Matt Garza?

[trwi7]

His changeup has been worth 60 runs the past 5 years though and we know the Brewers love a good changeup. Plus, if Shields actually is cheaper prospect/player wise to acquire, he'd be preferred to me, especially since he potentially has an extra year of control.

[dadofandrew]

Shields does not project as well, but he'll also be cheaper and locked up until '13 with \no long-term commitment if injured. I have nothing against Shields, look at those innings totals.

[BrewCrewForever]

I would rahter have Shields than Pavano. But I would not give up as much for Shields as I would for Garza.

[And That]

I like Shields, I think he's arguably as good as Garza. However, if both were available for the same price, I'd rather have Garza just because it would give the Brewers two "power" guys in the rotation. Shields is pretty similar to Marcum - they both rely on their changeups and have reverse platoon splits (although Shields' split isn't as distinct), essentially allowing opposing teams to be predominately right-handed against the Brewers rotation. Differentiation has at least a little value.

 

That said, if the price for Shields is distinctly lower than the price for Garza, go and get Shields.

[Bombers]

According to this post on a Rays Fansite, they debate over what the Brewers would offer for Garza. Seems like they think it would be worth Gamel and Lucroy. It seems like their fans have some interest in Gamel as he is the subject of their discussion in the comments part.

[PilprinBuddha]

I would struggle giving up Lucroy.....but....I'd offer Cain instead

[BrewCrewForever]

I really believe that Garza could be the missing link in our rotation. If they can swing a trade for him, I think our rotation coupled with our offense can compete and have a good shot to win the NL Central. I just hope Doug has the intestinal fortitude to make a trade. I understand you have to give up some prospects, but as long as you don't have to mortgage the farm it would be worth it.

[endaround]

There is no farm to give up. I think this is what people aren't getting. Without Lawrie the three best Brewer prospects are Rogers who has a huge injury question to go with spotty control, Jeffress who many see as a reliever, and Odorizzi who is a pitcher yet to touch AA. There aren't any sure things left. So it would take moving Cain, Escobar, or Lucroy and that hurts next years team (Gamel's value has likely fallen off greatly)

[Invader3K]

Endaround, I agree. I don't see how adding Greinke but going from Cain/Escobar/Lucroy to Gomez/Counsell/Kottaras (or some variation thereof), as some are suggesting, really makes the team any better.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Trade Cain and stick Hart in CF and Gamel in RF. If the Brewers trade Escobar they need to sign a player who plays good defense to replace him. Doesn't have to be a big bat or anything special in that regard. The Brewers will survive. I don't really expect much out of Escobar or Cain for that matter in 2011 anyways. Escobar has been struggling as of late and in regards to Cain who knows how well he will do in 2011?

 

Another option would be a 3-team trade.

[Jaylyn]

I wonder if a Gamel/Jeffress/Merklinger for Garza offer would get it done? Not enough? Add in Parra. 2011 is the last year before this team has to reload. I'm resigned to the fact that Prince is going to leave and have a feeling Weeks will go with him. Hold on to Cain.

[monty57]

As Endaround said, our farm (particularly position-wise) is getting thin. What I like about the possibility of adding a Garza or Shields is that we will have most of our team locked up for the foreseeable future, so we won't have as big a need for MLB-ready prospects for a couple years. We're apparently discussing extensions with Marcum and Weeks, so if we add a Garza or Shields, we would essentially have every position on the field except 1B locked up for at least three years. As our minor league pitchers get MLB-ready, it should be easy to trade a Marcum, Yo, Garza, Wolf, etc to add more position players if needed.

The big question Endaround posed is whether we could land a Garza or Shields without including players that are big parts of our future, thereby creating a hole somewhere in the roster. We have Gamel, who will be without a role in 2011, but is the logical choice to take over for Prince when he leaves. We have a plethora of CFs, which is why Cain's name is being thrown around. Gomez may not be good, but he is young and under team control, so he is a ready-made replacement if Cain were traded. We also have a lot of young, talented bullpen arms, potentially making someone like Axford expendable. However, we've been throwing away money in the 'pen for years, and it's nice to finally have a cheap, talented 'pen, so we have money to put elsewhere. Finally, we do have talented young arms in the minors who could be used. If we indeed could lock up Yo, Marcum and Garza/Shields for the next 3-4 years along with Wolf for the next 2, we could spare some young arms.

I hope Melvin is able to put together a deal that will allow us to land a Garza or Shields without creating a hole elsewhere. I think this move could set us up to be a serious contender for the NL Central for at least the next 3-4 years.

[RockCoCougars]

I just don't want to move Cain, and I don't see how you can trade Lucroy at this point either. Every decent FA catcher is now gone. Frankly, I'd be more willing to trade Escobar at this point, but he wouldn't be easily replaced either.

