General Lineup Discussion: 2011

[fondybrewfan]

With Green & Gamel having so much success at AAA this year it is making me quite a bit more optimistic about next year's lineup

 

Weeks

Morgan/Gomez

Braun

Hart

Gamel

Lucroy

Green

Some random SS

 

My pipe dream would be

 

Reyes

Morgan/Gomez

Braun

Weeks

Hart

Gamel

Lucroy

Green

 

I am not sure that Green would be a good 8 hitter but I am not sure how to move him up in the order either. Assuming we just get an average SS; I think it would be a safe assumption that Melvin could extend Marcum and/or Grienke which would be pretty amazing.

[TooLiveBrew]

Quoted from the Yuni thread:

 

Blame? This isn't some sub 500 team with no chance of winning. It's one of the best teams in the NL. Usually the term "give credit" is warranted for teams in serious playoff contention.

 

Imo, the main thing that could keep the Brewers out of the postseason is the lack of positional depth beyond Weeks, Hart, Braun, Fielder, & Lucroy. McGehee looks to be hot now, but his cold stretch was so long that it certainly carries weight, in terms of negative value. Hopefully his best baseball is still ahead of him this season. Betancourt & the bench as a whole have been complete disappointments in terms of offense thus far as well (I'm counting T.Plush as a starter at this point). Even if the Brewers are one of the best teams in the NL, there are clear areas in which the team can be improved. The point isn't to be one of the best, it's to be the best you can assemble. It's blatantly obvious to me, at least, that the Brewers could & should improve at multiple spots.

 

Could this team, as presently constructed, win the NL Central? Sure. But facing a team like Boston reminds you of just how deep your team has to be to contend with the top dogs in MLB. Yes, I understand Boston is working with a vault & the Brewers are working with a piggy bank. But that doesn't change the fact that the Brewers have to contend with the likes of Boston & Philly. I'm not saying the Brewers need to add Jose Reyes & Heath Bell & Lebron James. But the longer the glaring weaknesses remain unaddressed, the worse off this team will be.

 

The frustrating element here is precisely how obvious the problems are. For example, Mark Kotsay never was a good choice for a corner OF reserve & first lefty bat off the bench. The solution would be to acquire a real lefty bat for the bench, & DFA Kotsay... which we all know isn't going to happen. The team is willfully keeping itself weaker than it could & should be, and it's due to poor decisions from the management -- both RRR & Melvin. The Nieves fiasco is another example of the team willfully handcuffing itself. Just because I can't bring myself to believe that Melvin has suddenly turned completely incompetent, I'm going to assume the trade market for shortstops has been quite dried up thus far this season. Because Betancourt's almost unlimited leash has certainly cost the Brewers a lot of production, too. And, again, the solution is to DFA the guy & play Counsell & Wilson... but Betancourt has hardly even seen the bench.

 

I can't share the blissful ignorance of the problems the 2011 Brewers have. The problems are very real, and imo very serious. Obviously I didn't even delve into the bullpen, which is another comedy (tragedy?) of errors in terms of management. At least the talent is there in the bullpen. Outside of Morgan & McGehee, the supporting cast of position players certainly can't make that claim.

[adambr2]

I still don't see how it would do anything but help to swap Morgan and Weeks. Weeks is on pace for 30 HR's, he could benefit from some more RBI chances as could the team. Morgan has plenty of experience in the leadoff spot. Its a very minor change, I don't see how Rickie is suddenly going to become just lost from going from #1 to #2.

[Ayt]

Weeks is 12th in the NL in SLG. I'd definitely prefer that he hit somewhere in the order with more men on base. He could end up with 40 2B and 30 HR but less than 70 RBI.

[Schlitz001]

Imo, the main thing that could keep the Brewers out of the postseason is

the lack of positional depth beyond Weeks, Hart, Braun, Fielder, &

Lucroy.

