Is depth a concern?

[paul253]

Milwaukee's top three starters automatically make them a post season candidate, but is anyone else concerned with their depth this year? I'm not just talking about pitching, but position players too. I can't remember the last time that the rotation has basically been set in December. That's both a good thing, because you have guys good enough to know they will be in the rotation, but it's also a bad thing because it means you don't have an overabundance of guys good enough to start. This is why I was really hoping Capuano would re-sign with Milwaukee. If there is a significant injury early on in the season, who starts? Parra? Or do you have to call up Rivas or Rogers right away? It's not that I don't think Rogers or Rivas are capable, but I'd prefer them to get more experience in AAA. Also, looking at the other thread with roster projections, a bench of Counsell, Boggs, Cruz, Dickerson and Nieves doesn't exactly excite me. If someone like Weeks or Hart goes down for a significant amount of time, we may be screwed. We already have black holes in the lineup in center field and shortstop and terrible defense all around. As much as I'd like to proclaim the Brewers division favorites, it seems like they still have a ton of holes and not a lot of in-house options to fix it.

[SenatorShriv]

I'm not really worried about the pitching depth. I AM a bit concerned about the depth coming off the bench. I'm not in love with any of the guys that we have in the reserve roles right now and there is almost no pop coming off the bench at all. Aside from Gamel I don't think that any of the guys in AAA are ready to step in and hold their own at the MLB level. Its unfortunate, because I feel like half of the AAA roster will be ready for emergency call-ups or bench roles in 2012 if their development goes as planned.

[BREWCREW5]

Bear in mind it is still December. I agree our bench is not going to set the world on fire by any means but I have faith in Doug that he will make something happen. If our bench is holding us back from something great during the season, him and Mark A. will bring someone in to bolster it.

 

This should be one of the most fun years in a long time to be a Brewers fan. Hell, I was born in 1982. 2008 was my "golden year" for Brewers baseball. The Brewers are going for it this year. 2011 is the year. They are not going to bring in Marcum and Greinke along with Saito and keep Prince only to have something like the bench bring them down. The only thing that will keep us down are injuries.

 

My guess is that Greinke, Marcum and Gallardo all have career years and feed off one another. Braun, Prince, Mcgehee and Weeks will do the same. I love it. Bring it!

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

Ultimately the quality of our depth will be determined by which players with big league experience we sign to minor league contracts. Those are the guys we may have to turn to in emergencies.

[And That]

I'm concerned about the depth, at least for the first half of the season. If the Brewers can make it into June/July healthy on the pitching front, I'd think Rogers, Rivas and maybe Peralta would be ready to step in and be at least competent starters.

 

However, with the Brewers apparently just giving a starting job to Chris Narveson without a single veteran pushing him, I have to think they'll be in trouble if a starter goes down in camp.

 

To that end, I think they'll bring someone in late in January on a minor league deal with an opt-out. It's possible Dave Bush will still be looking for a job. I hope they'd be willing to give Jeff Francis a few million guaranteed if they have room. Or, you know, Chris Capuano.

[MNBrew]

Bench experience & depth (not to mention any power) right now are VERY shaky. Relying fully on Dickerson & Boggs (ea. less than a full year of PAs), or Gomez if he can't hold down the starting spot, brings back to mind WAY too vividly the start of '09 with Brad Nelson & Chris Duffy (at least McGehee panned out!).

 

Pitching depth, I think we're fine. Position player depth, yikes! MLBTradeRumors.com sees the Brewers as basically having no remaining shopping needs. Boy oh boy, would that be bad! I still think we need:

 

- Capuano or someone comparable to challenge Narveson for the #5 starting spot AND be the in-house, in-waiting 6th starter (which, barring a major miracle, we all know they're going to need at some point)

- an Edmonds/Podsednik/Inglett type signing, ideally for the OF since a young guy (Gamel? or Cruz?) could complement Counsell as the IF reserve tandem; our 4th OF needs to be less of a pure reserve and more of a 4th starting-caliber OF

 

I've got faith that Melvin's got a Saito-esque move coming on the hitting side before ST opens (meaning a solid, out-of-the-blue veteran signing). I'm very anxious to see who that will be.

[TooLiveBrew]

As much as I'd like to proclaim the Brewers division favorites, it seems like they still have a ton of holes and not a lot of in-house options to fix it.

 

While I know what you mean, go over the Reds' & Cards' rosters. You can say 'if [player x] goes down, they don't have a viable replacement' about nearly every team in baseball, if you pick the right player as player x. If Pujols/Holliday/Wainwright/Carpenter goes down... If Votto/Bruce/Rolen goes down...

