Greinke traded to Milwaukee; Latest -- more on how it came about

[Mass Haas]

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Jeffress shocked by trade to Royals

Written by Joe Chandler, gazettevirginian.com

Jeremy Jeffress admitted he was shocked to learn that the Milwaukee Brewers had traded him to the Kansas City Royals. “I couldn’t believe it,” Jeffress said.

 

“I thought I would be with the Brewers forever, for all that I came through and how much stuff I had been through with the Brewers coming from the bottom to the top.”

 

Jeffress, who made his first Major League pitching appearance in September and appeared in 10 late-season games for the Brewers, was traded to the Kansas City Royals on Dec. 18.

 

The trade was part of a major multi-player deal in which the Brewers acquired 2009 Cy Young Award winner Zack Greinke from the Royals.

 

“I didn’t know my name was involved until the last moment,” Jeffress pointed out.

 

“They (Brewers officials) called me and said they were checking on my medical records. When they told me that, I kind of figured I’d be traded.”

 

The former Halifax County High School star hurler noted it took a while for the reality that he is now a member of the Kansas City Royals to sink in.

 

“I got a bunch of phone calls at the moment (it happened),” Jeffress pointed out.

 

“I really couldn’t think to myself until that night when I laid down in the bed and realized I was a Kansas City Royal.”

 

He said Kanasas City manager Ned Yost and the team’s general manager called to speak with him. All Jeffress knows is that he is on the Royals’ 40-man roster.

 

“They haven’t told me much,” Jeffress remarked.

 

“I’ll be in the Major League camp with them in March, and we’ll go from there.”

 

Jeffress explained he has no expectations of his role with the Royals at this point.

 

“I’m going to spring training as a set-up guy for the closer,” he pointed out.

 

“I’ll work as hard as I can and see from there. There is nothing that I am going to expect right now. I’m just going to go to spring training and do what I have to do and let them make the decisions.”

 

While the trade came as a surprise, Jeffress says he understands Major League Baseball is a big business.

 

“Teams are trying to win and get the best players available,” the former South Boston resident pointed out.

 

“It’s just business. When your name is called, you’ve got to go. It happens almost every day. The business is all about you playing your game and letting the people in the front offices make the decisions of what your game is. There is nothing you can do but play the game that you love.”

 

Jeffress has seen the positives in the trade and says he is eager to get started.

 

“There are a lot of great things that have come from this trade,” said Jeffress.

 

“It was a blessing. In my heart, I was just surprised and thankful they were able to trade me to a team that is building for the future. We’re going to have a lot of fun. I’m excited.”

 

One of the good things for Jeffress is that he will not have to move his residence – at least not right away. Jeffress has been residing in Phoenix, Ariz., where the Brewers’ training facilities are located. The Kansas City Royals’ training facility is also located in Phoenix.

 

“The Royals’ spring training is in Phoenix,” Jeffress pointed out.

 

“That’s one of the great things about the trade. The Royals are also in Phoenix. I’m happy about that.”

 

With the Royals, Jeffress will be reunited with former Brewers teammates Alcides Escobar and Lorenzo Cain. Escobar could be the starting shortstop for the Royals this season. Cain had been pegged as a probable starter in centerfield for the Brewers prior to the trade to the Kansas City Royals.

 

And, because he continues to reside in Phoenix, Jeffress will be able to stay in contact with people he has gotten to know there.

“I still talk to a lot of the guys I have gotten close with,” Jeffress noted.

 

“They were excited and happy for me. We’re still in Phoenix, so I won’t be too far from them.”

[TooLiveBrew]

“I couldn’t believe it,” Jeffress said.

 

“I thought I would be with the Brewers forever, for all that I came through and how much stuff I had been through with the Brewers coming from the bottom to the top.”

 

This made me a little sad to read. I know I'll really be rooting for Jeremy.

 

 

“I’m going to spring training as a set-up guy for the closer,” he pointed out.

