Greinke traded to Milwaukee; Latest -- more on how it came about

[KCBrewerfan34]

Not to toot my own horn but check this out, maybe Moore saw on my post LOL

 

KCBrewerfan34 #412 [-]

 

Posts: 1113

December 13, 2010 3:25 PM

What about Escobar, Cain and Jeffress or Odirizzi. Man the Royals would be nuts to pass on that, we would be nuts to offer it. Take the pitcher out and put Jeffress in then this deal is done IMO.

 

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[dadofandrew]

Jeffress not confirmed. That may be because they can't reach him, or it may be because he is not involved. The Brewers always let their players know. Could be either.

 

KC34, that was quite a guess. It's a huge hole to give up 4 guys, especially 3 ready to contribute, but I'm still shocked it did not take a single top guy like Lawrie, or a proven everyday player, though I think KC considers Lo and Alcides "proven"...and they are, defensively at least. Also, taking Betancourt back lowered the haul for the Royals, avoiding a top guy being needed.

[fondybrewfan]

Jeffress not involved

Awesome.

 

A bullpen with Axford, Braddock, Jeffress, Hawkins, and Loe as the main guys is pretty solid. There isn't a ton of experience there either. This new rotation should instantly improve our bullpen anyways. Instead of having to pitch 25-30 innings for every 7 games; these better starters should be able to reduce that to around 20 or so. Doug should look at getting another lefty though; I wonder is Stetter is still capable.

 

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Someone needs to make the obligatory, "Glad to see Melvin making an aggressive, Kenny Williams-type move" comment

 

I wish I had thought of that to be honest. I'd been wishing for Melvin to be more like Williams for a while.

Truth be told, you were the person I thought that made me want to type that http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

I wonder is Stetter is still capable.

 

I would imagine that, if properly utilized, Stetter could still be effective.

[carniesandrubes]

So 2 years of "going for it" and then probably 5 years of 70-win seasons afterwards now that our minor league cabinet is pretty much. Big price to pay.

 

But hey, at least they'll sell some season tickets for the next year or two.

[Tedaldtada]

The Brewers got the most valuable player in baseball over the last two seasons. Yes, a higher WAR than Halladay and Lee.

We also acquired the least valuable player in baseball over the last 2 seasons...that is weird, haha.

[hauser42]

Escobar has a long way to go to top the 2 top SS that played for the Royals.

 

1 Freddie Patek. Once finished 6th in the MVP voting. He was not a gimmick because he was only 5'5".

2 U. L. Washington Steady player during his career for winnning teams.

 

If Jeffers is not in the deal it only gets better for the Brewers, another power arm in the pen.

[owbc]

It is worth noting that this now guarantees that Prince Fielder will be back in 2011.

 

I think the bad market for Prince resulted in the change in direction. After they couldn't get a return for Prince and realized there was starting pitching available, they changed direction.

 

This is a huge trade with low risk, high reward that could change the course of the franchise. I was expecting attendance to decline by as much as 300-500,000 this year. This trade wipes at least half of that decline away before the Brewers even play a game. The excitement going into the season has the potential to be higher than any year since I became a Brewers fan.

 

Of course it could all go wrong, but the Brewers can sell in July and restock the minor leagues if that is the case.

[theavrock]

Jeffress not involved

Awesome.

 

A bullpen with Axford, Braddock, Jeffress, Hawkins, and Loe as the main guys is pretty solid. There isn't a ton of experience there either. This new rotation should instantly improve our bullpen anyways. Instead of having to pitch 25-30 innings for every 7 games; these better starters should be able to reduce that to around 20 or so.

This is a point that can't be overstated. Greinke, Yo and Marcum all should go close or over 200 innings. Additionally it makes the defense have to do less. Defense can make pitching better, but pitching can also make defense have to do less.

[UeckerAddict]

So 2 years of "going for it" and then probably 5 years of 70-win seasons afterwards now that our minor league cabinet is pretty much. Big price to pay.

 

But hey, at least they'll sell some season tickets for the next year or two.

I am old enough to know that saying "Yeah, we're really good now, the favorites of the division, but we'll struggle in a few years" is the best position a Brewer fan can ever be in.

[Brewer Fever]

A clue on the PTBNL from Ken Rosenthal's latest column...

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/...e-greinke-over-prospects

 

Prospects. All you hear in baseball, all the time, is that certain prospects are too valuable to trade.

 

Brewers GM Doug Melvin evidently does not believe in that premise. And he is gambling his job that he will be proven right.

 

Melvin is on the verge of the most surprising trade of the off-season -- the acquisition of Royals ace Zack Greinke and shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt for four of the Brewers’ best young players.

 

Good for him.

 

Enough already with the talk of prospects, and the overvaluing of youngsters who might never make an impact in the major leagues.

 

Melvin clearly is trying to win next season, which almost certainly will be the last in Milwaukee for first baseman Prince Fielder and perhaps the last for second baseman Rickie Weeks.

 

Two of the Brewers’ projected regulars, shortstop Alcides Escobar and center fielder Lorenzo Cain, are part of the package for Greinke. So is one of the team’s top young arms, right-hander Jake Odorizzi, and a player to be named.

 

Earlier this off-season, Melvin made a similar but less extravagant deal, trading perhaps his top prospect, infielder Brett Lawrie, for Blue Jays right-hander Shaun Marcum.

 

Which is why one rival executive, upon learning of the Greinke deal, used the term “gutted” to describe the state of the Brewers’ farm system.

 

That description might very well be accurate. But if the Brewers reach the postseason in Fielder’s last hurrah, Melvin will simply figure out the rest later.

