Brewers may shop Braun? Gammons says he's hearing so...

[paul253]

I think the Brewers need to do something big to fix the organization. If you can get Bucholz and Lester, or even Lester and Casey Kelly, then I think you have to do it. Menace mentioned Lars Anderson, who is someone I thought of all well.

 

Just imagine if we trade Fielder, Braun, and a reliever for Lester, Bucholz and Lars Anderson. Then, you trade Jeffress, Lawrie, Green, and Peralta for Zach Greinke. The rotation would be the best rotation in all of baseball, and that doesn't even include Mark Rogers who could replace Wolf in 2012. Offensively, well, you'll be challenged BUT there is hope. You'd have to extend Weeks. Hart and McGehee can hit. Lucroy and Cain will only get better. You insert Gamel in there somewhere. You'll have Lars Anderson at first. It'd be a young lineup. In the minors, you still have Odorizzi, Heckathorn, Rivas, Rogers and Scarpetta pitching wise. Offensively you have a few guys coming up like the Davis' and Scooter Bennett who have some potential. Plus those two top 15 draft picks you'd have to hit on in next years draft. I realize it's a pipe dream and it will never happen, but I would really love it if it did.

 

Rotation

1) Lester

2) Greinke

3) Gallardo

4) Bucholz

5) Wolf

 

Lineup

C) Lucroy

1B Anderson

2B Weeks

SS Escobar

3B McGehee

LF Hart/Gamel

CF Cain

RF Hart/Gamel

[Invader3K]

Where is Braun honestly rated as an offensive player across both leagues? Would it be worth trading him for a similar rated pitcher? My opinion is yes.

 

Braun is an elite offensive player. Just going off sheer hits alone, he was 6th overall in all of MLB this year (2nd in the NL behind Carlos Gonzalez), and lead the NL in hits in 2009. That stat alone should give some indication of his value.

 

Good luck seeing Mat Gamel fill those shoes anytime soon.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Well, yes, it's interesting. But realistic? No. I also think some people are really over reaching in thinking that Gamel and Lawrie are just going to waltz in and be in any way comparable to Braun/Fielder (defense aside, which is also far from clear cut). Lawrie is still probably a couple years away, from my understanding.

 

The team has many other assets to trade before worrying about Ryan Braun. Throwing Braun out there right now sounds like a desperation move.

No player other than Gallardo IMO is safe from being traded. So to suggest that Braun could be traded is realistic even though it isn't likely to happen. Gamel and Lawrie won't be able to make up for the loss off Braun and Fielders production and I haven't heard anybody say they will. Another route the Brewers could take is the use the available payroll money and sign some offense if they can't count on Gamel or Lawrie in the short term. No way the Brewers trade Braun and Fielder if they don't have legit back-up options. I highly doubt the Brewers are throwing Braun out there to see what they can get, but rather team or teams are asking about him. I don't see anything desperate about that.

[Menace II Sobriety]

Where is Braun honestly rated as an offensive player across both leagues? Would it be worth trading him for a similar rated pitcher? My opinion is yes.

 

Braun is an elite offensive player. Just going off sheer hits alone, he was 6th overall in all of MLB this year (2nd in the NL behind Carlos Gonzalez), and lead the NL in hits in 2009. That stat alone should give some indication of his value.

 

Good luck seeing Mat Gamel fill those shoes anytime soon.

I don't need you to tell me where Braun finished in hits the last two seasons, and I never stated Gamel would fill his shoes. I asked where he is honestly rated on an offensive scale. Based on contract and position I would rate Braun 8-10 and that could be generous. You could have him rated higher that is why I asked. Taking into account all of the money coming off the books and the fact a larger contract wouldn't hinder the team in the near future it could be lower.

 

Again if I could trade Braun for a player of similar value who is a pitcher I would probably do it. Any P in the same ranking would be an elite pitcher. Also it is not like Braun is throwing his money into all of these business ventures across WI and he is creating jobs, investors are paying him to use him name and promote their restaurants for them. It's not like he is going to have these guys open up a chain of Ryan Braun restaurants in Kansas City. I am not saying I think he should be traded but people pick out one word in a post and rip away instead of thinking of the entire thought process.

