General Lineup Discussion: 2011

[Baldkin]

If the best 5 hitters aren't in the first 5 spots in the lineup, I'll be more angry than when Edmonds played CF and Gomez played RF last year.

 

Gomez has no business hitting anywhere but 9th until he proves he can consistently do something more than bunt the ball foul and make outs at the plate.

[Warning Track Power]

Gomez will be batting 2nd. Do I think he belongs there? No, however I can't imagine a worse 6, 7, 8 in baseball than Betancourt, Lucroy, Gomez. I think you have to break that threesome up and the best way to do that is put Gomez is 2nd and pray he learns how to bunt and be a slap hitter.

 

Weeks

Gomez

Braun

Fielder

McGehee

Hart

Betancourt

Lucroy

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

If you don't put two RBI guys behind Prince he will never see a strike for the entire season. That is why one of the 3 weaker hitters will hit second. I still think that Counsell will see a lot of time in that position. I also wouldn't rule out Gomez leading off, but I wouldn't bet on it either.

[Baldkin]

Plate appearances by batting order, NL averages last season:

 

755, 742, 723, 706, 688, 669, 654, 633, 616

 

Moving Gomez from 8th to 2nd gives him 110 extra PA's in the season. That's 17% more Carlos Gomez PA's. 12% less Corey Hart PA's.

That's a horrible trade.

 

No amount of "strikes Prince sees" is going to make that kind of impact.

[logan82]

Anybody hitting behind Braun, Fielder and McGehee is going to be an RBI guy.

[Schlitz001]

I'm with Baldkin. You can't put Gomez, Betancourt or Lucroy in any of the top 5 spots. Changing where they hit might make a difference in the pitches that they see, but it won't make them better hitters. As long as the good hitters get more PAs, I don't really care who hits where.

[bullox]

I can't imagine a worse 6, 7, 8 in baseball than Betancourt, Lucroy, Gomez. I think you have to break that threesome up and the best way to do that is put Gomez is 2nd and pray he learns how to bunt and be a slap hitter.

That's really just making a tough situation worse. You don't fix a tough situation by giving bad hitters more chances to be bad. Let the better hitters in the lineup see more plate attempts.

[logan82]

Well Weeks is batting leadoff and the pitcher might bat 8th.

 

 

Roenicke did confirm that Weeks will remain the leadoff hitter but said

he's open to experimenting with the pitcher hitting eighth to try to get

more runners on base for Weeks. The starting pitchers can hit pretty

well, though, so that might not happen. Roenicke said he's just thinking

about it.

[Schlitz001]

It sounds like Roenicke already knows what he wants to do with the lineup. Here's what he's planning:

 

1 Rickie Weeks

2-5 Some combination of Corey Hart, Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder and Casey McGehee

6 Yuni Betancourt

7 Carlos Gomez

8 Jon Lucroy

9 Pitcher

[logan82]

I really have no problem with that. Not ideal or optimized but probably as close to optimized as can be expected.

[TooLiveBrew]

Unless Lucroy hasn't made any strides at the plate from last season, it makes no sense to bat the two out-machines ahead of him. However, at least the best 5 hitters will be batting 1-5.

 

Let the era of the new guy that annoys the fan base in different ways from his predecessors begin!

[logan82]

Gomez 6th would probably make the most sense since that would be a good place to leverage speed. You don't need the speed as much ahead of the top 5 guys. Again it probably makes little difference that far down in the order. The number of at bats is what seems to make the biggest difference. Weeks 5th and Gomez 1st would be like having Gomez pinch hit for Weeks for an entire month.

[endaround]

Of course optimizing the order would mean Dickerson instead of Gomez anyway

[brewtank34]

Ok, so I think I may have stumbled on a good line-up.

 

1. Weeks

2. Lucroy

3. Braun

4. Fielder

5. McGehee

6. Hart

7. Betancourt

8. Gomez

9. Pitcher

 

Lucroy is set for a major breakthrough year. The kid has the talent and the head on his shoulders to make it happen. From what I've heard and read from his interviews, he feels that his offensive output last year was FAR under his ability. Plus, I like the bottom of our line-up much better with Hart, YB and Gomez, Pitcher...rather than YB, Lucroy, Gomez, Pitcher.

[Oxy]

Weeks

Counsel

Braun

Fielder

McGehee

Hart

Dickerson

Lucroy

Pitcher

[brewtank34]

Well, Lucroy will be out of the line-up, so there's a change already.

