The right time to deal Axford if Braddock is a/the future closer

[GAME05]

i disagree and think the Closer role is completely different than locking down the 7th or 8th innings. i don't think the saves statistic was created just to have another statistic, and i don't think the majority of baseball fans value holds as much as saves for good reason.

 

it's not just the ability to pitch well, but the mental makeup that makes closers unique. a blown save usually results in a loss, with the other team standing at home plate celebrating the closer's failure. a blown 7th inning and at least the pitcher can hold onto a slim hope that his team will make a late comeback. a closer's job is unique in that the closer is basically the only thing standing between a win and a loss. obviously we all know that, but i think that it highlights a unique mental makeup that is required of a closer and not of a 7th inning guy.

 

and a 7th inning guy doesn't have to deal with the substitutions that a closer regularly has to face.

 

i really wish i could ask this question to a bullpen pitcher, but i'm still inclined to think that if two pitchers had equal ability, that their results as a Closer could still be wildly different.

[TooLiveBrew]

Why i value Axford so much is that i do believe that it's usually very hard to win a playoff berth for any team if they aren't good in the back end of their pen. Those main 3-4 guys who come into so many close games around the 7th, 8th, and 9th inning.

 

I completely agree with this. You need two or three very good relievers if you want to be a serious contender. There are so many hypothetical situations to present where a 7th or 8th (heck, or even 6th) inning would be a far more important inning to lock down than the 9th. It's not that I'm inherently against saves, or closers, it's just that I'd like to see the best relief pitcher used as a 'fireman', not a closer. If the fire needs extinguishing in the 9th, so be it.

 

Especially in today's game, where managers seem wedded to using their best RP as a Closer (often a setup/8th inning guy as well, if not a 7th inning guy too), it's so important to have another top-shelf arm or two or three.

[endaround]

I've said it before, but I'm really going to miss Macha allowing Axford to go two innings.

[GAME05]

might also be a mistake to assume that Greinke and Marcum will be able to go deep into so many games. if there's a big gap between good starters and good bullpen pitchers, that could mean a lot of lost games. 40 games with a 2.8 ERA reliever in there vs. a 5.4 ERA reliever represents a lot of extra runs given up.

[logan82]

That is only about 12 runs over 40 innings.

[GAME05]

That is only about 12 runs over 40 innings.

maybe i'm wrong, but that seems like a lot of runs to me.

[logan82]

A little more than a win. 24 runs spread out over 40 innings by the 5.40 ERA pitcher would still be a scoreless inning almost half the time. Those runs will probably be given up in bunches. The example you used was pretty drastic as well. We are probably not going to see a 5.40 ERA pitcher in a close game. Even a 4 ERA pitcher compared to a 2.8 ERA pitcher is only a 5 run difference.

[CheezWizHed]

There is a psychological element of a dominant closer, however. Not only is it the "here he comes" intimidation to the opposing team (see "Wild Thing" or Hoffman and Hell's Bell's), but he tends to be a backbone of the bullpen also.

 

Now, that and $5 will get you a Starbuck's coffee (black no sugar).

 

And could he still do that while coming in during the 7th inning with bases loaded? Yes. But he still has plenty of value even if he only comes in the 9th or a couple outs into the 8th. Hopefully Ax can still come in during the 8th if needed.

 

"Closer by committee" rarely intimidates anyone...

[brewcrew1020]

There is a psychological element of a dominant closer, however. Not only is it the "here he comes" intimidation to the opposing team (see "Wild Thing" or Hoffman and Hell's Bell's), but he tends to be a backbone of the bullpen also.

 

So now we just need an intimidating ax sound when Axford comes into the game. Or as the first batter steps into the box the crowd makes an ax chop motion with sound effects. Maybe that will intimidate the opponents.

[CheezWizHed]

So now we just need an intimidating ax sound when Axford comes into the game. Or as the first batter steps into the box the crowd makes an ax chop motion with sound effects. Maybe that will intimidate the opponents.

 

I guess that is more intimidating than everyone turning and shooting an imaginary bow... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif