

I am guessing if he is good the first 2 years in the 8th inning, he takes over as the closer in the 3rd year after Rivera retires after Mo's current 2 year deal. Then if all goes well for Soriano in that 3rd year he could get paid big again.

[sbrylski]

Years 2 and 3 of this deal are actually player options.

 

Soriano could just opt out after this season if the market for closers is better next year. He could also opt out in two years just to force the Yankees to give him a big extension if they really want him to be the heir to Rivera.

 

Excellent deal for the player.

[MessiahRp]

Makes Saito seem like a bargain.

To be honest, Saito WAS a bargain... versus pretty much any of the other RP signings especially. Soriano is an incredibly overpriced setup man.

 

If I am a Yankees fan I look at this offseason and worry a bit. This was the year where people turned them down no matter how much more money they offered (Wood, Lee), couldn't stop their competitors from improving by running interference like they usually do and running up the prices on the market, couldn't use any of their supposedly solid minor league prospects as valuable trade chips to improve pitching via trade, nearly lost their star, HOF closer to the hated rivals and had to dramatically overpay to keep him, seriously damaged relations with the star face of the franchise (Jeter), couldn't convince an aging pitcher to stay unretired for the team AND still had to give up a first round pick on a Type A who isn't going to be a major factor ultimately if their starting pitching can't go 5 deep.

 

Most of the Yankees best moves in building the championship teams came via trading their prospects (overhyped garbage, most of them but still) and acquiring all stars. That's going to be more difficult to do if you keep giving away Type A picks and the farm system you have now isn't getting a dramatic amount of suitors for any of the players in it. Heck, their best prospect is a DH-projected guy. No wonder teams weren't running out to steal that guy away.

 

Then when you add in the free agent mutiny... I mean sure, there will always be guys that want to get paid and nothing more... but the bloom is off the rose and people are starting to weigh the value of the money versus the environment of playing in NY.

 

Yankees fans have to be seriously worried about that. And I for one hope that bears out in the future and they get to eat some more offseason misery. Serves them right.

 

Rp

[danzig6767]

Wow, 11 million per for a setup man

 

Granted, the Yankees have money to light on fire and the 8th inning can be just as important as the 9th where closers get paid extra, but that's still an insane amount of cash for a relief pitcher. The obvious problem though for the Yankees is their rotation being so shaky that they may not provide enough leads for Soriano and then Rivera to protect.

 

Speaking of setup guys, i went to yahoo and looked up the league leaders in holds last year, guys who pitch the same 7th/8th innings that Soriano will now pitch.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/bycategory?cat=Pitching&conference=MLB&year=season_2010&qualified=1&sort=133

 

I'm to lazy to look it up, but i'm guessing that the vast majority of the top 10-15 of these guys made less than 2-2.5 million last year and some under a million.

 

EDIT-- Why the hell would the Yankees guarantee 35 million to a relief pitcher, but give Soriano player options to opt out, but no team options to buy out years if he got hurt?

[Ennder]

He is no less valuable for being setup than if he were the closer. The first two years of the deal are most likely worth it, the 3rd year is a disaster.

[danzig6767]

He is no less valuable for being setup than if he were the closer. The first two years of the deal are most likely worth it, the 3rd year is a disaster.

I understand that and said so, plus he just might be the best relief pitcher in all of baseball. It's just so much cash for any relief pitcher, but i guess for the Yankees money simply doesn't mean the same thing as it does for most other teams, thus they can spend 27 million a year on two relief pitchers without it crimping their budget at all.

[TooLiveBrew]

If I am a Yankees fan I look at this offseason and worry a bit. This was the year where people turned them down no matter how much more money they offered (Wood, Lee), couldn't stop their competitors from improving by running interference like they usually do and running up the prices on the market, couldn't use any of their supposedly solid minor league prospects as valuable trade chips to improve pitching via trade, nearly lost their star, HOF closer to the hated rivals and had to dramatically overpay to keep him, seriously damaged relations with the star face of the franchise (Jeter), couldn't convince an aging pitcher to stay unretired for the team AND still had to give up a first round pick on a Type A who isn't going to be a major factor ultimately if their starting pitching can't go 5 deep.

