Trading for Burnett and Joba (salary dump type of move)

[Hate those Rodents]

Just wondering if this would interest anybody. I saw someone mention this on the MLBTR board. If the Yanks sign Lee, they almost have to dump Burnett. Joba would be sort of a sweetener in a deal. Would you take Burnett and Joba for say Todd Coffey and Carlos Villanueva? I believe Burnett is "only" owed around 45 million. I am not sure we can do much better, and this way we can hang onto all of our assets and use potentially use them to upgrade elsewhere. Is this a buy low move that you'd be interested in?

[nate82]

Just wondering if this would interest anybody. I saw someone mention this on the MLBTR board. If the Yanks sign Lee, they almost have to dump Burnett. Joba would be sort of a sweetener in a deal. Would you take Burnett and Joba for say Todd Coffey and Carlos Villanueva? I believe Burnett is "only" owed around 45 million. I am not sure we can do much better, and this way we can hang onto all of our assets and use potentially use them to upgrade elsewhere. Is this a buy low move that you'd be interested in?

I don't think the Yankees would accept that deal and I think the Yankees would wait on to see if Pettite retires before they make a trade. Also Burnett has a limited no trade clause in his contract and I am going to assume Milwaukee is on that list that he can block. As for Joba the Brewers already have the next Joba in Jeffress.

[paul253]

As for Joba the Brewers already have the next Joba in Jeffress.

 

 

Which would make Jeffress a lot more expendable to trade before his value drops. I'd be ok with Burnett, but I wouldn't want Milwaukee to stop there. And I'd like the Yankees to pay at least some of Burnett's remaining salary.

[TooLiveBrew]

Would you take Burnett and Joba for say Todd Coffey and Carlos Villanueva?

 

There is absolutely no reason for the Yankees to be interested in this. Or, in the words of Principessa21, "Absolutely not"

 

Burnett's contract is a 100% horrible idea for the Brewers.

 

 

As for Joba the Brewers already have the next Joba in Jeffress.

 

This comparison is annoying to me. I've seen it before on BF.net -- do you have anything specific that it's based on, or is it just as simple as, "well, they're both guys that throw hard & their teams think they might be better off as RPs"? Honestly there's no good comparison btw. Chamberlain & Jeffress as best I can see, unless you just oversimplify & equate them based on velocity & theoretical RP role.

[nate82]

This comparison is annoying to me. I've seen it before on BF.net -- do you have anything specific that it's based on, or is it just as simple as, "well, they're both guys that throw hard & their teams think they might be better off as RPs"? Honestly there's no good comparison btw. Chamberlain & Jeffress as best I can see, unless you just oversimplify & equate them based on velocity & theoretical RP role.

No it is based on seeing both. They both rely on a hard fastball which they would not be able to throw as hard when they are a starter thus they are better as RP. This is not a knock against either of the players. The Yankees thought Joba was a starter and when his velocity had to come down and he had to develop a third pitch which he never really developed fully he became a bullpen guy. I see the same thing happening with Jeffress and until Jeffress develops a third pitch the Joba comparison is appropriate. Not a knock against each player just how I see them being. Rivera started out as a starter and was converted to the bullpen and look at what he has done with his career. Though at one time Joba had a very high ceiling as a starter like Jeffress. These two are very comparable who knows maybe Jeffress will pan out as a starter where Joba failed. But if Jeffress ceiling is Joba that is still a great prospect and Jeffress will be very valuable to the Brewers.

[TooLiveBrew]

No it is based on seeing both. They both rely on a hard fastball which they would not be able to throw as hard when they are a starter thus they are better as RP.

 

And what else is it based on? Yes, both guys have huge fastballs... what about their mechanics, secondary pitches, etc.? This imo is a comparison that is 100% due to Jeffress throwing innings as a RP (due to his own personal wishes this season), and nothing tangibly more.

 

 

The Yankees thought Joba was a starter and when his velocity had to come

down and he had to develop a third pitch which he never really

developed fully he became a bullpen guy.

 

The Yankees didn't like his mechanics; they were worried that he'd get hurt. They changed his mechanics & then Joba wasn't able to throw as hard. His velocity "had to come down" because the Yankees thought he'd be at risk of hurting himself if he kept his old mechanics. It wasn't just a random drop in velocity. Jeffress's mechanics haven't had to have been changed as best I can tell. Imo it's just a sloppy comparison.

