So is everyone cool with DM now?

[UeckerAddict]

I'm not trying to say this in a mean way, but I just got so exhausted hearing people who wanted to fire Doug because "he didn't get us any starting pitching in the offseason." I've heard that each of the last two years on a wheel. Of course, big free agents never want to go to Milwaukee, so he had his hands tied. Now that he went out and did what he had to do, are we cool with the man, or is the argument going to be to fire Doug because "he gave up our future to get starting pitching in the offseason"?

 

I've always loved Doug. A small market franchise can die for a decade if the get a bad GM (cough cough BANDO cough). Doug never let us die as a franchise even when we struggled. If you fire a guy like him and pick up the wrong guy, you kill the team for a long time.

[sauveb]

I, for one, am very cool with Doug.

[Ennder]

I think we are going to be just terrible in about 4 years but hopefully this gives us a real shot at the playoffs the next two.

[prophet]

If Doug gets us to the playoffs this year and/or next year, that means he has done better than any other GM we have ever had. Lest we forget, in our 40 year existence we've only been to the playoffs twice.

[mothershipconnection]

I've always been fine with Doug. Those who've constantly griped about him just don't pay enough attention to the fact that there are 30 teams competing for talent. I'm by no means saying he's above criticism, but there are some who seem to think he should be landing every solid FA or player on the trade table, as if they know that the player said he'd come here for the same or less, and the team trading the player offered to trade him to us for a reasonable return. Some players would just rather play somewhere else, and some GM's have biases for or against players that will affect perceived value in trade.

 

How many other GM's without huge payroll capabilities have landed anything akin to Sabathia, Marcum, and Greinke while signing Wolf in the last 2.5 years?

[Funketown]

Our farm has completely run dry, but these next two years should be really fun. When Fielder leaves, that's two picks. If Weeks leaves, that's probably two picks. If Greinke leaves, that's two picks.

 

I'm thinking that unless some of the mid-level prospects hit their stride, 2013-2015 are going to be rough. If they get a division title and a couple playoff appearances (I won't even say the World Series word) out of this, it will absolutely be worth it for me.

[Beast Light]

We have starting pitching now but he is still to blame for the Brewers having the worst or next to worst starting rotation in the NL for the past two years. Going into the 2009 season, he was comfortable with Manny Parra as his #2 pitcher. I thought that was insane.

 

At any rate, the Brewers went all in in 2008 and I really can't fault them for that. It pains me to think of what could have been that year. If Sheets didn't take a nose dive immediately following the trade for Sabathia, that team would have had just as good a chance to win it all as anyone else that year. A healthy Sheets was an ace that year and it would have kept CC from having to pitch on 3 days rest down the stretch ..which I believe ultimately led to his breakdown in the playoffs. That team had quite an offense and a playoff rotation of Sabathia, Sheets and Gallardo would have been very difficult to beat.

 

Instead, the worst case scenario played out with the team getting bounced from the playoffs and getting no picks from Sheets due to his injury and CC being the second highest rated player to sign with the Yankees.

 

I will say this though, Melvin needs to find a way to start devloping some home grown pitching.

[kramnoj]

Going into the 2009 season, he was comfortable with Manny Parra as his #2 pitcher.

 

Did Melvin say that, or is that you assuming that? Given that Parra started the third game of the season, I think that represents more accurately where his place was in the rotation. And I personally would have put him #4 behind Bush.

 

I was almost ready for a change going into this off-season, but I like what Melvin has done. He's traded away talent, maybe even All Star talent, but he has put together a team that has a real shot at serious contention the next two years.

[bigredrobbo]

Everybody's been great with DM - what could you possibly be referring to?

[TooLiveBrew]

I was almost ready for a change going into this off-season, but I like what Melvin has done. He's traded away talent, maybe even All Star talent, but he has put together a team that has a real shot at serious contention the next two years.

 

This sums it up for me perfectly. Yes, he traded away a lot of talent, but the timing to do so is right. The Brewers will be able to draft several times near the top of the next two drafts to help replenish the system.

[Ayt]

We are cool, and that.

[craigharmann]

He got starting pitching, but come on, Yuniesky Betancourt as your starting SS? COME ON DOUG!

[logan82]

Never had a problem with him. The future looks bad though unless we get a few extensions signed. Weeks and one of Marcum of Greinke.