 

I actually feel alright about the starting rotation depth. Middle infield is where I feel least comfortable, depth-wise.

 

I don't think Boggs is going to beat Gamel out for a 25-man spot. Like MNBrew said, there's really not much pop off the bench, and Gamel would provide that.

[Ennder]

An Edmonds type move would be nice. I think Parra is likely your depth at SP for at least the first half of the season at least. Veteran depth flops as often as not anyway, I'd just as soon have an up and coming player as my depth as some old guy who isn't good enough to hold a full time job. What i don't like is not having either and that is what the Brewers have for depth for position players at least.

[brewers4eric]

I'm concerned about our depth, but I think there will be an additional opportunity to upgrade our bench at the end of spring training. Every team will be faced with roster decisions that may make a middle infielder or a power bench bat available. The forty man roster undergoes quite a bit of turnover in a typical season. While I think that we have assembled one of the worst defensive teams in Brewer history, I'll have a tough time controlling my optimism before opening day. At this point in December, our core talent is solid, especially compared to this point in recent past seasons.

[mletto157]

Don't you think this thread is getting a little nitpicky? As TLB said, I don't think the majority, if any, of the rosters in the MLB could say they have enough depth where if the right person got hurt, it wouldn't significantly hamper them. If they could, than those "depth" players would already be starting for another team. Bench players are bench players for a reason... they generally aren't good enough to start for an extended period of time.

[Ennder]

Sure every team has some players who they are in trouble if they get hurt. Problem is with the Brewers it is every single position except maybe 3B with Gamel. We do not have a full time backup at any other position in the minors or on the roster. Closest would probably be at SS since our starter is below replacement level.

 

The pitching depth isn't quite as bad which is an odd turn of events!

[paul253]

Don't you think this thread is getting a little nitpicky? As TLB said, I

don't think the majority, if any, of the rosters in the MLB could say

they have enough depth where if the right person got hurt, it wouldn't

significantly hamper them.

 

There is a difference between having guys on the bench who aren't as good as the starter and having guys on the bench who probably shouldn't be in the major leagues. In the past we've been able to say "well if player x goes down at least we have player z to replace him"....or "at least we can call up player z from the minors". We don't have any of that this season. Craig Counsell is our best bench player as is stands. You aren't concerned about that? And Milwaukee doesn't even really have anyone who should be considered a starter in center field, let alone a decent back up. Like Ennder said, it's not just if "the right person" gets hurt....it's if anyone gets hurt.

[logan82]

Gamel could probably fill in at any of the corner positions. LF, RF, 3B and 1B. He could probably come in at 3B or RF and we would probably notice little if any drop-off.

 

Pitching we have guys but they are a big step down from Gallardo, Greinke and Marcum. Probably a step down from Wolf as well. I think we have bullpen guys.

 

SS, well the starter current is teh suk. Not much of a step down from him.

 

We are probably ok in CF with Dickerson and Gomez unless both get hurt.

 

2B is where I think we would feel the biggest impact outside of our best 3 starters.(and of course Braun and Fielder)

[joepepsi]

Gamel has played 4 minor league games in RF, 1 in LF, 5 at 1B. I don't think you can assume he will take over for Hart or Braun should they go on the DL.

 

It is a bit worrisome, since the lineup is basically 5 good hitters and 4 pieces of crap (Lucroy, Gomez, Betancourt, Pitcher.) So if you lose one of the 5 for a long period the offense is really going to suffer.

 

Here's some possible scenarios:

 

If Prince gets injured, McGehee plays 1B, Gamel plays 3rd.

 

If Weeks goes down, Counsell or Farris(?) play 2nd.

 

Worse case scenario would be losing Braun or Hart for a month or more. At that point I think they'd go looking for a trade.

 

If Betancourt or Gomez go down for a significant amount of time, it's probably a good thing.

[DocBrewPack]

well if you make me pick a concern going into a season: starting pitching, hitting/lineup, bullpen, or depth. Im very happy the answer is depth. Although you could add defense to that...

[MNBrew]

We have middle IF depth in Counsell (solid pro), Cruz, & Farris. Corner IF depth doesn't have the experience (Gamel, Cruz, maybe Counsell at 3B but not for a huge period of time) but at least there are seemingly viable options.

 

Pitching depth is solid, though Parra being the first option for #6/spot starter is a bit scary given his past 2 years.

 

OF depth is scary (minimal experience in Dickerson & Boggs, & huge inconsistency in Gomez) unless you're expecting Katin, Schafer, or Gindl to step in & play like big leaguers.

