Alternatives for shortstop?

[PeaveyFury]

Everett signed a deal with Cleveland last week, so he's off the market.

[Warning Track Power]

I think most of us are assuming that Betancourt will be gone after 2011. If so who plays SS in 2012? We don't have a prospect ready, so that means a trade or free agent. Who's going to be available?

[PrinceEatMeat]

I think most of us are assuming that Betancourt will be gone after 2011. If so who plays SS in 2012? We don't have a prospect ready, so that means a trade or free agent. Who's going to be available?

Reyes, Rollins, Bartlett, Infante, and Scutaro should all be free agents.

[brosto1]

I would not mind seeing a deal with Washington involving Danny Espinosa. There have been reports this winter that he is available. He was recently rated by BA as the Nats best defensive infielder and best infield arm. He has some pop and I would think is capable of posting an offensive line as good or better than Betancourt. The Nats are looking for pitching and first baseman. Perhaps some deal centered around Espinosa and Gamel could work. I would hate to deal Gamel, as I still believe he will a good MLB hitter and would be good for 350-400 AB this year. I just think it is a shame to have quality pitching and then surround it with poor defense.

[Warning Track Power]

If we deal Gamel we then create another hole next year when Prince is gone. Our organizational depth has taken a severe hit with the deals for CC, Marcum and Greinke. Gamel will stay unless he is part of a bigger package that fills multiple hole.

 

As for the free agents, I would love to see Reyes in Milwaukee. He is one of my favorite players to watch. I doubt we can afford to sign him though if we are focused on resigning Weeks, Marcum and Greinke.He's already making $11MM this season and I can see someone giving him a 4yr/$60MM deal which is waaaaaaaaaay more than we should consider. Rollins is more of an option if he could be had on a 4yr/$32MM deal but he will also be 33 on Opening Day 2012.

 

It looks like slim pickings.

[paulmolitor4]

I would not mind seeing a deal with Washington involving Danny Espinosa. There have been reports this winter that he is available. He was recently rated by BA as the Nats best defensive infielder and best infield arm. He has some pop and I would think is capable of posting an offensive line as good or better than Betancourt. The Nats are looking for pitching and first baseman. Perhaps some deal centered around Espinosa and Gamel could work. I would hate to deal Gamel, as I still believe he will a good MLB hitter and would be good for 350-400 AB this year. I just think it is a shame to have quality pitching and then surround it with poor defense.

I love Espinosa as a player, and if he is indeed available, the Brewers should go after him. Very good glove. Good power. Good speed. Downsides are he strikes out a little much and OBP will probably be lower than desired (.337 in minors last season). He would be a definite upgrade over Betancourt, and cost-controlled for several years. If you have never seen him play, go check out some of his highlights vids on his player page on mlb.com. http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?roster_year=2010&player_id=457787&c_id=was

 

[greeg35]

I'd be OK with dealing Gamel (or less likely; but for me more desirably McGehee) for an upgrade at short this year. We can worry about first next year as it is a relatively easy position to find a decent stopgap at. Our hole at short is glaring and needs immediate attention.

[paulmolitor4]

Actually this link will get you straight to all of his videos on mlb.com from last season. http://mlb.mlb.com/search/media.jsp?player_id=457787

[GoudaBrew]

Not to get too off topic here, but if Reyes proves he's healthy and has a year like he's had in 2006-2008, he's going to break the bank. He's Carl Crawford except he's younger and plays above average defense at SS.

 

We have two positional uncertainties right now - CF and SS. I'm more comfortable with what we have in center and if the Brewers look to make an upgrade at one of those two positions I hope it's at SS. A Counsell/Yuni platoon might be OK on paper, but there is a lot of uncertainty given Counsell's age and Yuni's inability to field or hit enough to balance out his fielding. A Renteria or Orlando Cabrera signing would look good to me.

[RockCoCougars]

I don't think that panic is warranted in this situation, mostly because the cupboard of shortstops is bare. I think you wait until March and see how Betancourt and Cruz look, despite the advanced metrics or whatever, I'm willing to give these two a shot. If you are weeks into camp and shortstop appears to be a black hole you may get lucky with someone getting released after being caught up in a numbers game or surpassed by the hot prosect. This is a fairly extreme example of this, but back in Spring '92, the Brewers had black holes at both SS and 3B after Sheffield was dumped and Spiers got hurt. Next thing you know, Kevin Seitzer is released by the Royals and Pat Listach is playing out of his mind. Despite having a terrible infield situation on paper in mid March, the Crew won 92 that year.

[paulmolitor4]

I don't think that panic is warranted in this situation, mostly because the cupboard of shortstops is bare. I think you wait until March and see how Betancourt and Cruz look, despite the advanced metrics or whatever, I'm willing to give these two a shot. If you are weeks into camp and shortstop appears to be a black hole you may get lucky with someone getting released after being caught up in a numbers game or surpassed by the hot prosect. This is a fairly extreme example of this, but back in Spring '92, the Brewers had black holes at both SS and 3B after Sheffield was dumped and Spiers got hurt. Next thing you know, Kevin Seitzer is released by the Royals and Pat Listach is playing out of his mind. Despite having a terrible infield situation on paper in mid March, the Crew won 92 that year.

