Greinke traded to Milwaukee; Latest -- more on how it came about

[ELCABALLO45]

I just want the press conference to happen so I can order my Greinke player T!

[craigharmann]

Anyone else keep checking this thread to make sure that there's no announcement that Greinke backed out of the deal and it's off? I still can't believe it. It's awesome! I thought getting a new grill was a great Christmas present, but I was wrong. Zach Greinke is the best Christmas present ever!

[davemakovec]

Of course the Chicago Press sees this trade as a win for KC.

 

http://www.chicagotribune...0101219,0,5208305.column

That guy's an idiot. The recent history of big trades of stars for prospects usually goes in favor of the team getting the star. The Brewers apparently have a clearly weaker rotation than the Giants, Dodgers, and Cardinals, and the Reds are stronger in the rotation except "on paper." Betancourt is also an improvement over Escobar at short. I'm not sure that this guy understands baseball.

[Invader3K]

Buster Olney weighs in with his opinion.

 

As far as the Rogers article, I suppose you could say KC won in some ways. But I don't think you can discount the player the Brewers got in return.

[chuckiehacks]

wouldn't be surprised if the rotation was set up for greinke to start the home opener which is game #3.

I would. Also, it's Game 4, not 3. We play on March 31st then have an off day, then play 2 more. It'll go Greinke, Gallardo, Wolf on the road. That way we can show off one of our new acquisitions, which would be Marcum, in the home opener.

How about Greinke on opening day and the on 3 days rest for the home opener?

 

[brewerfan82]

I hope we throw Greinke, Gallardo and Marcum at the Reds and punch them in the mouth right off the bat. I don't see the need to save pitchers to showcase them at the home opener.

[endaround]

Phil Rogers doesn't understand baseball.

[Invader3K]

I see Greinke will wear #13.

[Dragonbait]

"How about Greinke on opening day and the on 3 days rest for the home opener?"

 

Wouldn't it be 4 days rest since there's an off day in there?

[monty57]

It'd be hard not to start our shiny, new Cy Young winner on Opening Day. I'd also guess that Roeneke will split up the lefties, putting Wolf at #3. Even though it may make sense to split up the "power pitchers," putting Marcum after Greinke, there's no way Yo is going to be #4, so my guess would be:

 

Greinke, Yo, Wolf, Marcum, Narveson

 

Of course, they could skip Narveson early in the season, in which case, Wolf would be starting the Home Opener as our #4. That does bring up a question... with four studs in the rotation, are we going to skip Narveson as often as possible to get the most starts out of Greinke, Yo, Marcum & Wolf?

[greeg35]

with four studs in the rotation

 

 

I think its funny that Wolf went from questionable #3 to "stud" in two days.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[RobDeer 45]

It is funny, but having wolf as one of your back end guys instead of front end makes a big difference.

[greeg35]

Oh, I agree, its just funny how perspectives can change.

[monty57]

I thought that when I wrote it, but still stuck to my terminology :-)

 

I may be in the minority, but I see Wolf as a good #3. He's not a "stud" par se, but I'll bet he'll be one of the top #4 starters in all of baseball, and will probably be better than a lot of teams' #2 guy.

[gregmag]

I apologize if I missed a link to this earlier in the thread, but here's a commentary from Fangraphs:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/...ung-players-for-greinke/

 

The writer, and some seemingly informed commenters, are a lot less high on Cain than a lot of us here are.

[clancyphile]

I apologize if I missed a link to this earlier in the thread, but here's a commentary from Fangraphs:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/...ung-players-for-greinke/

 

The writer, and some seemingly informed commenters, are a lot less high on Cain than a lot of us here are.

Considering the alternative was Gomez... Cain looks good.

Had it been from, say, Corey Hart in center to Cain, we'd be more easygoing about the deal.

 

[monty57]

I agree with the fangraphs author. I like Cain, and he was certainly a breath of fresh air after watching Gomez flail away all season, but I think many on this board are a little too enamored by him. His .300+ average in a short MLB stint is why Melvin was able to make him the centerpiece of this deal, but I have doubts that he will be a .300+ hitter for his career. I see him more as a .280 avg / .330 OBP hitter with limited power and around average MLB CF defense. At this point, Jeffress would probably need a season in the minors to become a SP again. The Royals could (and in my opinion should) put him in AAA in 2011 to become a starter, but I doubt they will, so if he's stuck being a late-inning reliever, I don't mind losing him too much. Escobar will probably turn into a good player, but he was bad last year, with his mid-.600's OPS and less-than-stellar defense. Again this is only my opinion, but Odorizzi is easily the hardest nugget to lose. He should turn into a good pitcher, but a lot can happen on his road to the bigs. Overall, a very good deal by Melvin.