 

I wonder if a deal of the following could get Garza:

 

McGehee (if the Rays see him as a 2nd baseman)

Jeffress or Rogers

One other pitcher in the low minors

Gomez

[TooLiveBrew]

Via TH's latest blog post, Andrew Friedman isn't looking to move a starting pitcher.

“I’ve said before that it’s not a situation we look at like having two first basemen. We were very fortunate last year until August that all of our guys took the ball every five days. It doesn’t always happen that way, and depth on the starting pitching front is more valuable than anywhere else. Our focus is on making deals that fit in our short term and long term objectives, and without pinning it to any one area, we’re always going to be open minded to something that fits that criteria. But as far as our motivation [to trade a SP]? No, that remains the same.”

I thought it was a bit curious that TH said, "unless Friedman is posturing for some reason...", as though a GM in Friedman's position *wouldn't* have a potential reason to posture. Oh well. Honestly I'm not sure this changes anything; seems like this has been the message from Tampa's F.O. all offseason. However, there have been enough leaks of 'Rays looking to deal ____' & the Rays' own admission they need to shed salary, that I think it's a matter of when & not if for them to move a SP. I think they'll only move one, though.

 

Interesting to note that Marc Topkin doesn't mention the Brewers at all in this article. He specifically mentions the Cubs & Rangers on Garza, and the Rockies on Shields.

[nate82]

I don't see the Rays trading any of their starting pitching unless they are extremely overtaken by an offer ...... Right now the Rays are just listening and they are really not at a point where they have to trade anyone and it looks as though they do not want to trade anyone unless they get that perfect deal.

This couldnt be further from the truth. The Rays are very motivated to move salary. They need to cut another $10M, give or take, to get to the publicly stated number of 53M. Garza is in his second year of arby and is going to command over 5M. Shields is already signed for 4.25M. While Shields is certainly just as much a candidate as Garza, somebody is going to go. The Rays will be trading somebody. Price, Niemann, Davis, Sonnastine, Hellickson are all viable in that rotation without mentioning Shields and Garza. Somebody,maybe both. is going to go. They don't need to be blown away with prospects, they just need to pull the trigger on the best deal for them that dumps salary and gets the most in return.

Proving my point that the Rays are not in a hurry to trade their pitching.

“I’ve said before that it’s not a situation we look at like having

two first basemen. We were very fortunate last year until August that

all of our guys took the ball every five days. It doesn’t always happen

that way, and depth on the starting pitching front is more valuable than

anywhere else,” Friedman said.

From http://www.tampabay.com/b...not-looking-deal-starter

 

The Rays are not going to trade Garza or Shields unless they get the right package for them. Which means something centered around Cain, Jeffress, and another high prospect like Rogers or Odorizzi.

[Hate those Rodents]

I had thought for about six months now that McGehee might be the one shipped to help our rotation. I hope Melvin's at least floated his name out there. I'd be interested in hearing what teams would give up for him.

[endaround]

The problem has been the teams looking to trade pitching, KC and Tampa, don't really need McGehee. KC is loaded at the corners and Tampa has Longoria. Now if the Marlins start shopping Nolasco that could be a match.

[Hate those Rodents]

Dare I say that four years of McGehee is slightly more valuable than two years of Nolasco and that Florida would need to throw in a sweetener???

[wallus]

I would do McGehee for Nolasco personally.

[colbyjack]

If the reported Greinke trade is anywhere close to being true, I'm curious how many people would prefer a trade of Cain and Jeffress to the Rays for Garza? Escobar obviously stays put since the Rays have Reid Brignac, and the Rays still address two potential needs (if Upton is indeed on the block).

[TooLiveBrew]

Even though the Brewers would keep Escobar, I just couldn't put a potential Garza deal ahead of getting Greinke. I still believe that Escobar will hit, but even so, Greinke is just too good.

[GoudaBrew]

Bumping this because the Cubs may be on the verge of aquiring Garza for 4 prospects. Adding Garza would certainly make them a lot more pesky in the NL central race.

 

Cubs, Rays Working On Garza Trade

[patrickgpe]

nsbb seems alot like brewerfan.net the day of the Greinke trade. They are not happy about giving up Archer and overall think they gave up too much. Pitchers are expensive, which is why i supported the Greinke trade.

[Bankjob]

Looks to be done. 5 players go to the Rays.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com...&source=CHICAGOHeadlines

[RedFlash2]

nsbb seems alot like brewerfan.net the day of the Greinke trade. They are not happy about giving up Archer and overall think they gave up too much. Pitchers are expensive, which is why i supported the Greinke trade.

Well the people at nsbb tend to overthink everything. The deal, imo, is essentially Archer/Lee for Garza. Not great, by no means, but not horrible.