Capuano will not return to Milwaukee

[RockCoCougars]

I'd say an offer of less than $1.5 million is, by definition, low ball. I think it's safe to say that there is no way were the Brewers offering that much base. Going further, it sounds like the team didn't even give Capuano a reason to believe that he'd even get an opportunity to compete for a starting spot. If that was the case, his odds of making the team were long- what were they going to do, bury him in the pen like Macha did last year (which I'm still angry about). In what parallel universe is Narveson a proven dependable starter? Finally, the fact that Capuano negotiated with the Brewers first and then 'broke things off' told me that staying with the Brewers was his first choice.

[logan82]

I think it's safe to say that there is no way were the Brewers offering that much base

 

I don't think you can say that at all.

[monty57]

I think it's safe to say that there is no way were the Brewers offering that much base

 

I don't think you can say that at all.

Agreed. It's quite possible that the Brewers' offer was similar to the Mets' offer, but Capuano (understandably) wanted to test the market. Then, when the Brewers added Grienke and Marcum, they withdrew their offer, as the rotation was set, and there wasn't much extra cash to spare with the new, more expensive additions. With the Brewers' offer off the table, Capuano probably felt a little more pressure to get a deal done.

 

He has a base salary of $1.5 million and can max out at $4.5 million with 32 starts and 200 innings.

With 32 starts and 200 innings, Narveson will still cost near-league minimum. The extra $1-4MM Capuano would've cost probably has something to do with the decision to slot Narveson in the #5 spot.

 

Capuano's is a great story, which will be made better if he is able to have a decent career after his 2nd TJ surgery. He also seems like a good person, and I will continue to cheer him on. That said, I completely understand why the Brewers went the route they did, and I doubt that Capuano is bearing any malice towards the team.

[cwolf2012]

"I don't think you can say that at all."

 

I agree completely. Rock, you're making an awfully large amount of assumptions here with very little corroborating evidence. It's fine if you want to debate Narveson's merits as an SP and question who would be better between him and Capuano, but assuming that the Brewers lowballed him or pushed him out seems to go against everything said to the media. The Brewers had an offer out to him well before any trades were made, and Capuano broke off negotiations to test the market. That's a completely reasonable thing to do for both sides.

 

The Brewers, instead of waiting, went ahead and got the 2 starters they needed, and Cappy realized that it lowered the possibility of him getting what he really wanted tremendously, and turned down the contract.

 

"I'd say an offer of less than $1.5 million is, by definition, low ball"

 

We don't know what the base salary offer was, but it could have very easily been that high (or higher) but not had nearly as many incentives as the offer the Mets gave him. This comes off, to me, as a business decision and had nothing to do with personal feelings. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think it's a more fair assumption based upon known data than something else more sinister.

[Thurston Fluff]

First of all, I don't think that it's a stretch at all to write Capuano a spot ahead of Narveson. What exactly has Narveson done to earn this lead pipe lock status as a starter?

 

He's three years younger, under our control for three more years and isn't coming off his second Tommy John surgery.

[logan82]

If we could have sent Narveson down without exposing him to waivers I would agree that we should have kept Capuano. Given the circumstances, I would prefer to go with the younger cost controled guy. Even if both can pitch a full season, which is far from a given with Capuano, the difference in their expected performance is probably nil to none with Narveson having a better upside.

[HiAndTight]

Honestly, I wouldn't've had a problem with Doug guaranteeing Cappy the 5th spot. Narveson wasn't really any better than Cappy last year, and I think Cappy could've held it down. If he faltered somewhere along the way we would then have insurance in Narveson. I never saw a problem with doing that, but it's all in the past now. Narveson should be an ok 5th starter, and really we are only struggling to fill a couple starts at this point. We just need to hope that no significant injuries happen before Rogers is stretched out and completely healthy and ready to go. If Rogers was ready to take that 5th spot right now, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. Once we are a comfortable 6 deep, with Parra also healthy as insurance, we'll be perfectly fine.

I would have. Narveson is a much better bet moving forward to be a productive and reliable starting pitcher. I appreciate what Capuano did for us, and I think he got a lot of unjustified criticism in the last year+ he was healthy in Milwaukee, but he's had two TJ surgeries, and there are huge questions about his ability to pitch a full season. I also think at this point Narveson has better stuff.

 

I just don't think it'd have been a wise to promise the spot to a guy with considerable questions when we're trying to put together the best possible team. We did a similar thing last year with Jeff Suppan, and while that was obviously different with regard to the financial considerations, the fact of the matter is that we basically promised a pitcher a starting spot to try and maintain our depth. I don't think Capuano deserved that type of consideration. I think Melvin did the right thing by being honest with such a respected former Brewer and I think things ended about as well as they could have.