 

Here is the Brewers batting order and OPS per spot:

 

1 - .862

2 - .711

3 - .920

4 - 1.037

5 - .593

6 - .622

7 - .613

8 - .749

9 - .487

 

The thing that stands out most to me is the terrible support that Prince is getting from the #5 hitter. It's been clear all season long that pitchers are being careful with Prince. Gardenhire decided to intentially walk Prince last night to load the bases in order to face McGehee rather than at least pretend to pitch to Prince. Corey needs to hit behind Prince everyday imo. Also, Weeks might be better served hitting later in the lineup for the sake of RBIs, but then you lose the OBP in front of Braun and Prince. A switch of Morgan and Weeks might be good though.

 

Maybe:

 

Morgan

Weeks

Braun

Fielder

Hart

McGehee

Lucroy

SS

P

[Mr Southpaw]

Weeks is 12th in the NL in SLG. I'd definitely prefer that he hit

somewhere in the order with more men on base. He could end up with 40

2B and 30 HR but less than 70 RBI.

With those stats they should think of batting the pitcher 8th.

 

Maybe....

 

1. Weeks

2. Braun

3. Fielder

4. Hart

5. Morgan

6. Lucroy

7. McGehee

8. Pitcher

9. Counsell/Wilson/Omar Vizquel (After the trade)

 

 

 

[Never Outhustled]

I hope RR moves Morgan to 6th? Why? Because McGehee ends every rally batting 5th, and Hart is constantly being miscast leading off innings. Of course someone will mention better solutions, but I've given up on RR using logical thinking.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I hope RR moves Morgan to 6th? Why? Because McGehee ends every rally batting 5th, and Hart is constantly being miscast leading off innings. Of course someone will mention better solutions, but I've given up on RR using logical thinking.

Why? Just move McGehee down and hit Hart 5th. Morgan is good in the 2 hole.

[Never Outhustled]

I hope RR moves Morgan to 6th? Why? Because McGehee ends every rally batting 5th, and Hart is constantly being miscast leading off innings. Of course someone will mention better solutions, but I've given up on RR using logical thinking.

Why? Just move McGehee down and hit Hart 5th. Morgan is good in the 2 hole.

 

 

Of course someone will mention better solutions, but I've given up on RR using logical thinking.

[brewtank34]

For NY and Minny series...
Weeks
Morgan
Braun
Fielder
Hart
Gamel
McGehee
Lucroy
Betancourt.

I understand McGehee and Hart would most likely be switched, but if I were RR, I would have Hart backing up Fielder.

[PrinceEatMeat]

For NY and Minny series...

Weeks

Morgan

Braun

Fielder

Hart

Gamel

McGehee

Lucroy

Betancourt.

 

I understand McGehee and Hart would most likely be switched, but if I were RR, I would have Hart backing up Fielder.

I'd definitely go with that lineup. But Ron will go with...

Weeks

Morgan

Braun

Fielder

McGehee

Hart

Gamel

Betancourt

Lucroy

 

[adambr2]

Does anyone else feel like this is definitely Weeks' last year leading off?

 

You've got Prince almost definitely leaving next year. Easy internal way to make up for those lost RBI's, give Weeks more RBI chances. I'd bat him #3 or #4 next year. Leadoff Morgan, then you've got Braun #3/#4 with Weeks, and Gamel and Hart #2/#5 in some order, and you've still got a very nice lineup even without Prince.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Does anyone else feel like this is definitely Weeks' last year leading off?

 

You've got Prince almost definitely leaving next year. Easy internal way to make up for those lost RBI's, give Weeks more RBI chances. I'd bat him #3 or #4 next year. Leadoff Morgan, then you've got Braun #3/#4 with Weeks, and Gamel and Hart #2/#5 in some order, and you've still got a very nice lineup even without Prince.

Maybe, but who leads off against lefties? Gomez? I think not.

[adambr2]

Does anyone else feel like this is definitely Weeks' last year leading off?

