Left Handed sticks...

[dadofandrew]

Benching McGehee for Gamel would be similar to a Bogut/Larry Sanders swap...one has performed in the bigs, one has not, though they seem to have all the prerequisites to someday shine.

 

If McGehee was expensive, or 35, or had any real warts, it would at least be understandable. However, Casey has two "faults," below average speed and below average defense. At best, Mat is shaky in the field, and has had his work habits questioned by several in the organization, including his manager of the past two years, who, despite being a grumpy gus, has rarely criticized effort in the past. Many of us felt Casey's knee was a reason his defense was so shaky in '09, and his UZR number did improve immensely in '10, along with the health of his knee. Granted, a single season is a small sample of defense, but he did appear more comfy, and anyone who has had a bad back or pain knows it affects how and what you do.

 

Mat has shown himself to be a fine hitter in the minors, and dominated AAA for a month or more late least year. That said, the idea of benching a guy who has performed admirably for Mat, at this stage, is premature, at best. Also, the fact Casey is not much of an "athlete," just a ballplayer, keeps him from having value to many teams, just like having a low OBP was not a way to get noticed by the A's a decade ago or so.

 

One of Macha's best lines was that "the players make out the lineup," if you play well, you'd get more time, and the opposite as well. Cain played, Gomez played for a bit, then Lo again. No one ever plays 1B or LF, barring injury, because those guys are good...even if someone is hitting in Nashville, or whatever. No one looks to see what Farris is doing as long as Weeks is doing well. Ditto for McGehee. When Mat is out of options, a decision will have to be made. Until then, he's depth.

[RockCoCougars]

Should McGehee be benched for Gamel? In my opinion, no. Should Gamel start the season in the minors? I'd say no to that too, because he's proven enough at that level- the only problem being that if Cruz makes the team and Betancourt does as well, how many infielders can you carry? Ideally, I'd like to see Gamel brought along slowly, playing a few games a week against right handed pitching at third and perhaps right field if he is going to get some work there. He'd be a nice bat off the bench as well, because the guy looks like a pure hitter to me. At any rate, I think that he needs to get a fair shake at the major league level before he is given up on. I'm a little worried that his handling by Macha ruined him somewhat mentally. Hopefully that's not the case. As for McGehee, you would think that he would have decent trade value due to how cheap he is, how well he's played the past two seasons, and the fact that generally there is a dearth of solid third basemen out there. That said, it seems almost like there is a surplus of third basemen these days, and at any rate what do you trade McGehee for? I don't see a need for pitching anymore, and it doesn't make sense to me to trade him just to fill holes at SS and CF that only appear on paper at this point. Chances are that someone in the infield will get hurt at some point, so it is a nice luxury to have both of these guys around.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Any chance we sign Johnny Damon to play CF? I know it's been two years since he play CF, and he wasn't that great then, and he has no arm, but he still is pretty good at getting on base and is a left handed stick.

 

He made $8M last year, but nobody has signed him yet, so maybe we could get him at a discount. I think he'd be a pretty good platoon with Gomez.

[logan82]

McGehee has hit well in the majors for two seasons. That is a fact. You just don't up and bench a guy like that. If he struggles at the start of the season, fine, then you can you bench him. Until then, you stick with the player as he is still in his prime and cost controlled.

It really hasn't been 2 seasons. It is only a little over 1 and a half. I understand why nobody agrees with my opinion but like I said, McGehee was not much of a hitter in the minors and suddenly he hits way better. I don't expect it to continue. Halfway through 2011 I may change my mind.

[Warning Track Power]

McGehee has hit well in the majors for two seasons. That is a fact. You just don't up and bench a guy like that. If he struggles at the start of the season, fine, then you can you bench him. Until then, you stick with the player as he is still in his prime and cost controlled.

It really hasn't been 2 seasons. It is only a little over 1 and a half. I understand why nobody agrees with my opinion but like I said, McGehee was not much of a hitter in the minors and suddenly he hits way better. I don't expect it to continue. Halfway through 2011 I may change my mind.

Not to pick on you but I disagree completely and the stats disagree as well. In fact it appears Casey's stats have gradually risen as he has risen through the minors and on into the majors. If he falls off a cliff, I'll eat my words but come on..."not much of a hitter in the minors" is blatant bias.

 

 

[Invader3K]

It's been widely credited that McGehee improved by adjusting his batting stance. I would say he has one of the best strokes on the team. I can't remember where, but I recall reading a really informative write up about him from about a year. Wish I could remember who wrote it.

[UeckerPowell]

Logan you might want to check out this article from Jason Grey on the adjustments McGehee made in 2008.

[Invader3K]

Logan you might want to check out this article from Jason Grey on the adjustments McGehee made in 2008.

Wow, this is exactly the article I was referring to, and you posted it a minute later. Guess we're on the same wave length.