 

I'm surprised a team in the Royals' position wouldn't try to get him to stick as a starter. They certainly won't be contending next season, so why not let him start in AAA? The obvious answer is they don't believe he can start, but I'm just surprised they aren't even giving it a shot.

[endaround]

Probably because they think their 7 or so guys are better candidates and they need the rotation spots for them. Joakim should of course already have been traded.

[GamelToe]

http://sportsillustrated..../index.html?eref=writers via MLBTR.

 

Nats were prepared to offer $18 mil per 5 yrs.

[Hate those Rodents]

That's possibly great news on what the Nats offered. I had been hoping to do 5/100, provided that was after his current deal and not simply buying out these final two years.

[chadomac]

I think if anyone really thought Jeffress was going to stick as a starter, they wouldn't have included both him and Odorizzi in the trade. Very unlikely he leaves the bullpen, I think.

[trwi7]

Well yeah, but the point is why don't the Royals just try him as a starter? If he can be a starter he has more value to the Royals either as a player or as a trade piece, if he can't at least he spends a little more time in the minors and you have him under control for cheap through his prime instead of him hitting free agency at like 28 or 29.

[monty57]

Well yeah, but the point is why don't the Royals just try him as a starter? If he can be a starter he has more value to the Royals either as a player or as a trade piece, if he can't at least he spends a little more time in the minors and you have him under control for cheap through his prime instead of him hitting free agency at like 28 or 29.

I agree, and I think this is a point where the PR department outweighs what is smart long-term. The Royals will probably have a hard time selling any Greinke trade to the fans, but it would be really tough if the two pitchers were minor leaguers (many fans don't seem to count minor leaguers as much value). It makes it a little easier a sell to have a starting CF, SS and a 100+MPH fireballer in the setup role. IMHO it's a dumb move, but it sounds sexy.

 

Gettting Greinke is far and away the highlight of this trade, but the second reason I like it is that I don't have to fret over how the Brewers are wasting Jeffress in the bullpen.

 

[Blake Doe]

I'm a Royals fan and I figured I might be able to give a unique prospective about the trade and Greinke. I haven't sifted through all the pages, but I read a few and I don't think anyone has mentioned some of this.

A lot of people have been viewing Greinke's 2009 year as some kind of fluke season and that he's not really that good. Granted he did things that he had never done before and posted a better line than any current pitcher in baseball has done, but what a lot of people outside of some Royals fans don't realize is the guy an absolute gamer. If you look at Greinke's splits by month you'll notice two things about him, he comes out of the gates on fire and finishes the season that way. In 2009 he came out of the gates like he usually does and the Royals got off to as good of a start as they've had since Zack Greinke was with the Royals, as sad as it is they got off to an 18-11 start. My theory behind why Zack continued to be on fire for the rest of the season is because by the time the Royals had come back down to earth, he was actually playing for something. As selfish as it may sound he was playing for himself and maybe even the fans at that point, the stadium had a much higher attendance throughout the season when Zack was on the mound and I think it really did energize him. If he's focused and knows he's playing for something he's going to be there and he isn't going to mess around. Will he repeat 2009? I doubt it. Is be better than 2010? I truly think he is.

I really hope I have the opportunity to see him play in the playoffs for you guys and get to see him dominate.

[Invader3K]

Blake, thanks for the further insight into Greinke. It's appreciated. Royals fans can know that their franchise seems to be turning a corner, despite trading their best starting pitcher. Brewers fans were in the same place you are just a few years back.

[TooLiveBrew]

Responding here to a post from the MiLB forum's "Brewers have worst MiLB system in baseball"

 

This time 2 years from now Greinke will be turning 29 and physically

on the downside of his career, quickly approaching the injury apex in

the average pitcher's career cycle. His stuff is better than Gallardo

now, but they'll be pretty similar in 2 years, and overall his stuff

isn't in that top tier, he's in that next group down.

