College Basketball 2010-2011

[jjkoestler]

Taking my homerism out of it, I don't see how Jordan Taylor isn't the best PG in the country.

 

I'm not trying to necessarily debate this by saying the following... Kemba Walker is pretty amazing, too.

 

 

Walker and Fredette really aren't true PGs. They are score first guys. Taylor gets the entire team involved, scores when necessary, and has a more complete game as a PG.

[danzig6767]

Anything

less than the Sweet 16 would be a major disappointment with this team

peaking at the right time. Elite 8 or Final 4 is possible with the right

bracket.

I want to believe this so bad. Every

year I believe that UW will make it further than everyone else seems to

think. If the consensus is knocked out in the second round, I think

they'll get to the Sweet 16. If people pick them to the Sweet 16, I

think they're making the Elite 8. I'm just so sick of them

overachieving in the regular season and then underachieving in the

postseason, that I'm going to try very hard to temper my expectations

this year. It will probably be impossible cause I honestly believe this

team might be better than their '07 team that won 30 some odd games.

Then again they had Jason 'J-Cheezy' Chappel so that gives that team the

slight edge.

 

All kidding aside, matchups are obviously the key. Has Wisconsin been

unlucky in their matchups all these years they've lost to lower-seeded

teams? Or do they just not perform as well in the tourney? Probably

more of the former. I just know that whatever 13/14/15 seeded team they

draw, I'll be paranoid of a Cornell-like 3 point barrage.

I may be in the minority with my thinking here, but i don't think matchups will be the biggest key in how far Wisconsin advances in the NCAA Tournament this year.

 

We know the Badgers will defend and take care of the ball. They also do have a post option in Leuer. That said, this Wisconsin team is so heavily reliant on the jump shot for a high percentage of their points. They shoot a ton of threes. Granted, they have three very good shooters in Taylor, Nakivil, and Leuer in the starting lineup along with a few other guys who can stick jumpers/threes. It makes them tough defend.

 

The flip side to that though is i question if they can beat a quality team in the NCAA Tournament if they are cold from the perimeter. Obviously being cold from the perimeter would hurt any team, but i think it will hurt UW more than most other teams. Their offense isn't diverse enough to score say 60 plus points when their jumpers are off. When they are shooting well from the perimeter though, the Badgers can pretty much beat anyone given how well they are in other facets of the game, especially at the line. If they have a lead late, their fabulous free throw shooting is a huge factor.

 

So my guess is that in whatever round they end up losing in, the matchup in retrospect won't be viewed as a major factor why. Instead, we'll look at the boxscore and see that the Badgers shot something like 3-17 or 4-20 from three point land and simply were unable to find other ways to muster up a suitable amount of offense to win.

[jjfanec]

Taking my homerism out of it, I don't see how Jordan Taylor isn't the best PG in the country.

 

I'm not trying to necessarily debate this by saying the following... Kemba Walker is pretty amazing, too.

Walker and Fredette really aren't true PGs. They are score first guys. Taylor gets the entire team involved, scores when necessary, and has a more complete game as a PG.

Here is a great article on Taylor being the best pure point guard in college basketball. Just a couple quotes from it.

"By my count, Jordan Taylor isn't just in the discussion for the best point guard in the country. Nope. He IS[/i]

the best floor general in the sport, hands down. Nobody exemplifies the

position better. Nobody takes better care of the ball. Point guards

aren't supposed to take 25 shots every night and pass only when double

teams come their way. It's easy to go ahead and label players like

Jimmer Fredette and Kemba Walker as point guards because of their size,

but that distinction is very much based on where these guys fit as NBA

players, and not necessarily how they play in the college game. To

clarify this, Jimmer gets my vote as the best shooting guard in the

country. Hopefully that doesn't come as a shock to anyone."

 

Taylors assist to turnover ratio is 4.12 which is 1.3 better than any other guard and he has had zero games with more than 4 turnovers. He is great from the line and from three. I still dont think he will go pro because he does not seem to have much love from mock draft sites. If he can grow in driving and scoring I think he can jump a lot. He is also shorter so that hurts him.