[molitor fan]

Just imagine if we trade Fielder, Braun, and a reliever for Lester, Bucholz and Lars Anderson

 

Holy smokes....has there ever been a trade like this in the history of baseball? This is not realistic....This goes back to my previous point - which kramnoj completely subverted - trade speculation of the type that Gammons and perhaps Witrado are throwing out there is a disservice to the Brewers as a whole as it effects the teams stabilty, and apparently, the mental stability of a fanbase as well.

[dlk9s]

Phase 1: Trade Braun and Fielder to Red Sox for Lester and Buchholz.

 

Phase 2: Trade Rogers, Jeffress, and Odorizzi to Red Sox for Braun and Fielder.

 

Phase 3: ???

 

Phase 4: Profit!

[paul253]

No it's not realstic, I so much as said so when I suggested it. It'd be a bold move though wouldn't it? And if you completed the deal for Greinke too you'd easily have the best rotation is all over baseball. Gallardo would be your third best starter.

 

there is a disservice to the Brewers as a whole as it effects the teams

stabilty, and apparently, the mental stability of a fanbase as well.

 

I'm not really sure about this. Trade talk is just part of the game. Everybody knows that at some point they may be traded. Fielder definitely knows that and it's pretty much entirely his fault. I'm sure Braun signed his long term deal with the intention of staying in Milwaukee for awhile, but if we can improve the future of the organization by trading him you have to look at that. And he knows that. I'll ignore that little shot about the mental stability of the fan base. I think anyone who thinks trading Prince Fielder for a #3 starter is all we need to do to turn this organization into a consistent winner is just as foolish as anyone who suggests trading Braun and Fielder at the same time to make your rotation the best in baseball is the way to go. Nobody is taking these rumors seriously, but it's the offseason. Have some fun. I doubt Ryan Braun is sitting at home saying....Oh my God! Paul253 suggested that I should be traded! This is going to distract me when I play next season!

[dlk9s]

I do not necessarily want to trade Braun but he has had chronic injuries the last 2 seasons that he happened to talk about constantly without ever mentioning them.

He hasn't had "chronic" injuries. He had the intercostal strain in 2008 that seemed to carry over a bit into 2009, but has been fine for quite some time now. He got hit by a pitch on the elbow this season that seemed to affect him for a while, but we also know that he appeared to recover from that later in the season and looked great. A "chronic" injury is one that keeps cropping up year after year.

[dlk9s]

Phase 1: Trade Braun and Fielder to Red Sox for Lester and Buchholz.

 

Phase 2: Trade Rogers, Jeffress, and Odorizzi to Red Sox for Braun and Fielder.

 

Phase 3: ???

 

Phase 4: Profit!

You can look at one absurd trade proposal and ridicule it, or you could actually make a reply worth reading. We all know that no way no how the team is adding 2 Sox starters and Greinke. But that has nothing to do with the fact that trading Braun could be a good move.

Or you could know how to take a joke.

[JohnBriggs12]

If the Brewers traded Fielder and Braun, they'd look an awful (and I do mean awful) lot like the 2010 Seattle Mariners.

[ELCABALLO45]

If the Brewers traded Fielder and Braun, they'd look an awful (and I do mean awful) lot like the 2010 Seattle Mariners.

The 2010 Mariners don't have one of Weeks or Hart. Offense wise. They probably wouldn't have a guy that would match what Gamel would put up.

[ELCABALLO45]

There is probably a 5% chance we trade Braun.

 

However, just even seeing a rotation of Gallardo-Lester-Grinke. Makes me feel all tingly inside http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[TooLiveBrew]

I do not necessarily want to trade Braun but he has had chronic injuries the last 2 seasons that he happened to talk about constantly without ever mentioning them.

He hasn't had "chronic" injuries. He had the intercostal strain in 2008 that seemed to carry over a bit into 2009, but has been fine for quite some time now. He got hit by a pitch on the elbow this season that seemed to affect him for a while, but we also know that he appeared to recover from that later in the season and looked great. A "chronic" injury is one that keeps cropping up year after year.

