Brewers acquire Shaun Marcum for Brett Lawrie 1 for 1; 3/24/12 -- Jayson Stark article

[HiAndTight]

And he's still not back to pre-TJ status, so he's not a good example of TJ actually helping him.

How is Liriano not back to pre-TJ status? Because he didn't match the 2.16 ERA he logged in his 2nd season when he pitched only121 innings?

 

He still put up a 3.62 ERA (even with an unlucky .340 on BABIP) during a full season rather than 2/3rds of one.

 

Carpenter, Hudson, Liriano, Rafael Soriano, Billy Wagner......... Just a few guys off the top of my head that have had TJ surgery and have come back just as good or better. It's a pretty common surgery now and with Marcum pitching as well as he did last season, it's pretty evident he is recovered and it should not be a major concern.

 

Because the context of the discussion was his fastball and he was throwing 94-95 before the surgery.

 

The argument's being made that he's added a tick. He has not. That's all.

[TheCrew]

94.7 pre TJ (fairly small sample size)

93.7 post TJ (full season)

 

I think your splitting hairs on that one, especially if davemakovec is correct in saying that he was hitting 97 this season.

[HiAndTight]

94.7 pre TJ (fairly small sample size)

93.7 post TJ (full season)

 

I think your splitting hairs on that one, especially if davemakovec is correct in saying that he was hitting 97 this season.

94.8

94.7

90.9

91.7

93.7-two years after TJ

 

He's lost over a MPH, so if you want to argue that he hasn't lost much velocity, fine, dismiss 1 MPH as it's not that significant, but he's certainly not gaining velocity.

[dpapo]

Per Ken Rosenthal on his twitter page,

 

"Sources: #Brewers have had preliminary talks with Marcum about contract extension."

[monty57]

I'd guess the Brewers are shooting for a 3-4 year deal with team option. That would add cost certainty through the final two arby years and buy out a couple of FA years. I don't want them to go beyond that, as four years would get him through age 32. Option...fine, guaranteed 5th year... no thanks.

[Mass Haas]

Audio interview with Shaun Marcum on Toronto sports radio Wed. AM.

 

He was at the Broncos - Chiefs game when notified of the deal. He'll be in Milwaukee on his birthday next week, along with his family.

 

Interview a lovefest between Marcum and the city via the radio hosts...

 

Also --

 

Ron Roenicke interview via WSSP as part of their Hot Stove Weekly show Tuesday 12/6

 

 

Toronto's GM discusses Brett Lawrie in detail in this additional audio interview.

Adding to the audio available from this thread -- Brett Lawrie talks to Toronto Sports Radio

 

(Yes, he discusses the MillerParkDrunk photos, improperly credited to Deadspin; also dances around the Arizona Fall League decline...)

[chadomac]

Regarding the Lawrie radio interview... it's funny that he claims those Miller Park Drunk photos are from Halloween a "long time ago", but there is a February 2010 timestamp right on the photo itself. Granted, someone COULD have added that timestamp with photoshop after the fact... but why would they?

[Thurston Fluff]

The more things I read the more it appears the Jays simply wanted Lawrey. If that is the case maybe they were willing to pay more for him than his value was in the overall market.

[ramssuperbowl99]

It appears the Brewers have already started negotiating with Marcum

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/brewers-have-had-extension-talks-with-marcum.html

If a 2 year commitment can be extended, that means the Brewers have a preliminary 1-2 for up to 4 years. Alot to like there.

[theavrock]

It appears the Brewers have already started negotiating with Marcum

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/brewers-have-had-extension-talks-with-marcum.html

If a 2 year commitment can be extended, that means the Brewers have a preliminary 1-2 for up to 4 years. Alot to like there.

Very interesting reading some of the comments from that article by what appear to be Blue Jays fans.

Comments in addition to those about his pitching. Talks are about how good of a fielder the guy is and apparently he was a SS in college so he can hit a bit.

[molitor fan]

I am convinced that Blue jays fans regard Marcum favorably compared to how Brewer fans regard Gallardo.

 

That lawrie alone snagged him shocks me....

[homer]

Marcum is supposedly a really good hitter. The Brewers could have one of the better hitting staffs in recent memory if that holds true.

[Oldcity]

Again, I like Marcum quite a bit, I always have, but physically he's a #4 or #3 type pitcher who pitchers like a #2 because of his smarts...

I don't meant to be a jerk, and I don't mean to single you out because I see this type of comment all the time, but they really drives me crazy. Why does it matter how he gets results if he actually, you know, gets results!

If a guy threw underhand and was a 3 WAR pitcher, I'd be glad to have him.

 

[chadomac]

Again, I like Marcum quite a bit, I always have, but physically he's a #4 or #3 type pitcher who pitchers like a #2 because of his smarts...

I don't meant to be a jerk, and I don't mean to single you out because I see this type of comment all the time, but they really drives me crazy. Why does it matter how he gets results if he actually, you know, gets results!

If a guy threw underhand and was a 3 WAR pitcher, I'd be glad to have him.

