Matt Garza?

[reillymcshane]

Why would Garza cost so much more than Marcum?

 

http://www.fantasyplaymak...sons.php?compare_id=9981

i'd guess the extra year we'd get him, plus the very high upside of Lawrie.

 

Just a guess.

[Schlitz001]

The extra year of control, health and age make Garza a little more expensive than Marcum. I don't see why the Rays would want Gomez or really Gamel for that matter. Gomez is not good and they have a pretty good long term option at third.

[trwi7]

I could see the Rays liking Gamel. They're going to lose Pena to free agency and their only option right now is Dan Johnson. Gamel could also DH.

[Warning Track Power]

I want this deal to get done but I am not comfortable with trading Cain AND Gamel without some sort of corresponding deal of Fielder to fill those holes. If Cain and Gamel are part of a trade for Garza, CF would be manned by Gomez/Dickerson (yuck) and whatever happens with Fielder will create a hole at 1B, even if its 2012 before that occurs.

[TooLiveBrew]

If the Brewers would send Cain, Gamel, & Jeffress, I'd want the Rays to include B.J. Upton. Not sure if the Brewers would have to send more to TB to get that done.

[Invader3K]

If the Brewers would send Cain, Gamel, & Jeffress, I'd want the Rays to include B.J. Upton. Not sure if the Brewers would have to send more to TB to get that done.

You wouldn't think so with the salary the Brewers would be taking on. Having Upton for two years (I think) would be a nice bridge gap until someone like Schaefer or Komatsu was ready.

[TooLiveBrew]

Plus Upton would fit right into Runnin' Ron's plans. I'd actually love to add a guy that's good for 40+ SB while only getting caught 10-15 times. Fwiw, his career success rate is 76%.

 

The Rays are actively looking to shed salary, and getting MLB-ready (or near) guys like Gamel, Cain, & Jeffress would seem to be a good fit for them to remain competitive.

[paul253]

Cain, Gamel, and Jeffress for Garza and Upton is a deal I would do. The farm system would be absolutely devoid of position prospects though. Who would our top positional prospects be? Kentrail Davis and Scooter Gennett? Not that that is something that would prevent me from making the deal, I'm just saying.

[Invader3K]

Gindl, Schafer, Green, Komatsu...

 

Not saying all those guys will make it or the system would be overloaded with position studs. Just that I don't think giving up both Cain and Gamel would be the end of the world. CF is a position of depth for the Brewers organization. Gamel would hurt a bit more because of the uncertainty with Fielder.

[Hate those Rodents]

I agree TLB. I'd certainly look into Garza/Upton together first, provided the Rays at least acknowledge the large benefit they are gaining from the salary dump. If the Rays think adding Upton to the deal means they get TWO more "studs" from us, then it'd be time to focus just on Garza.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think if I'm Andrew Friedman, I have no urgent reason to move Upton. He's still pretty cheap this season ($3M arbitration salary) and has good upside. The Rays are supposedly "motivated to deal" Garza, though.

 

From my (Brewers fanboy) p.o.v., Gamel/Jeffress/Cain is overpaying for two seasons of a relatively expensive Garza. However, I do think the Crew would have to add onto that offer to pry away Upton, who also has two years of team salary control remaining.

[reillymcshane]

From my (Brewers fanboy) p.o.v., Gamel/Jeffress/Cain is overpaying for two seasons of a relatively expensive Garza.

I believe Garza is under control for 3 years. He was a super-2.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Garza is controlled for three seasons. I'd do Gamel/Jeffress/Cain if that is what it took for Garza

[Invader3K]

From my (Brewers fanboy) p.o.v., Gamel/Jeffress/Cain is overpaying for two seasons of a relatively expensive Garza. However, I do think the Crew would have to add onto that offer to pry away Upton, who also has two years of team salary control remaining.

 

Not to nit pick, but we'd have Garza for three years.

[TooLiveBrew]

Good call, my mistake

[Mr Southpaw]

Prince $14 mill, Rivas and Heckathorn ( maybe Wily P) for Garza. Prince is a perfect fit for one year (for free people!). The other two will be 4-5 types. If I am Tampa and want to win now, this is a very good option.

[jjkoestler]

Prince $14 mill, Rivas and Heckathorn ( maybe Wily P) for Garza. Prince is a perfect fit for one year (for free people!). The other two will be 4-5 types. If I am Tampa and want to win now, this is a very good option.

If Melvin made this trade I would become a Cubs fan.

[colbyjack]

We've talked about this before, but I don't see any way that the Brewers trade Fielder and include any money in the deal. And because of that he's not going to Tampa who clearly are trying to shed as much payroll as possible.