Weeks, Gomez, Braun, Fielder, McGehee, Hart, Betancourt, Rivera/Kottaras/Nieves, Pitcher

 

Too bad! I was really getting excited for Lucroy.

[jjkoestler]

Plate appearances by batting order, NL averages last season:

 

755, 742, 723, 706, 688, 669, 654, 633, 616

1: Weeks

2: Braun

3: Prince

4: Hart

5: Casey

6: Lucroy

7: Gomez

8: Yuni

9: P

 

Edit: Braun works in the 1 spot too.

[Warning Track Power]

Plate appearances by batting order, NL averages last season:

 

755, 742, 723, 706, 688, 669, 654, 633, 616

1: Weeks

2: Braun

3: Prince

4: Hart

5: Casey

6: Lucroy

7: Gomez

8: Yuni

9: P

 

Edit: Braun works in the 1 spot too.

I already struggle with the idea of Rickie in the 1 spot. Putting Braun in the 1 spot means that he has a whole lot of Gomez, Yuni, Pitcher hitting in front of him. Sounds ideal for Braun to hit 30 HR and drive in 70 runs.

 

[greeg35]

All of this Gomez in the two hole stuff I'm seeing in spring is making me nervous...

[BrycePecore]

I think Roenicke should try Gomez in the #2 spot if he can get him to buy into playing small ball (i.e. bunting and keeping the ball on the ground) which seemed to work last season until The Man hit his first HR. Then he started to believe he was a power hitter. This lineup looks more balanced than batting Hart 2nd.

 

Weeks

Gomez/Dickerson

Braun

Fielder

McGehee

Hart

Betancourt

Lucroy

Pitcher

 

 

 

Also when Counsell starts at SS they could go with this line up.

 

Weeks

Counsell

Braun

Fielder

McGehee

Hart

Gomez

Lucroy

Pitcher

[greeg35]

Baldkin wrote:

---

Plate appearances by batting order, NL averages last season:

755, 742, 723, 706, 688, 669, 654, 633, 616

We'll pull this out again. Please lets not give one of our worst hitters more plate appearances than necessary. And while we're at it, lets not play small ball and give up outs in front of Braun, Fielder, Hart, McGehee.

[brewtank34]

Baldkin wrote:

---

Plate appearances by batting order, NL averages last season:

755, 742, 723, 706, 688, 669, 654, 633, 616

We'll pull this out again. Please lets not give one of our worst hitters more plate appearances than necessary. And while we're at it, lets not play small ball and give up outs in front of Braun, Fielder, Hart, McGehee.

 

What's wrong with playing small ball if it goes along with the offensive strategy of the ball club? Gomez is/was one of our worst hitters last year when Power was the mindframe shelled out by Macha. With Roenicke managing now, Gomez's ability falls right in line with what Roenicke wants to do. In that case, I'm not going to say Gomez is going to become one of our best hitters, but him doing what he can in the 2 hole could produce to many more runs...like you said...in front of Braun, Fielder, Hart and McGehee.

 

Earlier, you posted a line-up based off of the plate appearances....

Weeks

Fielder

Braun

Hart

McGehee

Lucroy

Counsel

Pitcher

Gomez

Frankly, I don't see any scenario that has Roenicke putting Fielder in the 2 hole. Maybe switch Braun and Fielder and you have have something, but no way is Fielder ever going to be in the 2 hole.

[TooLiveBrew]

Gomez stealing bases & being fast has very little to do with his ability to not make outs. Until he improves at getting on base, giving him more at-bats doens't help the offense, it hurts it. He can wreak havoc on the basepaths at the bottom of the order. Meanwhile Weeks & Hart are guys near the top that you want stealing bases, so it's not like the team doesn't have speed up there.

[greeg35]

Frankly, I don't see any scenario that has Roenicke putting Fielder in the 2 hole. Maybe switch Braun and Fielder and you have have something, but no way is Fielder ever going to be in the 2 hole.

 

 

I agree; that's just what I would do.

Gomez is/was one of our worst hitters last year when Power was the mindframe shelled out by Macha. With Roenicke managing now, Gomez's ability falls right in line with what Roenicke wants to do.

If what Roenicke wants to do is give up as many outs as possible in front of Braun and Fielder maybe we should just stick Betancourt there, he'll probably make more outs than Gomez.

[TooLiveBrew]

The Brewers actually had the 3rd-best SB success rate in the NL last season (8th-best in MLB). It's hard for me to dislike that, but I will enjoy seeing Weeks, Braun, & Hart run more like they did under Yost/Sveum.