 

I'd

appreciate if you'd lay out which pitchers are in your top tier. I

think that's pretty arbitrary to hold against Melvin, since the King

Felixes & Freaks of the world aren't available for trade. I really

don't think anything realistic will satisfy you at this point. It's one

thing to demand excellence from an organization, it's another thing

entirely to demand a constant stream of pre-arby players that are

all-star caliber. No one does that. Not even the Rays, who I agree are

a model franchise.

 

 

An

interesting side note is that Yo's average velocity actually climbed

last season... at any rate Greinke had 1 season he pitched like an Ace, I

think he's comfortably a very good #2 and if he gets in an extended

groove he can pitch like Ace, but statistically he's not an Ace, the

stats for his career just don't bear that out.

 

And

Greinke's increased in '07, decreased in '08, increased in '09,

& decreased in '10. For pete's sake, the guy is entering his age-27

season, and even in a down season he still qualified statistically as

an ace by xFIP, FIP, & tERA. ERA is where he didn't, but his strand

rate was so far out of norms that I can't bring myself to be

concerned. At this point, I think you need to clarify how you mean he

isn't an ace, statistically, because even in what for him was a poor

season, he was.

 

 

This time 2 years from now Greinke will be

turning 29 and physically on the downside of his career, quickly

approaching the injury apex in the average pitcher's career cycle.

 

So

who do you trade for? Which pre-arby ace caliber guy are you able to

pry away from a team with the talent the Brewers had available this

offseason? We know for a fact that Melvin chased after Clay Buchholz in

'09, so from an outsider's p.o.v. I believe it's more fair to assume

he's pursuing ideas like that, as opposed to claiming that's probably

the one isolated incident. With that, it's fair to argue that Melvin

*is* out there trying to make deals for pre-arby impact arms happen.

But this is where your strategy is always brought to a halt -- teams

aren't trading guys like that now as a general rule. And that's not

based on Brewers examples, there were plenty of 'hot stove' rumors this

offseason that mentioned some variation of 'teams just aren't trading

pre-arby arms'.

 

For as much as you criticize Melvin for not

making the types of trades, and saying there's one or no examples of him

trying to do so, you yourself can only point to a small collection of

trades that have happened over the past four or so seasons across the

entire league. You can't build a system when your best-case scenario is

making one type of trade (that fits your standards) every three seasons or

so. Not to mention that the price is so high to get these guys now that

there's a chance you're cutting off your nose to spite your face in

terms of prospects. I'd also appreciate seeing a list of trades that would meet your standard, just so we have a frame of reference as to what types of deals you're talking about making. Iirc you like the Jair Jurrgens deal for Atlanta, so there's one. I'd really appreciate seeing several more, especially if one team has been responsible for multiple deals like this in a short timespan.

[Thurston Fluff]

I agree, and I think this is a point where the PR department outweighs what is smart long-term. The Royals will probably have a hard time selling any Greinke trade to the fans, but it would be really tough if the two pitchers were minor leaguers (many fans don't seem to count minor leaguers as much value). It makes it a little easier a sell to have a starting CF, SS and a 100+MPH fireballer in the setup role.

 

In normal situations I would agree. In the case of a team down that long I don't think it matters. Casual fans won't go to see rookies play instead of Greinke regardless of their prospect status. They wait to see what the team looks like then go if they see something good happening. The only way fo rthat to happen is to get the best players then wait for it to come together. Simply put you don't get casual fans without winning and you don't win unless you get the best players available.

If the Royals want to do something positive for their short term attendance they are as well off getting the best possible prospects regardless of age or major league readiness. The diehards are who they will rely on for attendance and merchandise sales until the team actually turns things around. As we all know here, diehards not only want to see a long term plan in place but are pretty knowledgeable on how good those future prospects are. In KC's situation I believe diehards, unlike casual fans, will come when they see the teams future is going in the right direction even if that meant the present took a hit. Just like we all did in the early to mid part of the last decade.

[greeg35]

So who do you trade for?