[Roscoe Chill]

I have to ask NDOGG, if he's around, if he still thinks Taylor isn't

someone who might head for the NBA after this season/project well for

the NBA. Not gloating or anything like that, just honestly wondering.

 

Unless he's grown to about 6'3" or 6'4", nothing has really changed about his pro prospects. I think he'll play in the NBA, he's just not such a slam dunk that he leaves early, and that's got nothing to do with how good he is at Wisconsin.

[homer]

I may be in the minority with my thinking here, but i don't think matchups will be the biggest key in how far Wisconsin advances in the NCAA Tournament this year.

 

We know the Badgers will defend and take care of the ball.

First off, it's always about matchups. Secondly, the Badgers don't really defend all that well.

 

They will probably lose in the tourney while having an average offensive performance and a terrible defensive performance yet everyone will harp on the O. For some reason the team's very average defense is being ignored this year. It's not a bad defense but compared to what we're used to at UW it is just not very good.

[jjfanec]

I may be in the minority with my thinking here, but i don't think matchups will be the biggest key in how far Wisconsin advances in the NCAA Tournament this year.

 

We know the Badgers will defend and take care of the ball.

First off, it's always about matchups. Secondly, the Badgers don't really defend all that well.

 

They will probably lose in the tourney while having an average offensive performance and a terrible defensive performance yet everyone will harp on the O. For some reason the team's very average defense is being ignored this year. It's not a bad defense but compared to what we're used to at UW it is just not very good.

It is not being ignored by Ryan. Ryan says Badgers defense lacking. That was from 2 or 3 days ago.

[brwrsfan]

Their defense has left much to be desired the last few games. Giving up very high shooting percentages, making some silly fouls and just really not defending all the great in general. They have had a problem with the high pick and roll for years. Any team that can do this effectively is going to be a huge problem for WI in the tournament.

[jhart05]

If you're not doing anything this weekend, come on down to the Mecca.
Very nice priced tickets for DI tournament basketball.

Friday Night (tonight):

5:00pm Cleveland State vs Wright State
7:30pm Valparasio vs Detroit

Cleveland State has a PG that is going to be drafted. Norris Cole. Great player. I guess Marquette could have used a good PG this year. He would have put them in the Top 25, no doubt. A tough, physical, team.

Wright State has a top level tallent in Vaughn Duggins.

Detroit has a freshman, Ray McCallum, who was recruited by UCLA and Arizona, but chose to stay home and play for his Dad. They are also a tough, physical team, but their coach sucks. They should be better than they are. I still would rather not face them Saturday night as they always play well here.

Valpo is solid all around, but not playing very well right now. They had the 1 seed two weeks ago, but then proceeded to loose 3 of their final 4 regular season league games to drop to the 4 seed.


Saturday Night:

5:00pm Butler vs (Cleveland State or Wright State)
7:30pm Milwaukee vs (Valparasio or Detroit) ESPNU

Tuesday Night: (hopefully)

8:00pm Milwaukee vs Butler ESPN

[pitchleague]

Woo hoo! The Luther College Norse defeat Condordia University 68-61 and move on to the 2nd round of the NCAA Division III Tournament!!!!!

 

Only to get annihilated by UW-Stevens Point on Saturday. Well, that's likely, at least.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, so jealous of all you UW folks and UW-M folks and Marquette folks that get to use this thread to strike a pose and strut your stuff. It's about time that I got to celebrate ANYTHING about my alma mater.

[jhart05]

Hey anything can happen this time of year. Go Luther College Norse!!!

[jhart05]

Games are set.

 

Saturday Night:

 

5:00pm 2) Butler vs 3) Cleveland State

7:30pm 1) Milwaukee vs 4) Valparasio ESPNU

 

That Butler/Cleveland State game should be a good one to watch, if the refs let the kids play. But if we have refs that call every little foul, Cleveland State doesn't have a chance, they don't have much of a bench. Can Norris Cole continue to carry that Cleveland State team on his back?