 

Alright, I understand that you hate the Yankees, but far too much of this is overstated. Boston reportedly made Rivera an offer, the Yankees didn't "almost lose" him to the Red Sox. He made $15M/season from '08-'10, the same amount for '11 & '12 is not a dramatic overpay. He's the best relief pitcher in baseball, even at his age.

 

The Yankees handled the Jeter drama about as fairly as they could have. The dude was holding out for delusional money, and they wound up still paying him a huge chunk of change. You cited the Rivera contract as the drastic overpay, when the Jeter deal actually looks a lot worse. If the Yankees had actually played hardball with Jeter, they probably could have had him for $10M/year or less. The guy re-signed -- there's no way you can spin that the relations between the two parties matter now. What, he's just not going to try now?

 

And I honestly don't know what to say about it somehow being the Yankees' fault that Andy Pettite might retire. He hasn't made his decision yet, and he just finished his age-38 season. Just silly to hold that against the Yankees in any way imo.

 

I don't disagree that giving up a first round pick for Soriano is a bad idea, but it's not like he isn't also a studly reliever.

 

 

Heck, their best prospect is a DH-projected guy. No wonder teams weren't running out to steal that guy away.

 

Jesus Montero is arguably the best prospect in all of baseball. That's how good his bat is. The reason he wasn't traded is that the Yankees view him as untouchable. Every other franchise in the league would fall all over themselves to get him if the Yankees said they would be willing to move him.

 

I don't begrudge anyone resenting the Yankees; they're the lightning rod for how screwed up MLB's financial state is. But I don't think it's too much to ask for some measure of objectivity.

 

 

EDIT: Whoops, definitely not Miguel Montero. Sorry, Jesus.

[MessiahRp]

I don't begrudge anyone resenting the Yankees; they're the lightning rod for how screwed up MLB's financial state is. But I don't think it's too much to ask for some measure of objectivity.

Objectivity... wait, this is a fan MB isn't it? Or did I somehow stumble onto a national media site where I am magically a baseball columnist. I see far less objectivity towards the Cubs around here but they're the hated rival so I suppose that's okay.

 

I don't think any of what I said was an overreach. Montero has been dangled out there at least enough times to realize they aren't going to get an ace in return for him and considering the long term track record of most of NY's prospects, I wouldn't believe the hype no matter how many people connected to the organization scream of his worth... I guess it's a wait and see... and generally teams want players of defensive value in return. Future DH's don't exactly motivate people. (See: Prince Fielder's trade value as well).

 

If you don't think paying a reliever $30 million into his mid-40s is a bad investment, I don't know what to say. The Sox set the price on that with their offer and the Yankees bit and if the wheels fall off, which they tend to do on over 40 year old pitchers (unless they are using PEDs or something) they're stuck holding the bag.

 

As for pretty much everything else, agree to disagree.... but the objectivity request, on a fan board. It's a case of taking ourselves so seriously that we're not allowing free flowing discussion to occur at that point. I understand the points about clean language and posting in the right section, not duplicating topics, etc. I get that. But if you're asking us to not be fans who by the way tend to use their heart/gut/emotion sometimes in making assessments on other teams (and by the way your assessment is just as much an opinion as my own) then what is the point of this site? To be a sterile environment for a handful of Brewers' fans that are allowed to make their points which are to be taken as gold and for everyone else to quietly nod in agreement?

 

Seriously, it's a MB. Not CNN.

 

Rp

[GAME05]

i'm guessing that the vast majority of the top 10-15 of these guys made

less than 2-2.5 million last year and some under a million.

 

well, when it's the Yankees usual team budget versus a normal team budget, i'd bet the Yankees are spending about the same percentage of payroll for Soriano than another team would for their low-paid setup guy.

[GoudaBrew]

Didn't Cashman say about a week ago that they were going to keep their first round pick - saying they were willing to lose it for Cliff Lee, but no one else? So nice to see the Yankees scrambling.

 

Looking at their projected starting rotation makes me chuckle. LINK

 

Projected Starting Rotation

1 LHP CC Sabathia

2 [/b]RHP Phil Hughes
3 RHP A.J. Burnett[/b]
4 [/b]RHP Ivan Nova[/b]
5[/b] RHP Sergio Mitre[/b]

[logan82]

TooLiveBrew wrote:

I don't begrudge anyone resenting the Yankees; they're the lightning rod for how screwed up MLB's financial state is. But I don't think it's too much to ask for some measure of objectivity.