Maybe. But a thread about how we should just stand pat at SS for now would be kind of boring. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

[brosto1]

Espinosa plays a premium position, Gamel does not. The Brewers would have a hole to fill at 1B/RF next year rather than SS for the next 6 years. I would take the drop in offensive production from Gamel to Espinosa in future years if it means having a good defensive SS from 2011 into the future. As a bonus Espinosa does have more pop than Betancourt and isn't allergic to taking pitches and drawing a walk.

[greeg35]

Sure there's a chance someone could come out of nowhere and be good; but we didn't leave the rotation to chance and I'm glad. We've gone all-out to fill the hardest holes to fill in the rotation. I just can't see leaving a position like shortstop in the hands of Betancourt, Counsell, and Cruz knowing we will get bad offense AND bad defense from Betancourt, that Counsell is 41 years old, and that Cruz is unproven. It could greatly hurt our team's chances of success during (as things stand) a very short window of opportunity.

[RockCoCougars]

To me, both shortstop and center field are defensive positions. I'm confident that Gomez can man center adequately and though I haven't seen him much- from what I've read, Cruz seems to be average to slightly above defensively. Those would be my 'leans' right now. Escobar was downright brutal last season in basically all aspects of the game, I don't think that it's a stretch that Cruz can outperform that performance by a bit.

[Warning Track Power]

I'd prefer Cruz over Betancourt right now. But man it would be hard for me to have such unlikeable players at both CF and SS; Gomez because of his 3-run HR staredown when we were losing 15-0 in Minnesota last year and Cruz who claimed Macha was a racist.

[greeg35]

In 9 minor league seasons, Cruz has hit a slash line of .290/.375/.665, last year he hit .309/.414/.723 at AAA. I think what Escobar did last year is about the ceiling of what we could expect from Cruz. Its tough to know defensively about Cruz (all I can find are high error totals from last year); but Escobar improved as the year went on and was very solid toward the end. Seems like people (not necessarily you, Cougars) are getting a skewed perspective by the fact that Cruz is destroying winter ball while Escobar struggles.

I guess its a long way of saying I have no reason to trust that Cruz would be adequate this year.

[endaround]

Adequate means a 1 win player. The Brewers don't have the talent or money to bring in a 3 win SS or even a solid 2 win guy. The guys out there for under $2m are 1.5 to 2 win guys. They are likely a better bet then Cruz but Cruz vs Betancourt tens to lean towards Cruz since Cruz has been deemed average defensively at short.

[RockCoCougars]

Hopefully, Cruz continues his winter ball tear and goes all '92 Listach on us next year. Listach had a .668 OPS in AA and AAA in '91. He was quite a bit younger at that point than Cruz though.

[greeg35]

I agree that in Cruz vs Betancourt, I'll take Cruz; but that's not saying much, and I have a feeling the brewers will lean Betancourt. Also, we've already had our Listache this decade...his name is Casey McGehee http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Wait, that was last decade maybe.

[southpaw121505]

Espinosa plays a premium position, Gamel does not. The Brewers would have a hole to fill at 1B/RF next year rather than SS for the next 6 years. I would take the drop in offensive production from Gamel to Espinosa in future years if it means having a good defensive SS from 2011 into the future. As a bonus Espinosa does have more pop than Betancourt and isn't allergic to taking pitches and drawing a walk.

I had Espinosa on my long post before I lost it, but I didn't add him to my list because I assumed he was starting at 2nd for Wash. I'd be all over one of Espinosa or Desmond, I didn't they would be realistic targets though.

 

[yoshii8]

A few other guys who might be available are Jeff Keppinger from the Astros, who is available for trade and Chin-lung Hu from the Dodgers who is out of options. I don't think Keppinger is a very good defender, but Hu was once a top prospect that might be worth taking a flyer on.

[NievesNoNO]

yoshii8[/b]]A few other guys who might be available are Jeff Keppinger from the Astros, who is available for trade and Chin-lung Hu from the Dodgers who is out of options. I don't think Keppinger is a very good defender, but Hu was once a top prospect that might be worth taking a flyer on.

Chin-lung Hu, from my limited research, would look to be a nice fit. Kind of an all glove and not much bat type, but I don't really care about the bat. The Crew's offense is fine as is. If Betancourt's defense is as poor as suggested and he has a weak attitude I don't think that will instill much confidence in our staff when they are looking to force a ground ball and turn two.

 

Found a small write up on him at the Hardball times here for those in the same boat as me who haven't heard of him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[reillymcshane]

I like the suggestions of guys like Chin-lung Hu.

 

Maybe he's not the answer, but I'd rather take a risk on a guy like Hu and gamble he puts up numbers (both in the field and at the plate) that exceed Escobar's 2010. Not that he will be better than Escobar in the long run, but as good or better than last year. In Bettencourt, the only thing he seems to have is a little pop (16 HRs last year), but he fails pretty much everywhere else - especially defense, which is something I think we should make sure the SS spot can provide next year.

 

I hope the team considers guys like Hu, makes a play for one or two, and let's them have a chance to start in 2011.

[bensheeps]

Cross Hu off the list. Traded to the Mets for a minor league LHP.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors...cquire-chin-lung-hu.html

[reillymcshane]

Cross Hu off the list. Traded to the Mets for a minor league LHP.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors...cquire-chin-lung-hu.html

Maybe the Mets new front office is reading BF.net for ideas.