I don't think I feel all too differently than thecrew07 does. I think the Greinke trade had to be made as a result of poor managment of our farm to begin with. We ended up with a bunch of good hitting, no fielding position players and no pitching. Now we had to mortgage part to all of the future (3-7 years) to be competitive with that group.

With things as they are the Greinke trade was the way to go IMO (bolded so I don't get ripped too bad http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif ). I'm very excited about being competitive the next 2 years. After that not so much. However, if I could turn back the clock even farther I'd rather have Matt Cain than Fielder (to use the comparison Melvin always uses); basically a more balanced or pitching heavy farm system. Yep, developing pitching through the farm system is a crap shoot; but its better than relying on the trade or free agent markets to acquire it because there you are assured of extreme cost, mediocrity, or both.

[Ennder]

I don't think I feel all too differently than thecrew07 does. I think the Greinke trade had to be made as a result of poor managment of our farm to begin with. We ended up with a bunch of good hitting, no fielding position players and no pitching. Now we had to mortgage part to all of the future (3-7 years) to be competitive with that group.

 

It wasn't poor management, it was unrealistic expectations. It should take roughly 10 years to turn around a team as bad as the Brewers were when Melvin too over. Overhauling the offense was the first step, the pitch overhaul has been slowed by injuries/drugs but we do have a lot of pitching talent in the system atm. There aren't enough draft picks to turn around all positions on the team in a 5 year periods, you have to choose which path to go and we chose offense which is generally safer and puts more fans in the seats.

[greeg35]

Fair enough. It does take time to turn things around and we did have some "bad luck" with the pitching we did try to develop; but some of the "bad luck" involved in developing your own pitching has to be anticipated and counteracted by sheer numbers and types of pitchers drafted. We also wasted 2-3 years and a lot of money trying to patch the hole by signing mediocre/crappy free agent pitching. At least Melvin found a strong "patch" now with Greinke. Too bad he waited until Fielder/Weeks(?) last year here and it cost an arm and a leg.

I'm actually not anti-Melvin and I don't want him gone; but I think even he has acknowledged that he erred in his approach to developing home-grown pitching until recently.

[endaround]

No he didn't wait. Capuano got hurt. Sheets got hurt. Bush regressed. The Brewers had very good pitching in the middle of the decade before the offense came around.

[greeg35]

All things that cannot specifically be anticipated; but generally should be anticipated to happen to pitchers at some point. Instead of having proactively dealt with these realities, he reacted by signing Suppan, Davis, Wolf, etc... for the rotation and many other mediocre/expensive pitchers in the bullpen. Since that didn't work, Fielder and Weeks are almost gone, and his contract is coming up, he made a good but expensive (desperate?) move to actually shore up that hole by trading for Greinke.

I feel the need to say it again: I like Melvin and I think he's done a good job rebuilding our franchise and I hope he sticks around. I also hope he has learned from his mistakes.

[CheezWizHed]

Now we had to mortgage part to all of the future (3-7 years) to be competitive with that group.

...he made a good but expensive (desperate?) move to actually shore up that hole by trading for Greinke.

 

I agree that our own drafting/developing of pitching has led us to this. Although, for some reason Jack Z is praised for drafting Fielder, Braun, and Weeks, but DM is scorned not drafting pitching...

 

But given the situation we are in right now, with one year of Fielder, I heartily salute the all-in stance. What we gave up in trades were not going to make us competitive (with Fielder and maybe others leaving) in the next few years. But we will be competitive this year and maybe next as well.

 

And I would say that trading for Marcum and Grienke is an indication that DM did learn from trying to patch with signing so-so type FA SPs.

 

So we might have a lull in 2013 for a year or three. But I'll take 2 years of competing and 3 years rebuilding (if even that long) over five years of .500 ballclubs (or less).

[Thurston Fluff]

Now we had to mortgage part to all of the future (3-7 years) to be competitive with that group.