They deserve to be a lightning rod. They are as far above the other rich teams as the rich teams are above the middle teams.

[TooLiveBrew]

But if you're asking us to not be fans who by the way tend to use their heart/gut/emotion sometimes in making assessments on other teams (and by the way your assessment is just as much an opinion as my own) then what is the point of this site?

 

To discuss & hopefully learn, for me. And while mine is also an opinion, it's based in facts about the Yankees, and not exaggerations to make a more dramatic point. I obviously never said anything about "stop being a fan!", that's just more exaggeration. If you hate the Yankees, and want to root against them, more power to you. I just don't think it's this outlandish idea, though, that you could also either inform yourself more about them, or just not employ so much hyperbole. Like logan stated, there's reason enough for smaller market fans to loathe them.

 

To echo you, this is a fan board. I disagreed with what you had to say & had a counter-point to make. Was I supposed to just take your point as gold & quietly nod in agreement?

 

 

Didn't Cashman say about a week ago that they were going to keep their first round pick - saying they were willing to lose it for Cliff Lee, but no one else? So nice to see the Yankees scrambling.

 

Yes, he did. I agree that this is a bit of a desperation move. I'm really surprised Cashman decided to burn that draft pick for Soriano. I just think it shows how bad the offseason has been for them. One angle on the signing, though, is that it allows the Yankees the flexibility to trade Joba Chamberlain in a deal for another SP, if there's a team out there that wants to gamble on Joba's upside.

[GAME05]

i see this as the Yankees getting owned by the rules they created for themselves. it isn't an offseason without the Yankees signing at least one superstar FA. since Soriano is really the only impact player left on the market, it was as if the Yankees had to sign him for whatever amount.

[Principessa21]

Making angry, exaggerated posts only fuel the stereotype that all fans of small market team do nothing except complain about the Yankees.

[valpocrewsader]

Making angry, exaggerated posts only fuel the stereotype that all fans of small market team do nothing except complain about the Yankees.

Well, I definitely couldn't care less if this stereotype is out there. In fact, the more it's out there, the better. I hope Yankees fans are reminded as much as possible that they have it easy, that their team has a ridiculous advantage, and that their championships and successes are less impressive than the championships and successes of other teams.

 

And I didn't detect any anger in Messiah's post. As already mentioned, it was much tamer and much more grounded in reality than most things said about the Cubs on this forum. It actually seemed like a pretty normal post, summarizing the evil empire's disappointing off-season in spirited and entertaining fashion.

 

All that said, if I had the money the Yanks did, I'd do this signing. What a great 1-2 punch they'll have in the 8th and 9th. This is the kind of thing you can do when you print your own cash.

[Principessa21]

Seems the deal was ownership-driven. LINK

[Invader3K]

Seems the deal was ownership-driven. LINK

That makes me even happier. I hope the Steinbrenner spawnlings continue their meddlesome ways for a long time to come.

[crewcrazy]

Poor Yankees. With that starting rotation, they might only win 90 games this year.

[greeg35]

Making angry, exaggerated posts only fuel the stereotype that all fans of small market team do nothing except complain about the Yankees.

 

 

Are we really concerned with this stereotype? Baseball's economic system is out of whack, my favorite team (and many other teams) experience the fallout from that flawed system on a yearly basis, and the Yankees are the embodiment of that problem. Sounds like something to complain about.

[Principessa21]

Making angry, exaggerated posts only fuel the stereotype that all fans of small market team do nothing except complain about the Yankees.

 

 

Are we really concerned with this stereotype? Baseball's economic system is out of whack, my favorite team (and many other teams) experience the fallout from that flawed system on a yearly basis, and the Yankees are the embodiment of that problem. Sounds like something to complain about.

I don't think there's anything wrong about complaining about the Yankees. My problem is when people think fans of small-market teams care more about hating the Yankees than rooting for their own team. I know it's not true obviously, but it's a disservice to the other fans. So yea I think it's embarrassing to see fans posting untrue information because they see an opening to hate.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Look at the Lee thread where people were happy he didn't sign with the Yankees even though the Phillies are direct (esp postseason) competition. Do most fans of small market teams love their team as much as they hate the Yankees? If so, that's pretty sad.