 

 

Tuesday Night: (hopefully)

 

8:00pm Milwaukee vs Butler ESPN

[danzig6767]

I may be in the minority with my thinking here, but i don't think matchups will be the biggest key in how far Wisconsin advances in the NCAA Tournament this year.

 

We know the Badgers will defend and take care of the ball.

First off, it's always about matchups. Secondly, the Badgers don't really defend all that well.

 

They will probably lose in the tourney while having an average offensive performance and a terrible defensive performance yet everyone will harp on the O. For some reason the team's very average defense is being ignored this year. It's not a bad defense but compared to what we're used to at UW it is just not very good.

No it's not always about the matchups. I'm not saying that matchups are irrelevant, just that i think many fans put that overly high on their list of importance when it comes to winning or losing in the NCAA Tournament.

 

Look at quite a few of the teams that the Badgers ended up losing to over the years in the tournament since Bo took over. It's not like nearly each year the Badgers have been eliminated by really high seeds with vastly superior talent.

 

It's also true that their defense has failed them in some of those NCAA Tournament losses, but in my opinion the UW offense overall in big dance games have had to many struggles, even in wins. Part of that i think just comes from that the Badgers get almost zero points at all from easy baskets transition offense. It's one thing to consistently out-execute in half court offense vs the lower/middle tier Big Ten teams in conference play for tons of wins, and then generally split with the upper tier conference teams.

 

Come big dance time though, there really are no easy wins unless you're a one seed playing a 16 seed. Badgers can't play at home. Then i factor in how perimeter heavy the offense is based on, it's just hard to win 3-4 straight tournament games to reach the Elite 8/Final Four when if the jumpers aren't falling in a given game, there really aren't many other avenues to score a suitable enough points to pull out a win. They aren't going to turn some turnovers into easy basket transition points as most other teams can do. They can score some points in the paint via Taylor and Leuer, but not take over a game in there. Nobody on the guard/wing positions besides Taylor can create shots off dribble penetration if their jumper is off that day.

 

That all said, i'm a little more optimistic that this year's Badger team can at worst make it to the Sweet 16. Both Taylor and Leuer are big time players and consistently good. Nakivil has always had a nice jump shot for a PF, but he's been more consistent with it this year. He's a deadly three point shooter on most nights. So even though i get worried about Badger teams that are so perimeter based offensively, this year's team i'm less worried about that because Taylor, Leuer, and Nakivil are all such really good shooters. Less inconsistent shooters than some previous Ryan coached teams. Plus, their insanely good free throw shooting can't be overlooked. Missed free throws are lost points that often come back to haunt losers in the tournament, especially the front end of a bonus. Then at the end of games if UW has a lead, there really is nobody on the court to foul given all shoot above 80 percent. On the flip side, we'll see numerous other teams get eliminated who had a lead inside the last minute, but missed free throws.

[homer]

No it's not always about the matchups. I'm not saying that matchups are irrelevant, just that i think many fans put that overly high on their list of importance when it comes to winning or losing in the NCAA Tournament.

 

Look at quite a few of the teams that the Badgers ended up losing to over the years in the tournament since Bo took over. It's not like nearly each year the Badgers have been eliminated by really high seeds with vastly superior talent.

Right, because they didn't match up well or ran into a hot team. You can't honestly tell me that Butler was better than UW last year. And good teams lose to lower seeded teams all the time. There are plenty of Hall of Fame coaches that were upset in the tourney a number of times. Many of them heard the same things that they say about Bo; "He can't win int he tourney." or "They always choke in the tourney." Lute Olson, Jim Boeheim, Jim Calhoun all coached for over a decade or more before winning it all.