[BREWCREW5]

The reason that Capuano didn't want to sign here was that the Brewers' interest was lukewarm at best. He actually seemed disappointed that it didn't work out if you ask me... go back and check the blogs.

The only way for you to actually know this would have been to talk to either Doug Melvin or Chris Capuano directly. I dont rely on "blogs" for facts.

[BREWCREW5]

Narveson is a much better bet moving forward to be a productive and reliable starting pitcher. I appreciate what Capuano did for us, and I think he got a lot of unjustified criticism in the last year+ he was healthy in Milwaukee, but he's had two TJ surgeries, and there are huge questions about his ability to pitch a full season. I also think at this point Narveson has better stuff.

 

I just don't think it'd have been a wise to promise the spot to a guy with considerable questions when we're trying to put together the best possible team. We did a similar thing last year with Jeff Suppan, and while that was obviously different with regard to the financial considerations, the fact of the matter is that we basically promised a pitcher a starting spot to try and maintain our depth. I don't think Capuano deserved that type of consideration. I think Melvin did the right thing by being honest with such a respected former Brewer and I think things ended about as well as they could have.

I could not have said this better myself. Spot on.

[RockCoCougars]

I would have. Narveson is a much better bet moving forward to be a productive and reliable starting pitcher. I appreciate what Capuano did for us, and I think he got a lot of unjustified criticism in the last year+ he was healthy in Milwaukee, but he's had two TJ surgeries, and there are huge questions about his ability to pitch a full season. I also think at this point Narveson has better stuff.

 

I just don't think it'd have been a wise to promise the spot to a guy with considerable questions when we're trying to put together the best possible team. We did a similar thing last year with Jeff Suppan, and while that was obviously different with regard to the financial considerations, the fact of the matter is that we basically promised a pitcher a starting spot to try and maintain our depth. I don't think Capuano deserved that type of consideration. I think Melvin did the right thing by being honest with such a respected former Brewer and I think things ended about as well as they could have.

I'll respectfully disagree. At this point in time, I'd prefer Cappy over Narveson. Though I hope he carries it forward into this season, I have a feeling that a lot of the confidence in Narveson is based on his last handful of starts last season, in which he pitched pretty well (granted you could say the same about Capuano). From my recollection, Narveson got knocked around in most of his starts last season, I'm just going off memory, but didn't he have a hard time getting out of the 5th inning? Maybe I'm just cynical because I've seen a lot of guys like Victor Santos pitch well for a few months and then have the wheels completely come off the following season.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I would have. Narveson is a much better bet moving forward to be a productive and reliable starting pitcher. I appreciate what Capuano did for us, and I think he got a lot of unjustified criticism in the last year+ he was healthy in Milwaukee, but he's had two TJ surgeries, and there are huge questions about his ability to pitch a full season. I also think at this point Narveson has better stuff.

 

I just don't think it'd have been a wise to promise the spot to a guy with considerable questions when we're trying to put together the best possible team. We did a similar thing last year with Jeff Suppan, and while that was obviously different with regard to the financial considerations, the fact of the matter is that we basically promised a pitcher a starting spot to try and maintain our depth. I don't think Capuano deserved that type of consideration. I think Melvin did the right thing by being honest with such a respected former Brewer and I think things ended about as well as they could have.

I'll respectfully disagree. At this point in time, I'd prefer Cappy over Narveson. Though I hope he carries it forward into this season, I have a feeling that a lot of the confidence in Narveson is based on his last handful of starts last season, in which he pitched pretty well (granted you could say the same about Capuano). From my recollection, Narveson got knocked around in most of his starts last season, I'm just going off memory, but didn't he have a hard time getting out of the 5th inning? Maybe I'm just cynical because I've seen a lot of guys like Victor Santos pitch well for a few months and then have the wheels completely come off the following season.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Narveson could be another guy that just collapses this year, or he could actually pan out as a good 5th starter. I guess the same could be said about Cappy, but more because of his injury history. The reason I would've supported giving Cappy the 5 spot is because it would allow for more depth and I really think the difference between him and Narveson is very small.

[crewcrazy]

Narveson didn't just do well towards the end of the year again -- he was probably the second-best starter on the team last year behind Gallardo, and it wasn't even really close. He didn't have a high IP total or go much deeper than the 6th because Ken Macha always seemed to have him on a pretty strict pitch count. He did have a problem with giving up first-inning runs, but at this point I don't think we know enough to determine if it will be a problem going forward or just one of those weird one-year flukes.

 

It didn't help that the defense hurt him more than just about any pitcher on the team...the difference between his "real" ERA and his FIP was the second-highest on the team last year behind Gallardo.