[nate82]

And what else is it based on? Yes, both guys have huge fastballs... what about their mechanics, secondary pitches, etc.? This imo is a comparison that is 100% due to Jeffress throwing innings as a RP (due to his own personal wishes this season), and nothing tangibly more.

If you would have read on further I discussed that. I don't see Jeffress developing a second or a third pitch. The same problem that Joba had in developing a good second or third pitch. Normally guys who can not develop a decent third pitch are either a back of the end rotation guy or a bullpen guy. Jeffress is in the same boat as Joba was in when he came up with the Yankees. The change in velocity comes from his change from the bullpen to the starting rotation you just can not throw as hard as you want when you are expected to go multiple innings. The velocity is going to go down when going from the bullpen to being a starter.

 

I wish you wouldn't put words into my mouth that I didn't even say. It is purely based on Jeffress that I saw a few years ago and what I saw this year and the same with Joba it has absolutely nothing to do with Jeffress or Joba being in the bullpen. The bullpen just maybe the best spot for them depending on factors like the player developing a 2nd and a 3rd pitch.

[PrinceFielderx1]

I heard that Jeffress was nearly unhittable at times because he was locating his fastball, Curvaball and Changeup in the AFL. By my count, that is 3 different pitches right there that he is learning to throw and having success with.

[endaround]

Would you take Burnett and Joba for say Todd Coffey and Carlos Villanueva?

 

There is absolutely no reason for the Yankees to be interested in this. Or, in the words of Principessa21, "Absolutely not"

 

Burnett's contract is a 100% horrible idea for the Brewers.

 

 

As for Joba the Brewers already have the next Joba in Jeffress.

 

This comparison is annoying to me. I've seen it before on BF.net -- do you have anything specific that it's based on, or is it just as simple as, "well, they're both guys that throw hard & their teams think they might be better off as RPs"? Honestly there's no good comparison btw. Chamberlain & Jeffress as best I can see, unless you just oversimplify & equate them based on velocity & theoretical RP role.

I think the Yankees would jump at it to dump Burnett. $16.5m/ year for a 1.3 WAR pitcher? Woohoo. its the return of Soup! Obviously Burnett has more talent than Suppan and so has a chance to rebound but his velocity was down last year as was his K/9. At $16.5m over 3 years Burnett makes some sense for the Brewers, at $16.5m a year for 3 years he doesn't.

[Invader3K]

I don't think the Brewers should be interested in either one, especially Burnett with his salary. He'll be 34 in January and wasn't very good last year. 5.26 ERA and 1.51 WHIP.

[dadofandrew]

The Yankees have to pick up $10M a year of AJ's salary to even think about it, as they do not have a bad contract to swap.

[TooLiveBrew]

I wish you wouldn't put words into my mouth that I didn't even say. It is purely based on Jeffress that I saw a few years ago and what I saw this year and the same with Joba it has absolutely nothing to do with Jeffress or Joba being in the bullpen.

 

Sorry for putting words in your mouth; I definitely made an assumption. I've just seen the Jeffress-Chamberlain comp. around BF recently & I figure the bullpen/SP waffling is where it came from. Thanks for setting me straight when it comes to your stance.

 

I agree with PrinceFielderx1, though. Jeffress's curveball got a lot of praise this season, and I thought it looked decent in his MLB time. I still don't think Joba is a good comparison for Jeffress, but I can agree to disagree.

[Hate those Rodents]

Back on topic a bit more though, I guess my question is if you'd trade for Burnett if he's more or less a salary dump. I realize it'd maybe be better to get Greinke or Floyd or Garza via a trade, but what if we just aren't able to obtain one of those types via a trade? Is this a move you'd gamble on, would you overpay a Pavano and say a De La Rosa? Do we just punt for this year? Where would obtaining Burnett in a salary dump (if its possible) rate in your hierarchy of ideas to improve our 2011 starting pitching?

[logan82]

I wasn't to impressed with Jeffress control. I didn't watch him to closely but that is what stuck out to me.

[crewcrazy]

I do think the Joba comparison has something to it, and not just because Jeffress started throwing out of the bullpen this year. There have been plenty of scouts suggesting for awhile that Jeffress would end up in the bullpen (although not necessarily a bad thing -- the words "dominant closer" come up a lot). The fastball is the strength for both, they're both seen as "adrenaline guys" who are better when they don't have to dial it back, and both of their breaking pitches can be really good if they have their command working. Obviously the 88-MPH change Jeffress busted out in the AFL gives us a little more hope that he can stick in the rotation, but I don't think it's a horrible comparison at this point.