[crewcrazy]

Right now, Lunardi has the Badgers as a 3 in Pittsburgh's (Southeast) bracket, with Texas as a 2. Considering how much the Longhorns have been scuffling and the fact that BYU is a shaky 2 right now, it's possible the Badgers could sneak into that discussion with another win over OSU or a strong showing in the Big Ten tourney.

 

As of now, Lunardi projects Long Island as the Badgers' opponent, with the winner of West Virginia/Gonzaga waiting in Round 2. Not crazy about the idea of playing a Big East team in Round 2.

[jjkoestler]

Will WI have the 2 seed in the Big Ten Tourney with a win over OSU?

[trwi7]

Right, because they didn't match up well or ran into a hot team.

They must get screwed by the commitee then because they don't match up well or run into a hot team every year.

 

The only single digit seeds Ryan has beaten since he became head coach have been St. John's, a 9 seed in his first year and Florida State, a 5 seed a couple years ago.

 

Teams Ryan has beaten in the tournament: 9 seed St. John's, 12 seed Weber State, 13 seed Tulsa, 11 seed Richmond, 11 seed Northern Iowa, 14 seed Bucknell, 10 seed North Carolina State, 15 seed Texas A&M Corpus Christi, 14 seed Cal State Fullerton, 11 seed Kansas State, 5 seed Florida State and 13 seed Wofford. Average seed of those teams is 11.5. Average margin of victory is 8.7.

 

Teams Ryan has lost to in the tournament: 1 seed Maryland, 1 seed Kentucky, 3 seed Pittsburgh, 1 seed North Carolina, 8 seed Arizona, 7 seed UNLV, 10 seed Davidson, 4 seed Xavier and 12 seed Cornell. Average seed of those teams is 5.2. Average margin of defeat is 13.

 

As far as those teams being hot. Look at how far they advanced after they beat Wisconsin. Maryland went on to win the Championship, Kentucky lost in the next round to Marquette, Pittsburgh lost in the next round to Oklahoma State, North Carolina went on to win the Championship, Arizona lost to Villanova in the next round, UNLV lost to Oregon in the next round, Davidson lost to Kansas in the next round, Xavier lost to Pittsburgh in the next round, Cornell lost to Kentucky in the next round.

 

They were clearly going up against great teams in North Carolina and Maryland as they went on to win the championship. It's hard for me to say they don't match up well or ran into a hot team when 7 of the 9 years the team that beat them lost in the next round. It's also hard not to look at how far they've gotten and who they've played when they've gotten to at least the Sweet 16. They got the 12 and 13 seeds to get to the Sweet 16, the 11, 14 and 10 seeds to get the Elite 8 and the 14 and 11 seeds to get to the Sweet 16. Granted, you can only play who wins but the inability of Ryan teams to win in the tournament against better seeds is pretty telling.

[trwi7]

Will WI have the 2 seed in the Big Ten Tourney with a win over OSU?

Yes. The tiebreaker is the record against the top seeded team in the conference. Purdue already lost to Ohio State and a win would make the Badgers 2-0 against Ohio State.

 

 

[homer]

Granted, you can only play who wins but the inability of Ryan teams to win in the tournament against better seeds is pretty telling.

What is telling about it?

[trwi7]

That they can't beat them? And lately they've been losing to lower seeded teams too. They've beaten a higher seeded team in the tournament once in 9 years.

[DHonks]

Just curious...anyone else going to Vegas for the first two rounds? I've gotten two offers of "2 complimentary nights" at hotels. Wasn't sure if there were fellow Brewerfan users going there for March Madness or Spring Break

[crewcrazy]

As far as those teams being hot. Look at how far they advanced after they beat Wisconsin. Maryland went on to win the Championship, Kentucky lost in the next round to Marquette, Pittsburgh lost in the next round to Oklahoma State, North Carolina went on to win the Championship, Arizona lost to Villanova in the next round, UNLV lost to Oregon in the next round, Davidson lost to Kansas in the next round, Xavier lost to Pittsburgh in the next round, Cornell lost to Kentucky in the next round.