 

Cain, Gamel and Jeffress does make a lot of sense, especially if Upton were part of a proposed deal. That's a lot of money coming back the Brewers way and a lot of pre-FA years to the Rays in areas they need help.

 

I think Cain's "availability" was conveniently crafted by Melvin and the media to help his value. Of course they're not looking to trade him, but if the right deal comes along...

[Invader3K]

You're probably right about the Cain availability issue, colby. There's a lot of gamesmanship that goes on during this time of year. Funny thing is that this seems to have picked up quite a bit of steam. ESPN has a write up on Cain in their Insider section (nothing earth shattering), etc.

[And That]

I have the Brewers' 2011 payroll obligations right now at a little over $70M. That number doesn't include any of Wolf's deferred money or buyouts paid. I could be off by a few million either way, depending on how arbitration goes.

 

Anyway, my point is... adding Garza and Upton would add somewhere between $8-$12 million to that (net of salaries sent to Tampa Bay). That probably puts the Brewers pretty close to as much money as they want to spend this year.

[sbrylski]

Though I think he's talked up a little too much by some here, Garza is definitely a nice target. However, I don't really think he's worth going after if we have to do a Cain-Upton swap.

 

Apart from the money Upton will start to earn, his OBP the last two seasons was .313 and .322. Also, don't forget this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEgmW8IPb88

 

I don't really want anything to do with him.

[Oldcity]

Similar to Marcum, Garza seems like a great quick-strike target while teams are still waiting around on Lee and Greinke. It sounds like some teams are seeing Garza as a backup plan if they can't get either of those two. I'd love to see Doug move quickly on this one.

[UeckerAddict]

Similar to Marcum, Garza seems like a great quick-strike target while teams are still waiting around on Lee and Greinke. It sounds like some teams are seeing Garza as a backup plan if they can't get either of those two. I'd love to see Doug move quickly on this one.

True, but if Tampa Bay is aware that everyone who doesn't

get Lee or Greinke is going to come calling, don't you figure they'll

probably hang onto him until then?

[danzig6767]

We've talked about this before, but I don't see any way that the Brewers trade Fielder and include any money in the deal. And because of that he's not going to Tampa who clearly are trying to shed as much payroll as possible.

 

Cain, Gamel and Jeffress does make a lot of sense, especially if Upton were part of a proposed deal. That's a lot of money coming back the Brewers way and a lot of pre-FA years to the Rays in areas they need help.

 

I think Cain's "availability" was conveniently crafted by Melvin and the media to help his value. Of course they're not looking to trade him, but if the right deal comes along...

How much money is Upton roughly supposed to make this year?

 

Unlike Gomez, Upton does have some history of fabulous production even though that production has lessened over the last two seasons. If somehow we acquired him in a major deal with Tampa and Upton had a bounce back season in the .800 plus OPS range to go with the speed he has, that could be a real coup for the Brewers. Upton's raw tools are off the charts and again unlike Gomez who has some of the same raw tools, Upton isn't clueless at the plate as evidenced by his 314 walks in 2435 at bats, pretty good power for a CF, and two years with a .273/.300 average.

 

For a fairly small market team like the Brewers, acquiring a still pretty young guy like Upton with his huge amount of natural skills would excite me almost as much as Garza because if we got lucky and BJ returned to his 2007 form, the Brewers would have added one of the most dynamic players in the game along with another quality starter. I really like the idea of trying to steal a big time talent who struggled some the last two years because without those struggles, a player like Upton would basically be off limits to the Brewers unless we had drafted him.

[danzig6767]

Though I think he's talked up a little too much by some here, Garza is definitely a nice target. However, I don't really think he's worth going after if we have to do a Cain-Upton swap.

 

Apart from the money Upton will start to earn, his OBP the last two seasons was .313 and .322. Also, don't forget this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEgmW8IPb88

 

I don't really want anything to do with him.

I'd be more concerned if Upton was a type of free swinging hitter that rarely walked, but that isn't the case. As i said in a previous post, he has 314 walks in 2435 career at bats. His poor OBP the last two years was driven primarily by poor batting averages, but the two years prior, Upton posted on base numbers of .386/.383, largely because of his higher .273/.300 batting averages. BJ has been unlike Carlos Gomez where batting average and BB numbers consistently stunk in each MLB season.

 

When Doug traded for Gomez, one argument used in favor of the trade by some Brewer fans was that small market teams sometimes need to take a chance on big time athletes with some high level talents, but that have not performed up to expectations because they can be had cheaper than at earlier times. I tend to lean that way and Upton at least has shown extended periods of brilliance on the field, is still only 26, and should be entering into his prime years.

 

If Cain was traded somewhere, i'd be absolutely thrilled if Melvin was able to acquire Upton to play CF, even if it wasn't in a bigger trade to get Garza.