Rich Harden to A's

[RockCoCougars]

One year, $1.5 million plus a possible extra $1.5 million in incentives. Let's just say that I'm extremely frustrated that Melvin didn't make a push for this guy....

[greeg35]

I like the market this sets for Webb, though...

[craigharmann]

While I wouldn't have been too upset with Harden, Webb is the guy I really want DM to target. Hopefully there's a push to get him.

[BREWCREW5]

Let's just say that I'm extremely frustrated that Melvin didn't make a push for this guy....

You were extremely frustrated that Melvin didnt sign Sheets last year as well. We know how that turned out (as many expected, Sheets gets injured and was done for the year).

 

Harden was terrible last year (5.58 ERA). He never stays healthy, and has never pitched over 189 innings ever in his career. If Melvin did sign him and did expect him in the rotation as our number 4, he should be fired.

[RockCoCougars]

Let's just say that I'm extremely frustrated that Melvin didn't make a push for this guy....

You were extremely frustrated that Melvin didnt sign Sheets last year as well. We know how that turned out (as many expected, Sheets gets injured and was done for the year).

 

Harden was terrible last year (5.58 ERA). He never stays healthy, and has never pitched over 189 innings ever in his career. If Melvin did sign him and did expect him in the rotation as our number 4, he should be fired.

Hindsight is 20/20. Simply put..... 2010 Ben Sheets > 2010 Doug Davis + 2010 LaTroy Hawkins + 2010 Gregg Zaun.

 

Say what you want about Harden, but he's still young and despite a loss of velocity, he still throws harder than anyone currently on the staff not named Gallardo. If Harden is so terrible, I guess that you would rather give Carl Pavano about 15 times the guaranteed money.

[Funketown]

I'm willing to bet there's less than a 10% chance Harden provides > 2.0 WAR next year, and greater than a 60% chance that he provides <.5 WAR next year. His fastball velocity has dropped by nearly four miles per hour in the last few years, and his walk rate is absurd.

 

This guy's toast, and spending $1.5M on him is a bit irresponsible.

[RockCoCougars]

This guy's toast, and spending $1.5M on him is a bit irresponsible.

 

So spending $1.5 million on Craig Counsell is responsible, when he could most likely be very adequately replaced for a minimum salary guy? Since that one may not happen (though I'm betting it will), how about spending $750K on Wil Nieves? For heaven's sake, it's less than the amount of Suppan's buyout. I'm not saying that you endorse(d) these signings, but still.

[Roscoe Chill]

I think $1.5M for Harden is a good move. And it doesn't even necessarily have to be as a starter. Best case scenario is he solidifies the rotation, but he could also come out of the pen, in fact that might be where he belongs now.

[Funketown]

This guy's toast, and spending $1.5M on him is a bit irresponsible.

 

So spending $1.5 million on Craig Counsell is responsible, when he could most likely be very adequately replaced for a minimum salary guy? Since that one may not happen (though I'm betting it will), how about spending $750K on Wil Nieves? For heaven's sake, it's less than the amount of Suppan's buyout. I'm not saying that you endorse(d) these signings, but still.

First of all, I said it's only somewhat irresponsible. I know it's only $1.5 million spent, but it's $1.5 million very poorly spent. As for Counsell, he's an adequate to plus fielder at all four infield positions, and his bat isn't terrible for a plus defender. What does the minimum get you? At best, probably a guy like Joe Inglett. Counsell will most likely provide significantly more value to the Brewers this year than Harden will to the Athletics. As for Nieves, I don't like the signing, but it was a non-guaranteed deal, no?

 

What it really comes down to is that I don't think Rich Harden is even a #5 pitcher at this point. I don't know that much about Harden, and maybe it's possible that he can get it all figured out again. He was just a horrendously bad pitcher last year, worse than Suppan was in his worst season with the Brewers (although Suppan did provide more innings of suck).

[Thurston Fluff]

Say what you want about Harden, but he's still young and despite a loss of velocity, he still throws harder than anyone currently on the staff not named Gallardo.

 

He's also a bullpen killer. His career average innings per game is less than 6 innings. Last season he averaged about 5. For comparisons sake Bradon Looper's last season averaged more innings per start, started 34 games (a number never reached by Harden in his career), and had a lower ERA than Harden had his last year. In other words he has a better season in 08 than Harden had in 09. All that got him was a place in the unemployment line in 09.

 

If Harden is so terrible, I guess that you would rather give Carl Pavano about 15 times the guaranteed money.

 

When did it become either or?

[And That]

The A's signed Harden to come out of the pen. He won't be in their rotation.

[Invader3K]

Another "injury guy" people are fascinated by because of his name that probably isn't going to amount to a hill of beans in 2011.