 

On the topic of Burnett, I had the same thought awhile ago when the Yankees were trying to figure out ways to avoid pitching him in the playoffs. Even though he pretty much stunk across the board this year, I think he could be a guy who would benefit from a move back to the NL, but the contract is just too much to overlook. He'd be interesting if the Yankees were to pick up a significant part of the tab, but if the Yankees pay enough to get the Brewers to listen, then they'd likely want more in return than the Brewers would/should give up. I just don't see it as a match.

[GAME05]

As for Joba the Brewers already have the next Joba in Jeffress.

I certainly wouldn't mind having two Jeffress-es.

 

 

was AJ's year an aberration or a downward trend? no sense in essentially paying $15M/year for Joba Chamberlain. Villy and Coffey would be pretty easy to part with.

[twobrewers]

I think Burnett and Joba both might be good "buy low" candidates.

 

Burnett could see a sizable rebound as he regresses to the mean. Add in a switch to the NL Central and he could very well be a 4.00 ERA pitcher. That said, the Yankees need to pick up a lot of his contract.

[dlk9s]

That said, the Yankees need to pick up a lot of his contract.

This.

 

He's due $16.5 million each year through 2013. The Yankees would have to eat at least $6.5 per year before I even give it any consideration. And by "at least," I mean I probably wouldn't do it for that much. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[thebruce44]

As for Joba the Brewers already have the next Joba in Jeffress.

 

 

Which would make Jeffress a lot more expendable to trade before his value drops. I'd be ok with Burnett, but I wouldn't want Milwaukee to stop there. And I'd like the Yankees to pay at least some of Burnett's remaining salary.

 

 

Before Jeffress' value drops? He is coming off two suspensions that seriously cut into his prospect value. A full season at AAA should see him shoot up the prospect lists. To trade him now would be selling nearly as low as possible.

[Hate those Rodents]

So....I believe the dominoes for a Burnett salary dump are setting in. Cliff Lee was offered six years and 140 million and now Petitte says he's leaning toward returning based upon the following link.

http://twitter.com/KenDav.../status/7173225112932352

 

Burnett I believe will be shipped out after these two guys join the 2011 Yanks...

[Principessa21]

So....I believe the dominoes for a Burnett salary dump are setting in. Cliff Lee was offered six years and 140 million and now Petitte says he's leaning toward returning based upon the following link.

http://twitter.com/KenDav.../status/7173225112932352

 

Burnett I believe will be shipped out after these two guys join the 2011 Yanks...

I don't know why you keep saying this. The Yankees do operate under a budget, but they can still afford Burnett next year even with overpaying for Lee, Pettitte, Rivera and Jeter. And who would replace him as fifth starter? Ivan Nova? Since there is a good chance he'll be better than his 2010 numbers, there is no immediate need to get rid of him. And I'm not opposed to trading Burnett with taking on some of his salary (which is one of the reason's I don't want to pay Jeter 4yrs/80mil) but it would have to be for the right pieces, not two average relievers.

[Hate those Rodents]

I suppose we'll wait and see. I think hatred for the Yankees is justified, but the fact they WILL put that much money into their rotation (CC, CL, AP, and AJB) I believe is unjustified. I don't think they'll enter the season with all of those guys. I think they'll look to dump AJB. Can they afford all four? Sure, maybe, probably. Are they going to want to get rid of AJ's salary after adding AP and CL? You better believe it (in my opinion).

[Principessa21]

I've been following the Yankees since I've known about baseball (they're my hometown team) and I have seen NOTHING that would indicate that Burnett is going to be traded because of budget constraints. But whatever. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Hate those Rodents]

I've been following the Yankees since I've known about baseball (they're my hometown team) and I have seen NOTHING that would indicate that Burnett is going to be traded because of budget constraints. But whatever. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

I don't think it'd be a trade due to constraints. I just don't think they are going to "want" to pay Burnett after paying their top three starters. I also don't think you'd hear anything until Petitte and Lee are officially added. I think they'll try and dump him. We'll just agree to disagree. No worries...

 

[Principessa21]

Today Buster Olney wrote that Cashman traveled to Maryland to see Burnett, supposedly to tell him that the Yankees still believe in him. Or he gave him another black eye. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif