The Betancourt Thread

[endaround]

No he hasn't. His highest WAR was 1.6 in 2006. His defense has nosedived since then. If he maybe got back in shape but its not like he was more than just a guy who could maybe handle SS.

[PeaveyFury]

Oh, and he gets on base less often than Escobar.

But Escobar had the benefit of hitting in front of the pitcher much of the year.

[RyDogg66]

I dont know much about Betancourt, but reading this thread I am expecting to see Ronnie Belliard fielding with a frying pan in the field, and Royce Clayton at the plate. Is that at all accurate?

[logan82]

Melvin said Yuniesky Betancourt, who came with Greinke in the trade, will be the starting shortstop and likes his offense and says his defense is underrated.

 

"I think he's an exciting player who is still young," said Melvin. "He led their club in RBI. I think he will do OK in the field."

 

Fire Doug Melvin.

[owbc]

I do regret that Hall already signed, since it would have been fun to hear people calling to bring him back.

 

Of course Melvin is going to say nice things about Betancourt and he is obviously the starting SS based on the current roster. The Royals wanted to get rid of Betancourt and the Brewers had to take him. I have no doubt that Melvin will be looking around for another shortstop.

[kramnoj]

No he hasn't. His highest WAR was 1.6 in 2006. His defense has nosedived since then. If he maybe got back in shape but its not like he was more than just a guy who could maybe handle SS.

 

He hasn't what? Been near the caliber of a major league average starter? 2 Wins is about what a major league starter is. I consider 1.6 to be near 2.

 

In 2007, if you use UZR, his defense went from being average to -4. I don't consider that to be a nosedive. Heck that's within the margin of error. We do see a decline in 2008 and again in 2009, but we also see an improvement in 2010.

 

He has reason to get back in shape. He has a $4M team option to play for. And if he puts together a decent season and the Brewers pick up his 2012 option, he's then playing for a FA contract after 2012.

 

Saying he has no hope is just useless hyperbole.

[rluzinski]

He's had UZRs of -11, -17 and -10 the last 3 years. Fans saw him as the worst starting defensive SS in the league last year:

 

http://www.tangotiger.net...index6.php?prim_fld_cd=6

 

He has a sub .300 OBP in 3000 career PAs. Over the last 3 years, he's compiled -.7 WAR. He'll be 29 years old. Platoon player at best, IMO.

[TooLiveBrew]

Beyond UZR, DRS has him at -13, -19, & -21 for those three seasons. TZ has him at -1, -8, & -12. If he's kept around to be the backup v. LHP for the middle infield, I guess it's not that big a deal.

[thebruce44]

No he hasn't. His highest WAR was 1.6 in 2006. His defense has nosedived since then. If he maybe got back in shape but its not like he was more than just a guy who could maybe handle SS.

 

He hasn't what? Been near the caliber of a major league average starter? 2 Wins is about what a major league starter is. I consider 1.6 to be near 2.

 

In 2007, if you use UZR, his defense went from being average to -4. I don't consider that to be a nosedive. Heck that's within the margin of error. We do see a decline in 2008 and again in 2009, but we also see an improvement in 2010.

 

He has reason to get back in shape. He has a $4M team option to play for. And if he puts together a decent season and the Brewers pick up his 2012 option, he's then playing for a FA contract after 2012.

 

Saying he has no hope is just useless hyperbole.

An improvement over being bad the previous two years. Don't sugarcoat the numbers, he has been a below average defender and that has been backed up by other accounts.

[rluzinski]

Looking for trends in yearly UZR results is like trying to look for batting trends in 200 AB increments.

[kramnoj]

Don't sugarcoat the numbers, he has been a below average defender and that has been backed up by other accounts.

 

Sugarcoat? Where? You are seeing something that doesn't exist. I made a statement based on the available evidence. I was showing that his defense did not take a nosedive. If you find a place where I said that I expect him to be good defensively in 2011, please let me know.

[logan82]

No he hasn't. His highest WAR was 1.6 in 2006. His defense has nosedived since then. If he maybe got back in shape but its not like he was more than just a guy who could maybe handle SS.

 

He hasn't what? Been near the caliber of a major league average starter? 2 Wins is about what a major league starter is. I consider 1.6 to be near 2.

 

In 2007, if you use UZR, his defense went from being average to -4. I don't consider that to be a nosedive. Heck that's within the margin of error. We do see a decline in 2008 and again in 2009, but we also see an improvement in 2010.

 

He has reason to get back in shape. He has a $4M team option to play for. And if he puts together a decent season and the Brewers pick up his 2012 option, he's then playing for a FA contract after 2012.

 

Saying he has no hope is just useless hyperbole.

An improvement over being bad the previous two years. Don't sugarcoat the numbers, he has been a below average defender and that has been backed up by other accounts.

Betancourt lost weight before the 2009 season as well. Yup he still stunk.

