Brewers acquire Shaun Marcum for Brett Lawrie 1 for 1; 3/24/12 -- Jayson Stark article

[YoungGeezy]

Doesn't matter if he he profiles as a #3 or $4 and pitches like a #2, makes no difference, all that matters is this guy has pitched extremely well the last two seasons not just in the American League but in the toughest divison in all of baseball. Trading Yankees, Red Sox, Rays and O's for Cards, Cubs, Astros, and Pirates, are you joking me ha, he must feel as if he is in heaven!

 

People put way to much emphasis on, WOW he is 6'5 and throws 95 he is a #1 or oh he is 6'0 and throws 90, the guy is no better than a #3 or #4. Really all I care about is if this guy can 1) not give up runs 2) keep a good Whip and not walk many batters 3) make it though 5 or 6 innings without a major meltdown (something Bush, Parra, Suppan, Davis, and many more Brewer pitchers struggle greatly with). If he can do those, he is in great shape and I don't care if he is just a smart #4, he is doing the job very well and that will translate into Brewer wins.

[homer]

Marcum is supposedly a really good hitter.

Just curious what this is based on? He only has 13 career plate appearances, so you couldn't draw any conclusions either way, but even if you relied on that small sample he has a .250 OBP and .200 SLG in those limited opportunities. In the interview he did with Toronto radio, his tone was very apprehensive about batting regularly and he described his career at bats in an almost fearful-sounding way. "You couldn't get me out of the box soon enough ... I don't know how hitters do it." (paraphrase)

I believe I read it in an article on some other site that Marcum is both a solid fielder and hitter. Hence the word 'supposedly' because there isn't really data pointing one direction or another.

[Baldkin]

A control pitcher that throws 90 vs. a "thrower" that throws 95. If both age and lose 2 MPH off the fastball, which one has more leeway to still pitch well? I would tend to think the harder thrower is more likely to get better results. For every Maddux, there is Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan; both can be done, but its just less room for error with the softer throwing pitchers.

 

But I would also say that Marcum at 29 is several years away from worrying about losing much via age. We should easily get 3-4 years before worrying about that.

Yeah, because Maddux pitched so much worse than Pedro when they both lost some velocity.

 

Ridiculous. A guy who can keep the movment on his pitches and can hit is spots is way better off than a FB reliant pitcher who loses his FB.

[bucksbeat]

Have to agree that I don't understand the difference between being a flamethrower and being a location pitcher if both result in success. The fact that Marcum shows an excellent changeup makes that fastball look faster. As long as the numbers are there I'll take any kind of thrower. There's a lot of nitpicking.

[EbbaStClaire]

Yesterday, I went to the MLB archived 2010 Toronto games and watched a few innings of Marcum's first two starts. On opening day against the Rangers I watched 3 or 4 innings. I don't believe I saw a fastball that exceeded 86 mph and his change-up was in the low 80's. I thought I was watching Trevor Hoffman. After pitching 10 innings of Spring Baseball, Marcum pitched into the 7th inning as was very effective. I then watched a couple of innings of his second start against Baltimore. During his 2nd start one of the broadcasters mentioned that Marcum had thrown 46 change-ups opening day out of 96 pitches. This analysis had been done by someone after Marcum's 1st start but Marcum said he had also done an analysis of the pitches he thrrew opening day and he had thrown sbout 25 change-ups. The point is that after the fact it was hard to tell what pitches he threw let alone the batters figuring out in real time. Most importantly everything he threw moved a lot. During his second start he pitched much differently. He did throw 89 mph fastballs that were a lot straighter than his 85-86 mph fastball and he threw more breaking pitches. It does seem as if he has an array of pitches that he can select from and most move a lot. It was fun to watch him pitch.

[Ennder]

I would think the guy who relies on control would be hurt less by losing 2 MPH than the guy who just chucks in up there as fast as he can. The change up tends to age better than just about any other pitch in my experience. As long as you don't lose so much velocity on the fastball that the change up starts looking the same you are ok.

[fondybrewfan]

If John Axford lost 2 MPH on his fastball he would basically suck. How many hard throwers have really good secondary pitches? Only the elite ones do; if they lose velocity on the fastball they will fall fast and fall hard.

[Ennder]

ZiPs has us at the following for those that like that kind of thing.

 

Gallardo - 3.49

Marcum - 3.79 (Blue Jays projection)

Wolf - 4.09

Narveson - 4.76

 

(Capuano - 4.29)

 

If we can find another Wolf quality pitcher somehow that is looking like it could be one of our better overall rotations to start a season in a while. It obviously most likely will not match the Sabathia+Sheets year in overall production.

[giffted1]

ZiPs has us at the following for those that like that kind of thing.

 

Gallardo - 3.49

Marcum - 3.79 (Blue Jays projection)

Wolf - 4.09

Narveson - 4.76

 

(Capuano - 4.29)

 

If we can find another Wolf quality pitcher somehow that is looking like it could be one of our better overall rotations to start a season in a while. It obviously most likely will not match the Sabathia+Sheets year in overall production.

It's hard not to be optimistic looking at those numbers. Even if Doug is unable to add another Wolf quality pitcher, our rotation wouldn't look too bad with Capuano's projection in there. Given that our offense continues to produce like it has, we will contend.

[joepepsi]

ZiPs has us at the following for those that like that kind of thing.

 

Gallardo - 3.49

Marcum - 3.79 (Blue Jays projection)

Wolf - 4.09

Narveson - 4.76

 

(Capuano - 4.29)

 

If we can find another Wolf quality pitcher somehow that is looking like it could be one of our better overall rotations to start a season in a while. It obviously most likely will not match the Sabathia+Sheets year in overall production.

I hear that Dave Bush guy is looking for work.....

[CheezWizHed]

Yeah, because Maddux pitched so much worse than Pedro when they both lost some velocity.

 

Ridiculous. A guy who can keep the movment on his pitches and can hit is spots is way better off than a FB reliant pitcher who loses his FB.

 

You might notice that I use "probably" and "likely" quite a bit when posting these types of things. That's because no number of good and bad examples of other pitchers will ever describe what will happen as Marcum ages.

 

You might also notice that I already used Maddux as an example of the best case example for soft tossers. I could find lots of examples of soft tossers that lost a few MPH and lost it completely (Suppan). There are also examples of hard tossers that became "smart" as they aged (Hoffman). But none of that helps predict Marcum.

 

My only summary point was that in general, soft tossers have less room for error. Not sure how that is "ridiculous"....

 

FWIW, I'm glad the Brewers acquired Marcum.

[GAME05]

nobody sees Rogers as the #5 starter for next year? obviously we'll want to limit his innings, but he could do that with skipped starts and all. i'd enjoy seeing Capuano pitch again, but just curious why Rogers' name hasn't been mentioned yet as a rotation possibility.

[ELCABALLO45]

ZiPs has us at the following for those that like that kind of thing.

 

Gallardo - 3.49

Marcum - 3.79 (Blue Jays projection)

Wolf - 4.09

Narveson - 4.76

 

(Capuano - 4.29)

 

If we can find another Wolf quality pitcher somehow that is looking like it could be one of our better overall rotations to start a season in a while. It obviously most likely will not match the Sabathia+Sheets year in overall production.

What is Pavano's projection? Just wondering.

[igor67]

I see Rogers as the natural call-up for the inevitable injury. And I'd rather be calling up a serious prospect when that happens than a guy who was a NRI in spring training, which is a lot of what we have done over the years.

[Ennder]

What is Pavano's projection? Just wondering.

They release a couple teams each week and haven't gotten to the Twins yet. Bill James has him down for a 4.34 ERA but never a fan of those projections. Pavano is going to be impossible to project ERA wise anyway, he just lets too many balls in play so he is at the whim of the defesne/BABIP/LOB%.

 

[HiAndTight]

Yeah, because Maddux pitched so much worse than Pedro when they both lost some velocity.

 

Ridiculous. A guy who can keep the movment on his pitches and can hit is spots is way better off than a FB reliant pitcher who loses his FB.

 

You might notice that I use "probably" and "likely" quite a bit when posting these types of things. That's because no number of good and bad examples of other pitchers will ever describe what will happen as Marcum ages.

 

You might also notice that I already used Maddux as an example of the best case example for soft tossers. I could find lots of examples of soft tossers that lost a few MPH and lost it completely (Suppan). There are also examples of hard tossers that became "smart" as they aged (Hoffman). But none of that helps predict Marcum.

 

My only summary point was that in general, soft tossers have less room for error. Not sure how that is "ridiculous"....

 

FWIW, I'm glad the Brewers acquired Marcum.

I've been arguing the same case...the same case that was seemingly the sentiment of the board as whole PRIOR to this trade. Now we make this trade and our perfection of reality changes somehow?

[Ennder]

I've been arguing the same case...the same case that was seemingly the sentiment of the board as whole PRIOR to this trade. Now we make this trade and our perfection of reality changes somehow?

 

Maybe different people are posting than before? I don't know where it was discussed previously but if you live by the fastball you are going to be hurt more by a loss of velocity than if you live by off speed stuff and location. Even the really good fastball guys evolve into more offspeed type guys with age, even guys like Randy Johnson did that.

[GAME05]

I've been arguing the same case...the same case that was seemingly the

sentiment of the board as whole PRIOR to this trade. Now we make this

trade and our perception of reality changes somehow?

 

you probably have something there. i blame Kyle Peterson. i used to hate soft-tossers, but now it's hard to figure that a soft-tosser walks any thinner of a line between being good and bad than a fastball pitcher does.

[BrewCrewForever]

Did anyone else hear that Marcum will be in town tomorrow for a press conference? I thought I heard it on the radio the other day.

[Team Canada]

Yes, 1pm.

[hawing]

Did anyone else hear that Marcum will be in town tomorrow for a press conference? I thought I heard it on the radio the other day.

Yeah, it's his birthday, even. Welcome Shaun!

[BrewCrewForever]

No better place to spend a birthday than Milwaukee!

 

Hopefully Brewers.com will have video of the presser.

[Mass Haas]

And what if the Blue Jays had waited until after the Cliff Lee decision to make known Shaun Marcum was available.

 

Nice job pulling the trigger, Doug.

 

It's incredible what leverage those clubs willing to offer offering established pitching now have.

[Invader3K]

Mass, yeah, I'm even more glad Melvin made this move when he did. I don't think we could get Marcum for just Lawrie at this point.

[joshua502000]

No doubt! Making this move has been a great Christmas present for me. It is interesting to ponder what the Jays might have received if they held out till after the Lee signing but I for one say "Great Job Melvin!" Now the sticky situation is add one more worth while arm without handcuffing the team up the middle. The only one thrown out there that I am interested in is the Braves talk but man I do like Cain and no I personally don't like the idea of adding Pavano for more than 2 years.