 

I agree. If he pitches like a #2, he's a #2. Not that it matters all that much what we classify him as.

[joepepsi]

Because if he's really "a #4 or #3 type pitcher who pitchers like a #2 because of his smarts... ", there's always the lingering fear he's on thin ice and will become a back end starter at a moment's notice. Not saying I agree with that, it's just harder to project a guy who gets the most out of his perceived limited skills.

 

You can be reasonably confident CC will perform at the same high level year in and year out.

[Invader3K]

Have there been any other halfway decent starting pitchers dealt this winter so far? None that I can really think of. The Brewers desperately needed a starting pitcher and got one for only one prospect. Granted, they gave up their top rated prospect, but you have to give to get in these deals. They also avoided way overpaying in a trade, or signing a mediocre free agent starter. At least they now have some certainty at the top of the rotation going into next season. I think there's less and less to criticize Melvin on about this trade as time passes.

[milwaukeesportsfan]

I've read most of this thread, and I agree with those that say you have to give to get. The Brewers farm system has had a great run producing lots of offensively gifted players. Where has that gotten us? One appearance in the playoffs, and the only reason we made the playoffs that year was because we flipped our #1 hitting prospect for pitching help. Sound familiar? And it's not like any of us are saying, "Man, I wish we had Matt LaPorta and his .221 average in right instead of Corey Hart."

[monty57]

Maybe this is a bit off topic, but a big thing I like about the current makeup of the Brewers is that they have most of their MLB team locked up at reasonable rates for quite a while. By adding Marcum and potentially extending him out a couple of seasons, we will have another spot filled with a talented player for the next 3-4 seasons. If we can find one more SP this offseason and extend Weeks, the only other hole we should need to fill for the next few years will be Prince Fielder, who may be replaced in-house with Gamel.

[thebruce44]

Because if he's really "a #4 or #3 type pitcher who pitchers like a #2 because of his smarts... ", there's always the lingering fear he's on thin ice and will become a back end starter at a moment's notice. Not saying I agree with that, it's just harder to project a guy who gets the most out of his perceived limited skills.

 

You can be reasonably confident CC will perform at the same high level year in and year out.

 

 

I think its quite the opposite actually. A pitcher is much more likely to lose their physical ability than to lose their smarts. Blowing out an elbow is a lot more common than sudden amnesia.

[CheezWizHed]

A control pitcher that throws 90 vs. a "thrower" that throws 95. If both age and lose 2 MPH off the fastball, which one has more leeway to still pitch well? I would tend to think the harder thrower is more likely to get better results. For every Maddux, there is Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan; both can be done, but its just less room for error with the softer throwing pitchers.

 

But I would also say that Marcum at 29 is several years away from worrying about losing much via age. We should easily get 3-4 years before worrying about that.

[valpocrewsader]

Marcum is supposedly a really good hitter.

Just curious what this is based on? He only has 13 career plate appearances, so you couldn't draw any conclusions either way, but even if you relied on that small sample he has a .250 OBP and .200 SLG in those limited opportunities. In the interview he did with Toronto radio, his tone was very apprehensive about batting regularly and he described his career at bats in an almost fearful-sounding way. "You couldn't get me out of the box soon enough ... I don't know how hitters do it." (paraphrase)

 

 

[sbrylski]

Marcum is supposedly a really good hitter.

Just curious what this is based on? He only has 13 career plate appearances, so you couldn't draw any conclusions either way, but even if you relied on that small sample he has a .250 OBP and .200 SLG in those limited opportunities. In the interview he did with Toronto radio, his tone was very apprehensive about batting regularly and he described his career at bats in an almost fearful-sounding way. "You couldn't get me out of the box soon enough ... I don't know how hitters do it." (paraphrase)

Probably his college numbers...

 

Sophomore - .354 / .419 / .511 / .930 (223 AB)

Junior - .280 / .332 / .427 / .759 (246 AB)

 

That was back in '02-'03.

 

I'm guessing he'll be above average for a pitcher, but that's about it.

[MJLiverock]

I just want to say you know you are on a message board that likes stats and has people so interested in the team that a recently acquired pitcher's college batting line including OPS makes it's way into the conversation. Bravo for digging that up.

[HiAndTight]

Because if he's really "a #4 or #3 type pitcher who pitchers like a #2 because of his smarts... ", there's always the lingering fear he's on thin ice and will become a back end starter at a moment's notice. Not saying I agree with that, it's just harder to project a guy who gets the most out of his perceived limited skills.

 

You can be reasonably confident CC will perform at the same high level year in and year out.

GREAT post and echo's my points very well. I'd prefer to start with a guy who has the same numbers but a little more margin of error, especially if we're giving away a guy I value as highly as I do Lawrie.

[MJLiverock]

Or a guy who relies on location and speed changes can last for years without a big fastball a la Hoffman, Moyer, Maddox types vs a guy who just tries to blow it by batters and relies on th not catching up to his mistakes. That power arm that loses a couple mph suddenly becomes very hittable with bad location or straight as a string fastballs in the low 90's.