[RockCoCougars]

Narveson didn't just do well towards the end of the year again -- he was probably the second-best starter on the team last year behind Gallardo, and it wasn't even really close. He didn't have a high IP total or go much deeper than the 6th because Ken Macha always seemed to have him on a pretty strict pitch count. He did have a problem with giving up first-inning runs, but at this point I don't think we know enough to determine if it will be a problem going forward or just one of those weird one-year flukes.

 

It didn't help that the defense hurt him more than just about any pitcher on the team...the difference between his "real" ERA and his FIP was the second-highest on the team last year behind Gallardo.

Point taken (though even if he was the 2nd best starter last season, that's not saying much). I really don't have a problem with Narveson as a 5, I like his strikeout rates, etc. That said, I have more of a problem with the depth issue in the rotation, which is precisely why Capuano should have been signed with the promise that he'd get a legit opportunity to win a starting job. Now there is no depth, and if god forbid, two pitchers go down at the same time (anyone from Greinke to Narveson) there will be major problems. I hope that Melvin will sign a couple of roster casualties with MLB starting experience during the next few weeks for Nashville. I don't want to see a repeat of 2009.

[joepepsi]

As a starter (28 games), Narveson had a 4.85 ERA. Not too impressive. He did average 5-2/3rds ip per start, which is OK for a back of the rotation guy. But the encouraging part is his K rate and K:BB ratio. He averaged 7.5 Ks per 9ip and a 2.5:1 K:BB ratio.

 

I'm not a NarvDog cheerleader, but those last two rates are encouraging. It's worth giving him another shot in the rotation, especially considering he was pretty awful out of the pen. If he can minimize the damage from righty bats he could be very good.

[MJLiverock]

Point taken (though even if he was the 2nd best starter last season, that's not saying much). I really don't have a problem with Narveson as a 5, I like his strikeout rates, etc. That said, I have more of a problem with the depth issue in the rotation, which is precisely why Capuano should have been signed with the promise that he'd get a legit opportunity to win a starting job. Now there is no depth, and if god forbid, two pitchers go down at the same time (anyone from Greinke to Narveson) there will be major problems. I hope that Melvin will sign a couple of roster casualties with MLB starting experience during the next few weeks for Nashville. I don't want to see a repeat of 2009.

I think the highlighted portion is the crux of the disagreement. I don't think anyone would disagree that in a world of no budget issues and no other options for Cappy to pursue it would have been nice to sign him for depth. But what I and some others believe is the reality is he found a better opportunity elsewhere. The Brewers may well have offered an identical contract that the Mets did but the chances of cracking their rotation were much higher than cracking the Brewer's rotation.

 

In the Brewer's situation he had one slot to try for, beating out Narveson, who he knows is also a lefty and had a strong finish to the year and is younger/cheaper/healthier (thus far). He wasn't going to beat out any of the other four starters, period. Even with a promise of being given a chance he knew it was beat out Narveson or be in the bullpen. He didn't want to sign to be an insurance policy or a swing starter, or a 6th man, what have you.

 

Looking at the Mets rotation he had probably 2 slots, and maybe even 3 slots open to competion or starts early in the year and greater likelihood they would use him as a starter. It was a no brainer for a guy like him to go there since the opportunity was much more open due to the lack of penned in rotation guys in NY.

[cwolf2012]

"It was a no brainer for a guy like him to go there since the opportunity was much more open due to the lack of penned in rotation guys in NY. "

 

NY also helps because of the ridiculousness of Citi Field. I can't think of a pitcher that wouldn't want to pitch in that kind of cavern.

[3Putt]

To use an old hated description, Capuano is a "battler". When he's healthy I like the way he attacks the hitters. It's a refreshing change from guys like Davis & Suppan. Considering our improved staff and plethora of lefties he's still probably better off somewhere else if he wants to maximize his odds of starting.

[BREWCREW5]

Well so far...

 

Capuano 8.76 ERA and a 1.78 WHIP, 12.1 IP

 

 

Narveson 1.45 ERA and a 1.18 WHIP, 18.2 IP

 

 

I am loving it.

[berniebrewer4life]

Well so far...

 

Capuano 8.76 ERA and a 1.78 WHIP, 12.1 IP

 

 

Narveson 1.45 ERA and a 1.18 WHIP, 18.2 IP

 

 

I am loving it.

Narveson = ace of the staff.

 

Seriously tho, i'm so happy with his pitching so far. Let's hope it keeps up, him as a #5 looks AWESOME right now.

[razzzorsharp]

I wouldn't go so far as to call Narveson "The True Ace" yet, but he is getting closer.