[TooLiveBrew]

Since that's the case, I like the move for Oakland. There's a chance Harden could be quite good as a reliever, and if that's the case, the A's will have him for peanuts.

[endaround]

Chance that is the deal Milwaukee could get Harden for? 10%?

[BREWCREW5]

If Harden is so terrible, I guess that you would rather give Carl Pavano about 15 times the guaranteed money.

How does my argument about Harden being terrible have anything to do with Pavano?

 

Since you are asking evidently, I would rather the Brewers trade for another starter similar to Marcum from an area of strength in the organization.

 

Harden, as a starter, is a waste of money. If you are frustrated at Melvin for this non move, he isn't ever going to make you happy. My guess is you are upset that he did not sign Cliff Lee as well?

[pretendastronaut]

One year, $1.5 million plus a possible extra $1.5 million in incentives. Let's just say that I'm extremely frustrated that Melvin didn't make a push for this guy....

 

 

 

For the record, I saw a report last week that quoted a source as saying the Brewers were one of the teams who had checked in on Harden.

[RockCoCougars]

I bet that Cleveland fans were saying the same things about Pavano two years ago when he was signed on a similar deal. Now some here want to give him $20 million plus. Sometimes these things pan out, though often they do not. I still think that Harden would have been a worthy addition to the staff as to be brought along slowly as the #5 starter. As for him not coming to Milwaukee on that deal, money talks. I would have given him twice the money- Melvin has certainly given worse guys more money. Harden may be a 'name guy', but he is apparently healthy, I don't think that it's completely out of the realm of possibility that Harden bounces back. He's 29 years old (I guess that you have to be at least 32 years old to be considered by Melvin as a pitcher), and struck out 7.3 per 9 last season (in a down year). It was a fairly uncharacteristic complete lack of control last year that killed him more than anything- not like he was hit like a BP pitcher or anything (his BAA was .256, Gallardo's was .251). Would have been a great low risk- high reward pickup of a power arm (something that this team is severely lacking).

 

I'm going to throw up in my mouth when Counsell is signed for the same amount. Let's face it, he's really only needed to back up shortstop these days (not 'all four infield positions'). The guy is also 40 years old, doesn't hit well enough to justify a role as a pinch hitter, and if anyone is 'toast', he is.

[Invader3K]

We already have a decent and cheap #5 starter in Narveson. Melvin is looking to spend money on someone better than that.

[endaround]

Counsell was worth 0.6 wins last year. Harden was worth -0.7. And again there is no way Harden comes to Milwaukee for the same price he goes to the A's.

[Patrick425]

RockCoCougars[/b]]Let's just say that I'm extremely frustrated that Melvin didn't make a push for this guy....

How do you know he didn't? Hardricourt is not always aware of everything Melvin does. There wasn't a lot of talk (was there any?) of the Brewers possibly acquiring Marcum before that happened. You don't know what you don't know.

 

[Invader3K]

And again, Harden is probably going to be coming out of the bullpen for the A's. Not exactly a position of need for the Brewers. If you want a recovering injury dude out of the bullpen, I'm guessing Chris Capuano will be re-signed for about the same money.

[Warning Track Power]

And again, Harden is probably going to be coming out of the bullpen for the A's. Not exactly a position of need for the Brewers. If you want a recovering injury dude out of the bullpen, I'm guessing Chris Capuano will be re-signed for about the same money.

Great point Invader. I'd much rather have Cappy as the recovering injury dude than Rich Harden. Cappy actually pitched well down the stretch whereas Harden was brutal in 2010.

 

 

[RockCoCougars]

I would assume that Capuano has been offered as much or more than the Harden deal, and he is wavering. Going further, as I said, I would have outbid the A's for Harden. Money talks, so I have no doubt that he would have came to Milwaukee for the right offer.

 

I'll table this for now, but I reserve the right to restart complaining if/when Melvin throws money at a stiff.

[BREWCREW5]

I would assume that Capuano has been offered as much or more than the Harden deal, and he is wavering.

 

 

Going further, as I said, I would have outbid the A's for Harden.

How do you know that Capuano is "wavering". Capuano's agent is probably trying to get the best deal and the most money for his client. That's what agents do.

 

As for you outbidding the A's for Harden is a great example of why you are not a general manager in the big leagues.

[RockCoCougars]

I would assume that Capuano has been offered as much or more than the Harden deal, and he is wavering.

 

 

Going further, as I said, I would have outbid the A's for Harden.

How do you know that Capuano is "wavering". Capuano's agent is probably trying to get the best deal and the most money for his client. That's what agents do.

 

As for you outbidding the A's for Harden is a great example of why you are not a general manager in the big leagues.

Time will tell.... Who would you like to add to the rotation?