Uh oh... has he assumed Brittle Ben's mantle -- Brittle Braun?! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Menace II Sobriety]

I do not necessarily want to trade Braun but he has had chronic injuries the last 2 seasons that he happened to talk about constantly without ever mentioning them.

He hasn't had "chronic" injuries. He had the intercostal strain in 2008 that seemed to carry over a bit into 2009, but has been fine for quite some time now. He got hit by a pitch on the elbow this season that seemed to affect him for a while, but we also know that he appeared to recover from that later in the season and looked great. A "chronic" injury is one that keeps cropping up year after year.

Uh oh... has he assumed Brittle Ben's mantle -- Brittle Braun?! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

You can act like an ass if you want to, but that doesn't change the fact the Braun has had a minor injury that lingered longer than it should have for the last 3 seasons. If this was Weeks with his wrist injuries it would be a major concern even though it was different wrists. I am just trying to point out issues that others are neglecting. It is a fact that he has had a major part of each the last 3 seasons impacted by an injury. They are not all his fault, but Hardy broke an ankle, Weeks tore 2 tendon sheeths, that weren't his fault.

[TooLiveBrew]

I wasn't acting like an ass, just trying to kid around.

[Gobias Industries]

Would have to get Crawford to replace Braun though, otherwise we're just fixing one hole to create another.

 

You wouldn't have to if you're comfortable with Gamel's bat.

I'm very comfortable with Mat's bat. I see him as a young JD Drew (nice combo of power AND patience, which will drive the avg fan mad). It's his glove that I don't trust.

[RockCoCougars]

Paul Molitor was 'injury prone' too. After all, he was 'just a DH' when he was allowed to walk by Bando. The difference between Molitor and Braun was that Molitor missed tons of games, Braun has averaged about 30 homers 100-some rbi and a .310+ batting average in the past two 'injury riddled' seasons. Based on his contract and his production, Braun has to be one of the top 5 most valuable players in baseball when it comes to trade value (much more than Gallardo in my opinion as well). Harp on his defense all you want- personally I think that he should have been kept at third base. When he moved to the outfield, many said defense in left field doesn't matter. Where are those people now? If you are that concerned about his defense, put him at first base, he is an elite hitter on a Hall of Fame pace. You simply don't trade him when you are a market like Milwaukee and have him locked in for 5 more seasons (most likely the prime of his career).

[GAME05]

great prospect aside, most have their careers progress like Escobar's and not Braun's. to rely too heavily on Gamel being able to produce right away is such a huge risk i'd rather not take. even if Macha misused him, his bat never really jumped out and demanded to be in the starting lineup.

[dlk9s]

Let's not forget that losing Braun would greatly decrease the average attractiveness of the roster. We already traded J.J. Hardy. I don't know if we can afford to lose another heartthrob.

[hawing]

Let's not forget that losing Braun would greatly decrease the average attractiveness of the roster. We already traded J.J. Hardy. I don't know if we can afford to lose another heartthrob.

Oh, now, you never know who'll be acquired. Doesn't the statistics universe have an ECI (Eye Candy Index)? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't know what to think about this other than I don't beleive it has any basis in reality. The very things that make Braun attractive to us would be things that give us a greater return. As a general rule I don't like trading players who have made a commitment to the team like he and YoGa did. There are a lot of guys Lie prince who are good players and decent people besides but want to siphon every last dime they can get out of the team. Braun seems like a guy who may be inclined to give us a bit of a home town discount in exchange for comfort and stability next time around as well. Hate to lose that type of player on a team that hardly ever gets them.

 

 

Doesn't the statistics universe have an ECI (Eye Candy Index)?

 

It's understandable that retiree's such as yourself didn't know it but they have the HTI (heart throb index). I've heard rumor that is the biggest downside to Fielder's trade value.

 

P.S. I can say mean things to those younger than I as long as I follow the OCPI (old curmudgeons privilege index). According to the chart someone only slightly younger can be called a retiree only if said person was asked if they were retired in the past 6 months by a dental hygienist.