 

Gamel, Gennet, Schafer, Komastu and Davis are all position players 20 or older. The farm is loaded with young power arms around the same age/development level. Several of the above players will be in AA this season. It isn't uncommon at all to go from AA to the majors in two years. Not coincidentally that would be about the time some of our major league players will need to be replaced.

[monty57]

Responding here to a post from the MiLB forum's "Brewers have worst MiLB system in baseball"

 

This time 2 years from now Greinke will be turning 29 and physically on the downside of his career, quickly approaching the injury apex in the average pitcher's career cycle. His stuff is better than Gallardo now, but they'll be pretty similar in 2 years, and overall his stuff isn't in that top tier, he's in that next group down.

 

I'd appreciate if you'd lay out which pitchers are in your top tier. I think that's pretty arbitrary to hold against Melvin, since the King Felixes & Freaks of the world aren't available for trade. I really don't think anything realistic will satisfy you at this point. It's one thing to demand excellence from an organization, it's another thing entirely to demand a constant stream of pre-arby players that are all-star caliber. No one does that. Not even the Rays, who I agree are a model franchise.

 

 

An interesting side note is that Yo's average velocity actually climbed last season... at any rate Greinke had 1 season he pitched like an Ace, I think he's comfortably a very good #2 and if he gets in an extended groove he can pitch like Ace, but statistically he's not an Ace, the stats for his career just don't bear that out.

 

And Greinke's increased in '07, decreased in '08, increased in '09, & decreased in '10. For pete's sake, the guy is entering his age-27 season, and even in a down season he still qualified statistically as an ace by xFIP, FIP, & tERA. ERA is where he didn't, but his strand rate was so far out of norms that I can't bring myself to be concerned. At this point, I think you need to clarify how you mean he isn't an ace, statistically, because even in what for him was a poor season, he was.

 

 

This time 2 years from now Greinke will be turning 29 and physically on the downside of his career, quickly approaching the injury apex in the average pitcher's career cycle.

 

So who do you trade for? Which pre-arby ace caliber guy are you able to pry away from a team with the talent the Brewers had available this offseason? We know for a fact that Melvin chased after Clay Buchholz in '09, so from an outsider's p.o.v. I believe it's more fair to assume he's pursuing ideas like that, as opposed to claiming that's probably the one isolated incident. With that, it's fair to argue that Melvin *is* out there trying to make deals for pre-arby impact arms happen. But this is where your strategy is always brought to a halt -- teams aren't trading guys like that now as a general rule. And that's not based on Brewers examples, there were plenty of 'hot stove' rumors this offseason that mentioned some variation of 'teams just aren't trading pre-arby arms'.

 

For as much as you criticize Melvin for not making the types of trades, and saying there's one or no examples of him trying to do so, you yourself can only point to a small collection of trades that have happened over the past four or so seasons across the entire league. You can't build a system when your best-case scenario is making one type of trade (that fits your standards) every three seasons or so. Not to mention that the price is so high to get these guys now that there's a chance you're cutting off your nose to spite your face in terms of prospects. I'd also appreciate seeing a list of trades that would meet your standard, just so we have a frame of reference as to what types of deals you're talking about making. Iirc you like the Jair Jurrgens deal for Atlanta, so there's one. I'd really appreciate seeing several more, especially if one team has been responsible for multiple deals like this in a short timespan.

 

C'mon TLB, Greinke only has one Cy Young Award. You know that pitchers need at least 2-3 before they can be considered good :-)

 

Honestly, I wouldn't waste my time in the arguement. The "Melvin won't pick up pitching" arguement has been hashed out on hundreds of threads already over the past couple seasons, so I have to come to the conclusion that anyone who rips the pitchers we picked up this season based on their talent not being good enough will simply not be happy until Melvin is gone. We picked up two good pitchers in the prime of their careers.

 

I mentioned in another thread that it I feel it is impossible to predict where our system (MLB to rookie league) will be in two seasons, as there are far too many variables. Ripping moves that make us very good at the major league level for at least two seasons on the grounds that we will surely be bad 3+ years down the road is like trying to predict the weather three years out. You can speculate, but you're not going to be really accurate.