[Beast Light]

Going into the 2009 season, he was comfortable with Manny Parra as his #2 pitcher.

 

Did Melvin say that, or is that you assuming that? Given that Parra started the third game of the season, I think that represents more accurately where his place was in the rotation. And I personally would have put him #4 behind Bush.

 

I was almost ready for a change going into this off-season, but I like what Melvin has done. He's traded away talent, maybe even All Star talent, but he has put together a team that has a real shot at serious contention the next two years.

He said it in interviews on WSSP leading up to the 2009 season. Usually to the effect of "We are losing a lot with the depature of Sabathia and Sheets but we really like Gallardo and Parra to step up and replace them at the top of our rotation" ..that sort of thing. Who knows though, I mean what else could a GM say in that situation? He can't really go out and say "our rotation won't cut it and we are in big trouble".

 

I believe that Parra started the 3rd game of the 2009 season only because Suppan started the first with Macha claiming he didn't want to put Gallardo under the pressure of starting on opening day in San Francisco ...so he went with the veteran.

 

Here's an article where Melvin speaks about Gallardo and Parra fitting into the top 3 of the rotation (with Suppan). My, how far we have come..

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/42164537.html

 

 

 

[Invader3K]

I do agree that Melvin expected a lot from Parra, probably more than was reasonable given his performance up to that point.

 

I think Melvin's stock rose quite a bit with most Brewers fans after this morning.

[logan82]

I do agree that Melvin expected a lot from Parra, probably more than was reasonable given his performance up to that point.

 

I think Melvin's stock rose quite a bit with most Brewers fans after this morning.

Before last season Parra had one good year and one bad year with a pretty good MiLB track record. It was reasonable to think Parra might be better than he was in 2009.

[Beast Light]

I do agree that Melvin expected a lot from Parra, probably more than was reasonable given his performance up to that point.

 

I think Melvin's stock rose quite a bit with most Brewers fans after this morning.

Agreed. I have been critical of Melvin but it appears as if he is finally realizing that this team needs some top of the line pitching and is willing to part with some prospects to get it. If I could have added any player from the Major Leagues to the Brewers roster, Greinke would have been very high on the list in fact there are not many pitchers that I would have taken over him.

 

I really don't think parting with Escobar is a loss at all. He was just another low OBP guy that the Brewers always seem to have too many of. Odorizzi could be good but the same thing was said about Will Inman. Losing Cain hurts but stud pitching does not come cheap.

 

We've got some boppers in the lineup. If Melvin can go out and find some good fielding guys with plate discipline at SS and CF, I will be VERY excited about this upcoming season.

 

 

 

 

[kramnoj]

Here's an article where Melvin speaks about Gallardo and Parra fitting into the top 3 of the rotation (with Suppan).

 

Yes, top 3 doesn't mean #2. And as reviled as Suppan is here, he's been a better pitcher than Parra has over the last 3 years.

[clancyphile]

I was almost ready for a change going into this off-season, but I like what Melvin has done. He's traded away talent, maybe even All Star talent, but he has put together a team that has a real shot at serious contention the next two years.

 

This sums it up for me perfectly. Yes, he traded away a lot of talent, but the timing to do so is right. The Brewers will be able to draft several times near the top of the next two drafts to help replenish the system.

Unless the Brewers expend Marcum and Greinke...

If they can get Weeks and Prince extended as well... BONUS COOLNESS!!!

[The Truth]

I've been a very big critic of Doug Melvin and have called numerous times here and elsewhere for his firing and I am completely thrilled to be proven wrong.

 

So: yes, all is cool

[Beast Light]

Here's an article where Melvin speaks about Gallardo and Parra fitting into the top 3 of the rotation (with Suppan).

 

Yes, top 3 doesn't mean #2. And as reviled as Suppan is here, he's been a better pitcher than Parra has over the last 3 years.

We all know that Suppan was not the #1 or #2 starter heading into the 2009 season. He was coming off of a 4.96 ERA and a 1.54 WHIP in 2008. The ONLY reason he got the opening day start was because for some reason, Macha wanted to go with a veteran on opening day opposed to putting the younger guys in a higher pressure situation. If you recall, most fans were upset by the strange decision. Maybe some other people can chime in here but I believe that the 2009 rotation was built as such:

 

1. Gallardo

2. Parra

3. Suppan

4. Looper

5. Bush

 

There was also some quiet speculation that Macha did not want to waste Gallardo's first start against Lincecum. Gallardo and Parra were the guys that the team was hanging its hat on to carry the load that year and the team was counting on Manny to build upon his 2008 season and provide #2 production.