 

As negative as the paragraph above was, I do hope for the best for all of the players involved. I've followed them for a while now, and I hope they blossom. I just have doubts that any other than Odorizzi will match the expectations we were led to believe they were /are capable of.

[CheezWizHed]

I was pretty surprise last night when I heard of this. My first reaction was surprise that they added Odorizzi to the package, but the more I think of it, the more I like it.

 

Several people mentioned how we must be "going for it now", which is completely correct. But I think the Brewers have to do it that way. If they had a system that was pumping out stud prospects every year or three, it would be different. We all know how Weeks, Fielder and Braun (and Hart just ahead of them) all came up, but there was no pitching.

 

Similarly, we were looking at an issue with some decent pitchers coming in the next 2-3 years, but we would have lost Fielder by then and no stud hitting prospects.

 

So why not trade some of the future to lump our prospects into one decent chance this year? As opposed to just poking our noses above .500 every year?

 

Anyone think this might make Fielder more interested in staying?

[Roderick]

Just to note, COTs says this about Betancourt's contract:

 

"Acquired by Kansas City in trade from Seattle 7/10/09 (Seattle to pay all of 2009 salary, $1M of 2010 salary, $1M of 2011 salary)"

So he will cost the Brewers $3M next year.

Are we sure that the Seattle subsidy money follows Betancourt? Or could the Royals be pocketing it?

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

I don't think that it is a coincidence that the two million we are getting from the Royals equals the two million that they are getting from Seattle.

[monty57]

I was pretty surprise last night when I heard of this. My first reaction was surprise that they added Odorizzi to the package, but the more I think of it, the more I like it.

 

Pretty much my reaction as well

 

Several people mentioned how we must be "going for it now", which is completely correct. But I think the Brewers have to do it that way. If they had a system that was pumping out stud prospects every year or three, it would be different. We all know how Weeks, Fielder and Braun (and Hart just ahead of them) all came up, but there was no pitching.

 

Similarly, we were looking at an issue with some decent pitchers coming in the next 2-3 years, but we would have lost Fielder by then and no stud hitting prospects.

 

So why not trade some of the future to lump our prospects into one decent chance this year? As opposed to just poking our noses above .500 every year?

 

If we can extend Weeks and either (or both) of Marcum and Greinke, which seems fairly likely, then we should be good for at least the next 3-4 seasons. While I understand the "going for it now" comment, I think Melvin's really "going for it" for the next few years, and by that time anything can happen, and some of the guys in the lower minors will be ready. If Weeks gets extended, Lawrie really didn't have a spot on our MLB roster, and as I said above, none of the guys we traded for Greinke are irreplaceable, so I agree with you that this makes much more sense than sitting around .500 for the next few years waiting for prospects to come around.

 

Anyone think this might make Fielder more interested in staying?

 

No. He's going to go for the biggest contract he can get, for which I can't fault him. If he has another season like 2010, I doubt he'll get the contract he thinks he will, which may allow for the Brewers to be in the discussion with him as a free agent. That said, I'd personally rather extend Weeks and use the money that would go to Fielder to try to extend Marcum and/or Greinke. Gamel/McGehee can take over 1B, and we'll still be a playoff caliber team for several more years. Since we just traded our best SP prospect, if we extend Prince and let Marcum & Greinke walk after 2012, we'll be back to where we just came from in a couple seasons.

[endaround]

I think the real goal is to be competitive for as many years as possible for which Braun and Gallardo are both under contract.

[hawing]

I see Greinke will wear #13.

Ah, yes, the number of Zacks/Zachs. Let the printing of the shirseys commence!

 

[And That]

Are we sure that the Seattle subsidy money follows Betancourt? Or could the Royals be pocketing it?

 

Almost 100% sure we get it. The money is usually tied to the player, not the team.

 

I don't think that it is a coincidence that the two million we are getting from the Royals equals the two million that they are getting from Seattle.

 

The $2M figure almost assuredly has to do with the $2M buyout of Betancourt's contract at the end of the year.

[Mudville9]

Not that I think we should be worried about not hearing anything on the "Greinke extention" side of things, I think our best best for a Greinke extention is signing both Weeks and Marcum to one. First of all, it will probably be easier to get extentions done on those two and second, it shows Zack that we are not just going for it for one or two years and may entice him to stay in Milwaukee. I'm not expecting a discount, but he may at least take the going rate to stay. That would lock up three stud arms for the next four years or so and put this team on the map while some prospects develop.

 

I have to say while the CC trade was one of the best moments I can remember as a Brewer fan, the fact that we have Greinke and Marcum for two years has really got me floating on clound nine this morning. Mark A and DM were probably doing a jig last night along with the rest of us.