Cliff Lee agrees to deal with Phillies

[trwi7]

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[derflotr]

So this signing is basically just the Phillies feeling more comfortable about game 4s in the playoffs, right? It's not like we can say "now this makes them a playoff contender". They were already penciled in as NL East champs just like any other year. I understand it was Lee's choice, but Philly still made an offer. I guess the difference between a Roy Oswalt start and a Joe Blanton start once a series is worth the gajillions they now owe Lee.

[TooLiveBrew]

trwi, that LOL image is hilarious. If BF allowed image signatures, I'd be tempted to use that.

 

 

Haha! Listening to ESPN New York 1050 and the Michael Kay Show (Yankees YES Announcer)

 

Ugh, Kay... he's alright as a p-b-p guy, good voice, doesn't stumble over his words, not a complete homer. But any time you start hearing "analysis" from Kay, it's time to hit the mute button or change the channel (or internets).

[Oldcity]

All I hear when Michael Kay talks is "Alex Rahj-riguez."

[trwi7]

That annoys me too Stevo. Still not as bad as John Sterling though and John Sterling is better than Suzyn Waldman and just keep going down the line.

[joepepsi]

So this signing is basically just the Phillies feeling more comfortable about game 4s in the playoffs, right? It's not like we can say "now this makes them a playoff contender". They were already penciled in as NL East champs just like any other year. I understand it was Lee's choice, but Philly still made an offer. I guess the difference between a Roy Oswalt start and a Joe Blanton start once a series is worth the gajillions they now owe Lee.

Hamels is a free agent after this season. Oswalt has a $16 million club option for 2012, which he has the option to opt out. (Plus Houston sent an $11 million check when they traded him.) Halladay is signed through 2013, with a $20 million option for 2014.

 

So, yeah, they have 4 All Star starters now, when they perhaps only need 3 in the playoffs. But that could be just for this year. I don't know what kind of pitching they have in the minors, but they could certainly let Hamels and/or Oswalt walk after this season. No one other than Lee is signed for a ridiculously long-payroll strangling-period of time.

 

Brilliant signing by the Phillies.

[kramnoj]

Hamels is only signed through 2011, but Cots says that he will have a 4th arb year in 2012. So, he's somewhat similar to Prince in that he signed a deal that included some arb years, but didn't include the final year before free agency.

[joepepsi]

Hamels is only signed through 2011, but Cots says that he will have a 4th arb year in 2012. So, he's somewhat similar to Prince in that he signed a deal that included some arb years, but didn't include the final year before free agency.

Oops, missed that. Thanks for clearing it up.

[crewcrazy]

Not entirely sure on what the yearly breakdown for Lee will look like, but there's a chance that at 5/$120MM, the Phillies will be paying a combined $49 million in 2015 to Lee and Ryan Howard alone. That year, Lee will be 36 and Howard will be 35. And that would be a relief compared to 2014, when they're scheduled to pay around $69 million combined for Lee, Howard, and Roy Halladay. Yikes.

[danzig6767]

Not entirely sure on what the yearly breakdown for Lee will look like, but there's a chance that at 5/$120MM, the Phillies will be paying a combined $49 million in 2015 to Lee and Ryan Howard alone. That year, Lee will be 36 and Howard will be 35. And that would be a relief compared to 2014, when they're scheduled to pay around $69 million combined for Lee, Howard, and Roy Halladay. Yikes.

If the Phillies can manage to win another World Series or two over the next three-four years while also winning a ton of games during that time, i'd say it will be well worth whatever potential dead money they'll be facing on the tail end up these long term deals.

[logan82]

Lee didn't really take much less to sign with the Phillies instead of the Yankees. 5/$120 or 7/$148. The Phillies actually offered more per year. If Lee gets that last year vested it becomes 6/$147. The Yankees got outbid.

 

I was actually hoping the Yankees would sign Lee because I want the system to look as broken as it feels. If the Yankees signed every top FA every single year at some point somebody has to realize things are broken, right?

[Warning Track Power]

I was actually hoping the Yankees would sign Lee because I want the system to look as broken as it feels. If the Yankees signed every top FA every single year at some point somebody has to realize things are broken, right?

Absolutely...However, I think everyone is starting to recognize that it's not just the Yankees anymore. Now that the Phillies are also engaging in such ridiculous contracts it just furthers the disparities between big and small markets in general. Rather than MLB execs giving us the same tired reasons of the Yankees being the only team who has a payroll outside of the stratosphere, the Red Sox and Phillies are now closing the gap giving the big markets a broad advantage over the small and medium markets. This is bad short term for small markets but good long term for the need for a change.

[logan82]

I don't have a problem with the players getting paid. I don't want to see the money go into the owners' pockets. I just want to see every team with $50m. That way the rich teams would still be able to sign a couple more big name guys but every team would be able to keep at least one of their guys through their whole careers. I have to be honest that I feel no connection to any players right now. I know they are all going to move on at some point so why should I?

[CheezWizHed]

So this signing is basically just the Phillies feeling more comfortable about game 4s in the playoffs, right? It's not like we can say "now this makes them a playoff contender". They were already penciled in as NL East champs just like any other year. I understand it was Lee's choice, but Philly still made an offer. I guess the difference between a Roy Oswalt start and a Joe Blanton start once a series is worth the gajillions they now owe Lee.

 

You forget that this also takes him away from the Phillies competition for the WS. Even if he doesn't pitch, he isn't pitching against them either.