 

You've got Prince almost definitely leaving next year. Easy internal way to make up for those lost RBI's, give Weeks more RBI chances. I'd bat him #3 or #4 next year. Leadoff Morgan, then you've got Braun #3/#4 with Weeks, and Gamel and Hart #2/#5 in some order, and you've still got a very nice lineup even without Prince.

Maybe, but who leads off against lefties? Gomez? I think not.

Hart would probably be my top choice, (I'd bat him #2 against RHP with Morgan in lineup, #1 against LHP without Morgan in lineup), but there really aren't any good options.

 

I hope that Roenicke doesn't just stick with Weeks as every day leadoff man because it's been done that way for years. You take a guy like Prince out of the lineup and you've got some run production to make up for. I think at that point you've got to step back and realize that arguably your best power threat could be better utilized.

 

[Never Outhustled]

For NY and Minny series...

Weeks

Morgan

Braun

Fielder

Hart

Gamel

McGehee

Lucroy

Betancourt.

 

I understand McGehee and Hart would most likely be switched, but if I were RR, I would have Hart backing up Fielder.

I'd definitely go with that lineup. But Ron will go with...

Weeks

Morgan

Braun

Fielder

McGehee

Hart

Gamel

Betancourt

Lucroy

 

 

 

Your proably right, but the reason RR gives for McGehee 5th ahead of Hart is that he thinks McGehee needs protection in the lineup right now (ya, I know thats lame). If RR really believes that, he could at least do this lineup now:

 

Weeks

Morgan

Braun

Fielder

Hart

McGehee

Gamel

Betancourt

Lucroy

 

That's not ideal, but it's progress.

[1992casey]

If McGehee needs "protection," RRR could hit him ninth and let Rickie protect him.

[PrinceEatMeat]

If McGehee needs "protection," RRR could hit him ninth and let Rickie protect him.

I'd be very happy with that. Still not sure why McGehee needs protection, but Fielder doesn't though. If Roenicke was smart enough he'd realize that hitting Hart behind McGehee is more important.

[brewtank34]

Lucroy should be protecting him. Lucroy has some pop and is getting on base. He's also shown that he can be clutch (not sure what his RISP average is), but I'd rather have him protecting Casey than Betancourt.

[greeg35]

I'd do this while braun is out:

Plush

Weeks

Fielder

Hart

Gamel

McGehee

Betancourt

Lucroy

actually my bottom 3 would be:

Lucroy

Green

Betancourt (or any other ss in the league)

But I'm trying to keep it realistic.

[NYChez]

It's ironic that Gamel formerly played outfield and third base and was moved to give Jim a better shot at playing time - and now there are gaping holes at those two positions, while he's blocked at his new position. I can't imagine that he forgot how to catch a fly ball, though.

[greeg35]

Jim Gamel

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[ninja33]

It's ironic that Gamel formerly played outfield and third base and was moved to give Jim a better shot at playing time - and now there are gaping holes at those two positions, while he's blocked at his new position. I can't imagine that he forgot how to catch a fly ball, though.

Or forget how to play 3B hopefully...because he's starting there today.

[markedman5]

I guess they are hoping the twins don't hit any balls to 3rd base today......

 

I love having his bat in the lineup but RR knows that defense matters doesn't he?

 

The guy has said he doesn't feel comfortable at 3rd....he hasn't played 3rd much if at all this year...he has never been a capable 3rd baseman and they are just going to throw him out there and hope for the best?

[PrinceEatMeat]

Pretty sure Gamel would be happy doing whatever he has to do to play and stay in the majors. He'll work hard at it too.

[jmeks23]

I personally am ready for Nyjer to bat leadoff, I think he's better suited there anyways and he's earned it. Plus, Corey Hart bats WAY better in the 2 hole, and I'd rather have Rickie move down then Morgan because Rickie is a run producer.

 

Morgan

Hart

Braun

Fielder

Weeks

3B

Lucroy

Betancourt

P

 

It really boosts your lineup honestly considering Rickie is in a run producing spot, and Hart is in a spot where he's seen a lot better power numbers. T-Plush is in a spot better suited for his skills as well.