[TooLiveBrew]

On a basic level, I completely agree with TheCrew07's approach to team-building. I like his mention of Ted Thompson as being more representative of his p.o.v. than Melvin, because I think that's a useful way to depict his philosophy here in Packerland. Where I feel there's the disconnect is (like others have already mentioned) the realism angle.

 

I get that TheCrew07 isn't inherently bashing Marcum or Greinke, but instead the trading for (relatively) expensive pitchers that aren't in their early 20s, & aren't far off from free agency. I also think that I would prefer to have seen Melvin make a trade for a young, cost-controlled pitcher that fits into TheCrew07's top tier, in terms of stuff. The problem goes beyond how hard it's become to pry away young, cost-controlled pitching in trades. It's also that the subset of pitchers that would qualify on TheCrew07's checklist is approaching minute.

 

TheCrew07 & I have discussed this topic many times, and I probably came across as more argumentative in my response post in this thread than I intended to be. I think if I could trim my reaction down, it would be: What pitchers *are* enough to satisfy your criteria? What's the going rate to acquire such talent, & is that a feasible long-term team-building plan? Where's the evidence that enough of these types of trades can be orchestrated to be a successful strategy, long-term? Those are the issues I'd want to hear him address the most. And I'd genuinely like to read his responses to them, & not just dismiss them automatically.

 

I was a bit incredulous that anyone felt like knocking Greinke's stuff, age, & impact. I understand that TC07's main beef is that Greinke is only two seasons away from free agency. However, short of trading for Tommy Hanson, I just don't see how any single pitcher that is realistically available via trade fits his criteria any better than Greinke. That was part of why I was incredulous, too -- if Greinke doesn't fit the bill for you, TC07, honestly, I'm not sure satisfaction is out there for you.

 

Knowing TC07's approach, I feel pretty confident saying his target would be someone like Tommy Hanson. But I don't feel confident that the Braves would have entertained the idea of dealing away probably the most valuable pitcher in baseball, going by his own criteria. I mean, if Hanson were already on the Brewers, I certainly wouldn't view him as anything but untouchable. Why would I want Brett Lawrie+Alcides Escobar+Jeremy Jeffress+ Lorenzo Cain when I already have Tommy Hanson?

[DHonks]

The best part of these moves is that while the Brewers will be winning in 2011, they also won't have to push players to the majors before they are ready. When we were awful, our prospects were often better than our big leaguers. It's nice to know that we can keep guys in AAA a while without absolutely needing them before they're ready

[Thurston Fluff]

I mean, if Hanson were already on the Brewers, I certainly wouldn't view him as anything but untouchable.

 

We have a Tommy Hanson type on our squad. His name is Yovanni Gallardo. What would it take to pry him away from us?

[TooLiveBrew]

Haha, good point. Not sure why I felt the need to create a different hypothetical than just using Yo like two seasons ago.

[RyDogg66]

I dont know, I think the 21st century sports fan is more vocal about complaining; and even prefers to complain rather than enjoy any sort of success. Look at Packer fans right now. The Packers have won 3 games in a row, are in the playoffs and when I listen to the radio or review twitter all I see are people complaining about play calling, certain players, they just all seem so miserable. Now the same thing is happening with the BRewers. We stink in the 90s and early 2000s, we develop a boatload of homegrown position players, and trade a bunch of other prospects for two other opening day starters, and more impressively the 2009 Cy Young Award winner and we have a host of people complaining about it.

 

I just dont get it. I am fired up. We have a good offense and good starting pitching for 2011. I believe our offense in 2012 will be good as well. I will worry about 2013 when we get there 2 years from now, when, who knows, maybe we will have new prospects ready to step in and help (Kentrail Davis, Mark Rogers, etc). I think we need to realize that is actually OKAY to just be content with what our team is and just focus on enjoying sports for a change rather than being miserable over them.

 

Cant wait for Opening DAy!