[logan82]

So this signing is basically just the Phillies feeling more comfortable about game 4s in the playoffs, right? It's not like we can say "now this makes them a playoff contender". They were already penciled in as NL East champs just like any other year. I understand it was Lee's choice, but Philly still made an offer. I guess the difference between a Roy Oswalt start and a Joe Blanton start once a series is worth the gajillions they now owe Lee.

 

You forget that this also takes him away from the Phillies competition for the WS. Even if he doesn't pitch, he isn't pitching against them either.

I think it was mentioned that many of their pitchers are only signed for a couple years so this is a move for 2012 and beyond also. It also protects them from having an injury hurt their season much.

[ecjimg]

Doesn't the MLBPA put pressure on free agents to take the largest offer available? I thought this was part of the decision that CC made. Seems like he used this excuse to get out of milwaukee.

I think Sabathia was just looking for the most money possible. The "union pressure" thing is a convenient excuse. Guys can sign where they want. The union can't force someone to work somewhere they don't want to.

 

And then Sabathia says today, regarding Lee and his desicion:

 

"Like he said, when you're comfortable in a place, money really plays no role in that. Philly was a place he pitched in before and he made the decision that was best for him and his family, trying to win a championship with a good team."

 

Come on CC, admit that, for you, it was all about the money.

 

[sveumrules]

The money was surely nice but I'd gladly bet anyone that the Yankees end up with more playoff appearances and world series titles over the course of CC's contract that the Brewers do. They already have leads of 2-0 and 1-0 of course. It's not like he took the extra 60 million to play for Pittsburgh.

 

The thing that confuses me about Lee is he seems like a pretty smart guy (for a baseball player!) so why would he want so badly to go back to the team that traded him when he didn't really want to be traded in the first place? Between bungling the Lee situation and the Howard extension Amaro's getting to be in Minaya/Moore territory. Luckily he inherited a loaded team and has a lot of resources available to him.

 

I'm pretty sure the main reasons Lee wanted to go back to Philly were Roy, Roy, Cole and no DH, but if I were a top free agent I'd be putting a lot of stock into the GM/organization when making my decision and I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable if I knew Amaro was the one constructing the team around me.

[GAME05]

there would have been a lot less pressure for CC in New York than Milwaukee, ironically. in NY he's one of a handful of incredible players, but after the half-season he had here, we would have expected him to be 25-2 every season and pitch every third day.

[Invader3K]

I don't know. I lost some respect for Sabathia when that quote came out from him about how the Indians traded him away and he had nothing to do with it.

[danzig6767]

Man, the Geinke trade has made me completely change how i view the Lee signing by the Phillies.

 

When he first signed there, i took some pleasure in seeing the Yankees for once lose out when they tried flexing their financial muscle to get whatever elite free agent they chose to target. Now that we have Greinke though, i actually feel like the Brewers have a legit shot to reach the postseason and if so, the Phillies could be a team we had to face.

 

It would be a bummer if say the Brewers reached the NLCS vs Philly and Lee played a key role in beating us.

[TooLiveBrew]

When he first signed there, i took some pleasure in seeing the Yankees for once lose out when they tried flexing their financial muscle to get whatever elite free agent they chose to target. Now that we have Greinke though, i actually feel like the Brewers have a legit shot to reach the postseason and if so, the Phillies could be a team we had to face.

 

This was my point at the time -- Philly isn't some 'little guy' to empathize with. They're another huge market team that's more direct competition for the Brewers.

[logan82]

When he first signed there, i took some pleasure in seeing the Yankees for once lose out when they tried flexing their financial muscle to get whatever elite free agent they chose to target. Now that we have Greinke though, i actually feel like the Brewers have a legit shot to reach the postseason and if so, the Phillies could be a team we had to face.

 

This was my point at the time -- Philly isn't some 'little guy' to empathize with. They're another huge market team that's more direct competition for the Brewers.

The Phillies are not some small guy to empathize with but they are not the Yankees. We will see how the payrolls turn out for 2011 but typically there are the middle guys, the rich guys then the Yankees. They are almost as far above the other top guys as the top guys are above the middle guys.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yes, but any feelgood talk about how nice it is to see the big bad Yankees miss out on a star FA is entirely canceled out (if not moreso) by the fact that Lee signed with Philly, another team the Brewers can't compete with economically. The Yanks missing on Lee doesn't do anything for me as a fan. It doesn't 'send a message' or 'make a statement' about future FA signings. It's nothing to celebrate in terms of the Brewers. It just meant Lee really, really wanted to get back with the Phillies & took the best offer they were willing to make (actually a kind of 'hometown discount' contract)

[logan82]

If the rumors about the Yankees offer are true he really didn't give the Phillies much of a discount. The Yankees offered 7/$148 I believe. He is getting more per year from the Phillies and can almost match the total money in one less year if his 2016 option is picked up or vested.

• 5 years/$120M (2011-15), plus 2016 option
  
  • signed by Philadelphia as a free agent 12/14/10
  • 11:$11M, 12:$21.5M, 13:$25M, 14:$25M, 15:$25M, 16:$27.5M club option ($12.5M buyout)
  • option becomes guaranteed with 200 IP in 2015 or 400 IP in 2014-15
    
  • limited no-trade protection

I would like to see all teams within $50m. That way the rich teams can still sign a couple more players than the bottom teams but every team can keep one or two of their stars for their entire careers.

[GAME05]

eh, i can't think of a time where i could blame the quality of another team for the Brewers being bad. plus if it wasn't the Phillies being so good next year, then it'd just be another team that was.