[logan82]

Warning Track Power wrote:N

ot to pick on you but I disagree completely and the stats disagree as well. In fact it appears Casey's stats have gradually risen as he has risen through the minors and on into the majors. If he falls off a cliff, I'll eat my words but come on..."not much of a hitter in the minors" is blatant bias.

Of course he improved after repeatng AAA a few times. Most players improve after repeating a level. You guys disagree with me. I am fine with that. I have heard about his changed stance. I never said McGehee would "fall off a cliff." You said that. I just said I think he has topped out his talent and Gamel has the potential to be better.

 

If he struggles at the start of the season, fine, then you can you bench him.

I don't follow this logic. I have some sort of vandetta against McGehee but you think we should bench him if he struggles a bit? If you think it is so illogical that Gamel could be better than McGehee why would you bench McGehee just because he struggles?

 

I am going to agree to disagree with you fellas. I think McGehee is a very popular player and I don't see the point in further discussion based on how my opinion has been recieved. I have obviously taken a very unpopular stance. I am ok with that but I don't think this discussion is productive.

[Mr Southpaw]

Dado says,

 

"Lopez is worse than Betancourt at SS, using UZR. Harris has started 3 games at SS in his career. Cruz makes Betancourt look like Cal Ripken offensively."

 

This thread is about a left handed stick. I said SS in a pinch. That means almost never.

 

Harris can fill a lot of needs (position wise) and, in a pinch (almost never) when all else fails, he can play SS. He is a pretty good baseball player. He would be very good on our bench.

 

Lopez, like Harris, would play SS almost never. He would be a good bench player if at an efficient rate of pay.

[Invader3K]

I don't follow this logic. I have some sort of vandetta against McGehee but you think we should bench him if he struggles a bit? If you think it is so illogical that Gamel could be better than McGehee why would you bench McGehee just because he struggles?

 

I guess by "struggle at the start of the season", I meant like after a month or two. Not just a week or two and then bench him.

[rluzinski]

McGehee and Gamel's ZiPS projections are somewhat close:

 

Mat Gamel: .265/.337/.430

Casey McGehee: .272/.322/.430

 

While McGehee might be a bit below average defensively, I am not optimistic about Gamel ever being that at 3B. Talking strictly in terms of getting the most production out of 3B in 2011, I would think McGehee edges out Gamel.

 

McGehee has had 1.5 good seasons offensively and probably projects to be a a little above average for 2011. If the Brewers want Gamel to start at 3B, I think they would be better of trying to trade McGehee than making him a bench player. It's a tough situation.

And for the record, there's always an article crediting any sudden upswing in offensive production to some mechanics change. I am certain that sometimes it's true but I find that kind of evidence very uncompeling.

[monty57]

I think the big point about McGehee/Gamel that needs to take priority is that we will probably need both of them in 2012... one at 1B and one at 3B. I think the best thing would be for Gamel to play everyday in AAA this season unless called up as an injury replacement. However, I could see the Brewers, in full "go for it" mode putting Gamel on the bench as a LH pinch hitter who would get occasional starts at 3B/corner OF. I think playing everyday is good for anyone's development, but at this stage of his career I have no idea how he would handle a year of sporadic play.

 

Since they already have Dickerson, Boggs, Counsell and potentially Kottaras on the bench, I don't really see a need for Gamel to sit there as well. This is really the situation they found themselves in last year, with Prince the only regular LH bat, and a bench with no RH hitters. I'd personally prefer Cruz as a late-inning defensive replacement with the switch-hitting Boggs as the primary RH pinch hitter. Dickerson and Counsell can be the LH pinch-hitter, depending on the situation.

 

To the point of this thread, I think Counsell and Dickerson/Boggs will get enough starts that the absence of another "everyday" LH bat in the lineup won't be significant. It's just up to the new skipper to manage his personnel in a way that everyone can stay "fresh" and ready to play.

[Warning Track Power]

Of course he improved after repeatng AAA a few times. Most players improve after repeating a level. You guys disagree with me. I am fine with that. I have heard about his changed stance. I never said McGehee would "fall off a cliff." You said that. I just said I think he has topped out his talent and Gamel has the potential to be better.

This is the thinking that drives me crazy about prospects. I am a HUGE Gamel guy and honestly wouldn't mind Fielder still being traded (only because we know he won't be here in 2012) before this season to fill CF or SS holes and just giving Gamel 1B. However, I can't give him a position at the expense of someone who is signed long term AND is producing. It's like trading JJ or Vina. Those deals drove me crazy because those guys were productive big leaguers who were still signed long term but were dealt for the "potential" of Escobar and Ronnie Belliard. Yes, Escobar still could turn into something amazing but that's not the point.

 

I'm not saying never give a prospect a shot. But when they are blocked by productive players who are signed long term, I don't see the benefit of doing so.