 

Upon hearing that Betancourt had dropped some weight and increased his

workout program in the offseason, there was some hope in Mariner camps

regarding Betancourt's production. Regardless of what Betancourt did in

the offseason, it didn't help anything. A .270 wOBA and a staggering

-8.3 UZR in only 63 games at SS put Betancourt at a team-killing -0.8

wins above replacement for the season.

[kramnoj]

Betancourt lost weight before the 2009 season as well.

 

Losing weight isn't the only way that one can show they are motivated, and I haven't said that it is. It might be a coincidence that Betancourt's worst seasons have been on losing teams and he has performed better on teams that are winning or close to .500. It could be just the way he has aged. But I don't think it's nearly the slam dunk total loss that so many here do.

[Baldkin]

As Uke says, Hope Springs Attourney.

 

But having him on the team without a solid second option would be like going into spring training with Jeff Suppan, Doug Davis and Dave Bush filling out your 3-5 spots in your rotation.... oh wait... we tried that already.

[Team Canada]

Spring Hopes Eterny.

[gregmag]

There is absolutely no tangible reason to believe that he'll be an adequate piece of what this team is now trying to be -- a championship-caliber team. We're already going with a young catcher who may or may not hit much and a marginal CF platoon. Now, I'm okay with both of those things, and the second one could change; and sure, Betancourt could have everything break right for him and be nearly average. But there are probably ten guys spinning their wheels in the high minors who could be had for not much and who would project to do what Betancourt will probably do (and no, I don't know who they are, because I'm not informed enough; but that's why they call Betancourt's likely contribution "replacement level"). If at all possible, he needs to be relegated to plan B status.

 

BTW, I think DM took him because the Royals wanted to dump his salary and he's technically a major-league shortstop. At least this way, when DM goes shopping for a better option, teams won't try to mug him on the ground that he has nobody.

[logan82]

Betancourt is a MLB SS like Kendall is a MLB catcher.

[TooLiveBrew]

By sheer grit & MMA fighting ability?

[PeaveyFury]

From Tom's latest blog:

Betancourt, who made 18 errors in 151 games, isn’t known for his defense and doesn’t grade out particularly well in certain categories, including range. But those who watch him regularly say he can handle the position as well as former Brewers shortstop J.J. Hardy.

 

Um, really?

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/112165619.html

[logan82]

By sheer grit & MMA fighting ability?

Crap, I forgot about the grit and scariness of Kendall. I guess Kendall is more of a MLB player than Bentacourt.

 

Betancourt, who made 18 errors in 151 games, isn’t known for his

defense and doesn’t grade out particularly well in certain categories,

including range. But those who watch him regularly say he can handle the

position as well as former Brewers shortstop J.J. Hardy.

Saw that as well. The JJ Hardy misconceptions still persist.

[TooLiveBrew]

But those who watch him regularly say he can handle the position as well as former Brewers shortstop J.J. Hardy.

 

2010 Fan Scouting Report

 Ovr. React./Inst. Accel. Spd. Hands Release/Ftwrk. Arm Str. Arm Acc. Hardy: 68 75 64 47 70 75 75 66 Betancourt: 34 19 15 30 27 32 68 46

Initially, I wanted to provide a larger sample since not many fans filled out forms for the Twins or Royals in '10. But honestly the Betancourt '10 grades are basically what he got in '09 & 08... and if anything, the Hardy grades are underselling his arm by quite a bit. So, "those who watch him regularly" don't think Betancourt should be in the field, let alone that he's as good as J.J.

[Tbadder]

Count me as one of those who thinks we must do everything we can to keep him out of the line up against righties. I can't believe a replacement level player wouldn't be better.

[logan82]

Count me as one of those who thinks we must do everything we can to keep him out of the line up against righties. I can't believe a replacement level player wouldn't be better.

I am actually more concerned with Bentacourt playing in the field than batting.

[tdeggie]

But those who watch him regularly say he can handle the position as well as former Brewers shortstop J.J. Hardy.

 

2010 Fan Scouting Report

 Ovr. React./Inst. Accel. Spd. Hands Release/Ftwrk. Arm Str. Arm Acc. Hardy: 68 75 64 47 70 75 75 66 Betancourt: 34 19 15 30 27 32 68 46

Initially, I wanted to provide a larger sample since not many fans filled out forms for the Twins or Royals in '10. But honestly the Betancourt '10 grades are basically what he got in '09 & 08... and if anything, the Hardy grades are underselling his arm by quite a bit. So, "those who watch him regularly" don't think Betancourt should be in the field, let alone that he's as good as J.J.

TooLiveBrew:

 

Could you find the numbers on different players that are free agents, such as Renteria and Cabrera in particular since many people have been calling them in as possible replacements in the Greinke thread. Thanks in advance if you could.

 

tdeggie

[logan82]

TooLiveBrew:

 

Could you find the numbers on different players that are free agents, such as Renteria and Cabrera in particular since many people have been calling them in as possible replacements in the Greinke thread. Thanks in advance if you could.

 

tdeggie

http://forum.brewerfan.net/search.php?keywords=682252/t/The-Betancourt-Thread.html#reply-682252