Like you said, Maryland went on to win the title. Marquette went to the Final Four after beating Kentucky. Oklahoma State went to the Final Four after beating Pittsburgh. North Carolina won the title. Villanova went on to the Elite Eight after beating Arizona, losing to eventual champion Florida. Oregon went on to the Elite Eight after beating UNLV, losing to eventual champion Florida. Davidson lost to Kansas by two points, who went on to win the title. Pitt was a 1 seed the year they beat Xavier in the Sweet 16, and went on to lose to Villanova by 2 in the Elite Eight. Cornell won 29 games last year, and lost to a Kentucky team stacked with NBA draft picks.

 

It's understandable that these teams weren't able to advance much deeper into the tournament after beating the Badgers.

[trwi7]

I'm just saying, you'd think after nine straight years in the tournament the Badgers would've been able to beat more than one higher seed. I'm not buying the hot teams or bad matchups thing.

[trwi7]

danzig6767 wrote:

No it's not always about the matchups. I'm not saying that matchups are irrelevant, just that i think many fans put that overly high on their list of importance when it comes to winning or losing in the NCAA Tournament.

 

Look at quite a few of the teams that the Badgers ended up losing to over the years in the tournament since Bo took over. It's not like nearly each year the Badgers have been eliminated by really high seeds with vastly superior talent.

 

It's also true that their defense has failed them in some of those NCAA Tournament losses, but in my opinion the UW offense overall in big dance games have had to many struggles, even in wins. Part of that i think just comes from that the Badgers get almost zero points at all from easy baskets transition offense. It's one thing to consistently out-execute in half court offense vs the lower/middle tier Big Ten teams in conference play for tons of wins, and then generally split with the upper tier conference teams.

 

Come big dance time though, there really are no easy wins unless you're a one seed playing a 16 seed. Badgers can't play at home. Then i factor in how perimeter heavy the offense is based on, it's just hard to win 3-4 straight tournament games to reach the Elite 8/Final Four when if the jumpers aren't falling in a given game, there really aren't many other avenues to score a suitable enough points to pull out a win. They aren't going to turn some turnovers into easy basket transition points as most other teams can do. They can score some points in the paint via Taylor and Leuer, but not take over a game in there. Nobody on the guard/wing positions besides Taylor can create shots off dribble penetration if their jumper is off that day.

 

That all said, i'm a little more optimistic that this year's Badger team can at worst make it to the Sweet 16. Both Taylor and Leuer are big time players and consistently good. Nakivil has always had a nice jump shot for a PF, but he's been more consistent with it this year. He's a deadly three point shooter on most nights. So even though i get worried about Badger teams that are so perimeter based offensively, this year's team i'm less worried about that because Taylor, Leuer, and Nakivil are all such really good shooters. Less inconsistent shooters than some previous Ryan coached teams. Plus, their insanely good free throw shooting can't be overlooked. Missed free throws are lost points that often come back to haunt losers in the tournament, especially the front end of a bonus. Then at the end of games if UW has a lead, there really is nobody on the court to foul given all shoot above 80 percent. On the flip side, we'll see numerous other teams get eliminated who had a lead inside the last minute, but missed free throws.

This is a great post. Wish I would've read it in more detail earlier instead of just skimming through.

[homer]

I'm just saying, you'd think after nine straight years in the tournament the Badgers would've been able to beat more than one higher seed. I'm not buying the hot teams or bad matchups thing.

They've lost to Cornell, Davidson, and UNLV three of the last four tournaments. Cornell and Davidson shot the lights out of the gym. Davidson almost beat Kansas who went on to win it all. UNLV shot like 50% from beyond the arc. Stuff happens.

 

Now i'm not saying the Badger played perfectly in every tournament. They have had bad defensive games and bad offensive games. But I really don't think style of play or style of offense has anything to do with lack of tournament success.

[trwi7]

Stuff happens.

Yet it happens against the Badgers every single year. Coincedence? I doubt that.