[logan82]

I don't follow this logic. I have some sort of vandetta against McGehee but you think we should bench him if he struggles a bit? If you think it is so illogical that Gamel could be better than McGehee why would you bench McGehee just because he struggles?

 

I guess by "struggle at the start of the season", I meant like after a month or two. Not just a week or two and then bench him.

I figured you meant a month at least. I am not putting McGehee in the same class as Fielder but we have seen Fielder struggle for a month. All players struggle. McGehee struggled though June(.657OPS) and part of July(.716OPS) last year.

[LouisEly]

Back to the topic at hand, I'm glad to see that someone else recognizes the need for LH/RH balance in the lineup. While the Brewers were 4th in the NL in runs scored, I recall a number of times where they were completely shut down by tough RH pitchers who either pitched around Fielder or weren't scared of Fielder because at worst they would give up a solo HR to him because no one else was on base. Perhaps the Brewers feasted on LH pitching and weak RH pitching to pad their stats (i.e. hanging 20 and 17 on PIT, 17 on ARI, etc., but then get blanked by Zambrano/Dempster, etc.)

 

I believe that a big part of the success of the Yankees and Red Sox the last decade has been not just because they have the largest payrolls in the league, but because of who they spend their money on. They overpay for good LH bats to balance the lineup so that they are equally effective against RH and LH starters. Take a look at some of the impact LH hitters each has had in the last few years:

 

Red Sox: Ortiz, Drew, Lowrie (S), Varitek, Ellsbury, just signed Gonzalez and Crawford

 

Yankees: Teixiera (S), Cano, Swisher, Granderson, Gardner, Posada (S), Damon, Cabrera (S), Matsui

 

That was the one thing that stuck out when I was at the Red Sox interleague series - how many LH hitters they had. Given that about 2/3rds of all pitchers are RH, having good LH bats that hit RH pitching is an asset. While individually guys like Braun, Hart, Weeks, etc. had good years, you have to look closer - for example, it doesn't help if they hang 20 on the Pirates and then get blanked by Zambrano & Dempster - the stats will show they scored 20 runs over 3 games, or almost 7 runs/game. But they lose two of those three games. If by having LH/RH balance they score 12 against the Pirates and 8 in the other two games, they have a much better chance of winning 2 of those three games and possibly all three.

 

Hopefully Counsell can get 1/3rd of the starts at SS against RHP, and add Dickerson, Gamel, and Kottaras getting starts against tough RHP I think the Brewers will have more success.

[Ennder]

It is probably important but the Brewers had a higher team OPS against RHP than LHP last year so I doubt it was that huge of a deal either.

[dadofandrew]

All hitters are going to have a worst month of the year. That's not a slump, that's just math. A month is a small sample, so worrying about it is short-sighted.

[gregmag]

Back to the topic at hand, I'm glad to see that someone else recognizes the need for LH/RH balance in the lineup.

 

I'm sorry, but just to clarify, you aren't suggesting that this is some novel concern that only you and a few others understand, are you? Because LH/RH balance gets discussed a lot . . . people may sometimes disagree about relative prioritization of, say, handedness balance and OBP/SLG balance, but I'm pretty sure handedness balance is one of the most prominent topics in most discussions of lineup construction, here and everywhere else.

[LouisEly]

I have seen very little discussion of it on this board, and every time I have made a comment about it is has gotten zero response. Particularly in regards to trading Fielder - in all of the discussion about that I have seen few if any people bring up the argument that he is the only LH impact bat we have.

 

Maybe it's being discussed in threads that I don't pay attention to or have gone off-topic.

[thebruce44]

I have seen very little discussion of it on this board, and every time I have made a comment about it is has gotten zero response. Particularly in regards to trading Fielder - in all of the discussion about that I have seen few if any people bring up the argument that he is the only LH impact bat we have.

 

Maybe it's being discussed in threads that I don't pay attention to or have gone off-topic.

It comes up in every Gamel thread, which comes up like every other day.

[logan82]

I think most people are concerned with getting the best bat in the lineup. Handedness is a distant second.

[Ennder]

Sure it is a concern but again we did better vs RHP than LHP last year, it isn't like there is a huge tangible effect at play here.

[rluzinski]

The only time having a righty heavy lineup really hurts IMO is when an opponent can adjust their rotation to throw extra righties. How often did that happen last year?

[HiAndTight]

logan, obviously you just have some sort of vendetta against McGehee, or a biased favoritism towards Gamel. Nothing you really laid out follows any sort of reasonable logic.

That's an awfully arrogant statement. Claiming his opinion that Gamel over McGehee would be an improvement to our lineup in your mighty opinion doesn't "follow any sort of reasonable logic?"

 

I think it does, and I think he laid it out. I think McGehee's played over his head, I think Gamel's going to be the better offensive player, and McGehee is a terrible defender as well, so not much concern there. And it's not exactly irreversible.

 

I for one will take Gamel as well.....though I must be void of any reasonable logic.