 

Granted, some of the veteran types that may become solid spring training NRIs likely won't be signed for 3-6 weeks. But as I noted above, if nothing changes, I have scary visions of the Brad Nelson & Chris Duffy experiment.

[JohnBriggs12]

Starting pitching depth is overrated. No team with a top 3 that the Brewers have has a guy capable of stepping in for one of those guys without a huge dropoff. The Brewer depth in that area is where it should be, starting for Nashville and not pitching here and there out of the pen. I'm comfortable that Rogers, Rivas, and Dillard are all capable of coming up and making a start or two if necessary. If they lose any of the top 3 for a significant time, that's a problem.

 

I think they need Gamel to have a role on the bench and I'd try to get him 250-275 AB's between starts at 3rd, RF, DH and as primary PH. That's basically the role they were looking at for Hinske when they were pursuing him. Get him work in the corner OF spots in spring, because if Hart or Braun go down, Gamel's the guy I'd go to. Boggs and Dickerson should be decent enough. Counsell and either Cruz or Farris are fine. Backup catcher is a concern.

[joepepsi]

I agree with Gamel making the 25 man roster. It's time for him to establish his major league career. McGehee was 26 when he arrived in Milwaukee; Gamel turns 26 next summer. He's really to old to be considered a prospect. He's at the point where he needs to prove he can have a major league career, whether it's as a starter or bench player. It's too late to work him into a role; he needs to come out Opening Day and produce.

[logan82]

He's at the point where he needs to prove he can have a major league career, whether it's as a starter or bench player. It's too late to work him into a role; he needs to come out Opening Day and produce.

He needs a chance to prove he is a MLB player.

[Ennder]

Yeah Gamel hasn't really been given a fair chance at anything though given how bad his defense is you can't blame the team all that much. An average defensive player doesn't kill you while they work through struggles but a bat only guy really causes problems if he doesn't come out hitting.

[logan82]

Yeah Gamel hasn't really been given a fair chance at anything though given how bad his defense is you can't blame the team all that much. An average defensive player doesn't kill you while they work through struggles but a bat only guy really causes problems if he doesn't come out hitting.

I think he is also a victim of timing. He is a corner guy and we have had all our corner spots locked up for the last couple years when he was ready.

[Thurston Fluff]

Gamel's defense combined with the need to get him up to speed at multiple portions are reason's why I would rather he be in AAA to start the season. Couldn't care less how old he is as long as he is ready to fill what ever role he's in when he gets here. At this point I think he's more ready to be an everyday player at one spot than a part time player at multiple ones. Problem is there isn't one open at any position he can play.

Overall I think we might be lacking in depth but maybe not as bad as it appears. Lets face it when you trade as many top prospects close to major league ready you will have holes in the system. The thing we didn't trade were the prospects who project more as role players than starters. So maybe we don't have starting caliber depth but still got some guys whose roles project to what they would eventually be filling anyway. There are more not great but serviceable types like Casey McGehee's than can't miss Lorenzo Cain types now.

[TooLiveBrew]

There are more not great but serviceable types like Casey McGehee's than can't miss Lorenzo Cain types now.

 

Maybe I'm just nitpicking too much, but I've never seen Cain described as "can't miss".

[MNBrew]

I also don't see McGehee as merely "serviceable," but instead as "maybe not great but at least pretty darn good." Maybe you meant it that way and I just didn't read it as that.

 

Gamel needs the playing time, but I think Gamel needs to get up into the bigs and stay, learning to play under the best coaches and with top-caliber teammates. If ego and/or work ethic are issues (as has been suggested before, such as his "I'm not so crazy about playing first base" thing last fall, benign though his intentions behind that remark itself may have been), the fastest & best way a proper perspective is going to get into his head is for him NOT to have regular PT, but having to earn it any way/place/position he possibly can since the players in front of him at each potential position are clearly either flat-out better than him or at least have earned their starting spots through major-league quality hard work and production.

 

I still wish we'd signed Hinske because he & Counsell together would make for two bench guys w/ many years of MLB experience. Gamel does make sense for the bench. But Gamel, Dickerson, & Boggs all have less than a full year of MLB plate appearances, and whoever the backup catcher is will likely have only 50% of his game that's MLB quality (either bat or catching/defensive skills). . . . Maybe, just maybe, that doesn't prove to be an issue. But it'd seem easier to have more confidence in the depth if there were more experience.

[dadofandrew]

Cain is a can't miss as far as he isn't that bad now, just like Escobar, plus defense, below average, but plenty serviceable today, with ceiling.

 

That's what those who dislike the Greinke trade for KC don't get, they got a nice floor, two up the middle solid defense guys that should get better.