 

Melvin, remember, traded a supposedly rich package for nearly four months of CC Sabathia in 2008. The Brewers have yet to be haunted by any of those players – first baseman Matt LaPorta, outfielder Michael Brantley, right-hander Robert Bryson and left-hander Zach Jackson.

 

For two seasons of Greinke, Melvin seemingly had to give more. But Cain, who will be 25 on April 13, has only 158 major-league plate appearances. Escobar, for all his gifts, has a .307 on-base percentage in 623 PAs, though he is still just 24.

 

Odorizzi, 20, actually draws comparisons to Greinke, but some rival clubs project him as a reliever. The player to be named, one source said, is “a pretty good player,” but the Royals are checking his medical background before agreeing to take him in the deal.

 

In this hyper-analytical, rush-to-judgment era, the Royals actually might get criticized for acquiring players who are close to the majors but offer less upside than those that might have been available from other clubs.

 

It will take years to settle the debate. Melvin, who is signed through 2012 but is under scrutiny from owner Mark Attanasio after two straight losing seasons, needs to win now.

 

The Brewers should definitely contend in the modest NL Central in 2011. And even if both Fielder and Weeks depart as free agents, they still will boast a decent core in ’12.

 

Greinke, Marcum, Yovani Gallardo and Randy Wolf. would be in the rotation. Left fielder Ryan Braun, right fielder Corey Hart, third baseman Casey McGehee and catcher Jonathan Lucroy would be in the lineup, along with a promising young hitter, first baseman Mat Gamel. Right-hander John Axford would be the closer, lefty Zach Braddock a setup man.

 

Shortstop and center field – the two positions the Royals were desperate to address in the Greinke trade – still might be issues. But if Escobar and Cain had failed to develop, those spots might have been issues, anyway.

 

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Too many current GMs are afraid of trading prospects, afraid of making deals that will come back to “haunt” them. Well, the idea isn’t to win the Baseball America organizational rankings. The idea is to win the World Series.

 

Three years ago, the Tigers traded six players to the Marlins for third baseman Miguel Cabrera and left-hander Dontrelle Willis. The Marlins received the two jewels of the Tigers’ farm system, center fielder Cameron Maybin and left-hander Andrew Miller. Both flopped and were traded this off-season.

 

Prospects are fine, but Doug Melvin needs players.

 

He’s on the verge of getting one of the best.

[dpapo]

Hate to give up Cain as I think he it going to be a top of the order, gold glove centerfielder for years to come. Would be great if we didn't have to give up Jeffress, who are the Brewers top prospects currently not on the 40 man roster that might end up being traded?
As a Brewer fan, hard not to be excited about getting Greinke. You never know about injuries and such, but the Brewers have gone from a middle of the pack team in the NL to one of the early season favorites with the pickup of Greinke and Marcum.
However, we should have gotten another player for having to take on Betancourt. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif At least I hope it was a case of the Royals making it a part of the deal and not Melvin asking for him. If the Brewers are going to have a shortstop that can't hit, would rather just have one that can at least play defense.
Found this blog article on Betancourt's defense.

http://royalsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/627

Actually hoping, though I know it will not be the case, that Betancourt is not a part of the deal, but I guess that was another price to pay to get Greinke.

[Tedaldtada]

I really hope Rogers isn't the PTBNL...

[jerichoholicninja]

If Jeffress isn't in the deal the Royals just took one from behind.

 

Overall, I think we as Brewer fans need to stop assuming all of our prospects are going to be stars. Most, and by a great margin historically, most have failed. As a fan I'll take two years of having a great team and then a few a mediocre years right now. We've sucked for a while.

[tyguy20204]

Apparently it can't be anyone on the 40 man roster.

Cain is already, solid, though. I wouldn't really consider him a prospect. He's going to be very good.

And Escobar will be at least league-average at SS.

[TooLiveBrew]

Probably a bit simpleton-y of me, but I just realized that if a PTBNL can't be from the 40-man roster, that also means Rogers & Gamel are 'safe'. Not that anyone thought Gamel would move to KC, but I was worried about Rogers for a hot minute.

 

Odorizzi, 20, actually draws comparisons to Greinke, but some rival clubs project him as a reliever.

Good ol' Ken... just getting things completely incorrect. But hey, Jake's not a NY or Boston prospect, so it doesn't matter!

 

And fwiw that "medical background" comment makes me wonder if the PTBNL is Kentrail Davis.

[endaround]

If Jeffress isn't included I don't want him in Milwaukee's pen if it can at all be helped. Stetter was still destroying left handed hitters. He's a LOOGY and nothing else. I think I'm going to miss how Macha ran his pen.

[fondybrewfan]

So who in the minors is a pretty good player but with an injury problem? Taylor Green, Logan Schafer?

[Tedaldtada]

Other prospects with some medical history:

 

Amaury Rivas

Erik Komatsu

Logan Schafer

[PeaveyFury]

I really hope Rogers isn't the PTBNL

 

If it's truly a PTBNL it can't be Rogers since he's on the 40 man, but the 'reviewing the medicals' stuff sure points in that direction. Rather than a PTBNL, maybe they're just deciding on him before the deal is official?

[Invader3K]

I think the Brewers draw over 3 million fans this coming season. People are going to be buying season ticket packages like crazy now.

 

Kentrail Davis might be a good guess, TLB.

[thebruce44]

He makes it sound like the PTBNL could be Rogers.

[endaround]

I thought perhaps Arnett? Wasn't it thought that his fall off might be due to injury issues?

[PeaveyFury]

Somewhat surprising that no one has yet mentioned the plus of not having to have any further agony over whether we'll sign Pavano or not and whether that would be a wise decision.

[fondybrewfan]

I would rather have it be Jeffress than Rogers. Rogers excited me too much as a SP prospect. Plus he is really the only depth right now if we have a SP injury.