 

Here is an article from USA Today at the time:

 

 

Gone too are pitching aces CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets.

Sabathia signed with the Yankees for $161 million over seven years. Sheets needed surgery to correct a torn flexor tendon in his elbow.

That leaves Milwaukee's starting rotation perilously thin. Jeff Suppan, Dave Bush and Braden Looper, who signed a $4.75 million, one-year contract, fill out the rotation, but the Brewers' success in 2009 rests squarely on the kids -- Gallardo and Parra.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/2009-04-03-2299794987_x.htm

 

Melvin echoed the above in interviews leading up to the start of the season. Doesn't really matter though, Melvin thought the rotation would allow the team to compete when even casual fans knew that it would be a serious weakness. If he really was counting on Suppan for #1 or #2 production, that is even worse. Again, its good to see we have come a long way since the 2009 season.

[kramnoj]

We all know that Suppan was not the #1 or #2 starter heading into the 2009 season. He was coming off of a 4.96 ERA and a 1.54 WHIP in 2008.

 

Yes, and Melvin is smart enough to know that one year isn't enough information to base decisions on. Suppan got the OD start because the team didn't want to put pressure on Gallardo.

 

On July 18, 2009 Suppan had a 4.43 ERA and the Brewers were just two games back. Parra had a 6.36 ERA that year. I'm sure a lot of us were hoping Parra would step forward, but he hadn't done enough to be the #2 starter that year.

[carniesandrubes]

Doug bought himself about 3 years of job security with this trade. The team should be fine the next 2 seasons, and then the bottom is going to fall out. 2013 will be the first of several awful years and then all bets are off with the entire front office.

 

And unlike 99% of you on here, I don't consider one or two likely first or second round playoff exits the next couple seasons worth the following 5 years of futility.

[gobrew23]

And unlike 99% of you on here, I don't consider one or two likely first or second round playoff exits the next couple seasons worth the following 5 years of futility.

Why are we "likely" to be first or second round playoff exits the next couple seasons?? I think pitching pretty important in the playoffs and we have good pitching.

 

Also don't agree about "5 years of futility." Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to project that. How about we wait and see how our minor leaguers perfom this year and what talent we can add in the draft this year. Who knows, the Brewers could flip Fielder or a pitcher at the deadline and stockpile good young talent.

 

 

[CWSOmaha]

I have been a big DM critic since he did nothing after the 2008 season and "hoped" his pitchers would have career years to be competitive. I was also critical of him when he signed a lot of older players last year.

 

I was extremely happy with him when he made the Marcum trade because I wasn't a big fan of Lawrie and some of the things I heard about him as a person. Now with Zach Greinke I feel like a kid who just woke up Christmas morning with presents under the tree!!! Is there a chance that Cain will be another Tori Hunter and Escobar another Ozzie Smith, sure maybe but how many of those top prospects turn out to be big time all stars? Do the names LaPorta and Brantley mean anything? I love Orodizzi but he's at least 2 years away, Jeffress...is he going to develop that third pitch and all of the sudden become a starter? There's a chance but it may not happen so he'll be stuck as a relief pitcher. Remember JM Gold, Nick Neugaberger? How did those high picks fair?

I'm not sure I understand people saying that we won't be any good in 2013. I don't think our farm system is as bad now as some people think. Don't will still have Rogers, Peralta, Rivas, and Heckathorn? Don't we have the group we drafted last year...Miller, Nelson, Thornburg, and Ross? Maybe we don't have hitters ready for the bigs right now but we do have some guys at lower levels. We have 2 picks this year and didn't have to give up anything because we didn't sign Pavano. Maybe our system won't put anyone in the top 100 in Baseball America but I don't think we're that bad off.

 

The look of this team the way it is now is a heck of lot more promising than one with Yo, Marcum, Wolf, Narvy and someone else as starting pitchers. They say a team always overvalues prospects, and remember they are just prospects not full time big league players with very much experience.