[Menace II Sobriety]

I wasn't acting like an ass, just trying to kid around.

It just seems that more often than not, when people don't have a rebuttal they try to belittle others to give their viewpoint more clout by negativity. I still have not seen one reason why they couldn't trade Braun other that a fan revolt and he is the face of the franchise. Those are 2 big points but it only took C.C. one week to become the face of the franchise. I feel as though Sheets felt slighted after spending years here and in swoops C.C. and steals his thunder. I realize Sheets was hurt but no one talks about Braun's walkoff outside of Milwaukee it is all about C.C. and how he led the team to the playoffs. No one shows up in September to watch Braun play, they show up to watch a winning team.

 

Here is a list of players I feel have more value than Braun as of today:

1. Longoria

2. Hanley

3. Votto

4. Zimmerman

5. Heyward

6. Posey

7. Pedroia

8. Utley

9. Tulo

 

Braun, Cano, David Wright, Upton, Hamilton,Carlos Gonzalez

 

These are not in order of where I would rate them but ahead of Braun. So Braun would be in the 8-12 range.

 

Here are some pitchers, I am probably leaving a few off as I did this quick:

 

1. Josh Johnson

2. Strasburg

3. Lester

4. Jimenez

5. Felix

6. Weaver

7. Price

8.Kershaw

9. Buccholz

10. Bumgarner

11. Tommy Hanson

12. Wainwright

13.Greinke

 

 

If you could trade Braun for almost any of those pitchers straight up you would take it in a second. This leaves off all of the big contracts out there. You can fight a spot here or there but the main point is Braun is a a very tradable chip and we would be lucky to get a pitcher of this caliber back. I am not stating that Braun is injury prone as much as stating that he has been underperforming his anticipated level of production while still maintaining an extremely nice output. He has not and might not ever be able to outperform that level he put up as a rookie. I realize that is asking a lot, but if people are going to call him a HOF'er.

[RockCoCougars]

.

 

Here is a list of players I feel have more value than Braun as of today:

1. Longoria

2. Hanley

3. Votto

4. Zimmerman

5. Heyward

6. Posey

7. Pedroia

8. Utley

9. Tulo

 

Braun, Cano, David Wright, Upton, Hamilton,Carlos Gonzalez

 

These are not in order of where I would rate them but ahead of Braun. So Braun would be in the 8-12 range.

 

Here are some pitchers, I am probably leaving a few off as I did this quick:

 

1. Josh Johnson

2. Strasburg

3. Lester

4. Jimenez

5. Felix

6. Weaver

7. Price

8.Kershaw

9. Buccholz

10. Bumgarner

11. Tommy Hanson

12. Wainwright

13.Greinke

 

 

If you could trade Braun for almost any of those pitchers straight up you would take it in a second. This leaves off all of the big contracts out there. You can fight a spot here or there but the main point is Braun is a a very tradable chip and we would be lucky to get a pitcher of this caliber back. I am not stating that Braun is injury prone as much as stating that he has been underperforming his anticipated level of production while still maintaining an extremely nice output. He has not and might not ever be able to outperform that level he put up as a rookie. I realize that is asking a lot, but if people are going to call him a HOF'er.

Maybe it's the homer in me, but I don't think that I would trade Braun for anybody on your player list though Ramirez or Posey would be tempting. Mostly because Braun is better and/or cheaper/locked in for longer. As for the pitchers, I'd probably do it for Felix and Price and that's about it. I wouldn't roll the dice on Strasburg, that's for sure.

[Menace II Sobriety]

RockCoCougars wrote:Maybe it's the homer in me, but I don't think that I would trade Braun for anybody on your player list though Ramirez or Posey would be tempting. Mostly because Braun is better and/or cheaper/locked in for longer. As for the pitchers, I'd probably do it for Felix and Price and that's about it. I wouldn't roll the dice on Strasburg, that's for sure.

I was not meaning to trade an offensive player for Braun but trying to gauge his actual trade value among players with similar contracts. You must have missed that part, but if you are only willing to trade Braun for Felix or Price in all of MLB than you are probably being a bit of a homer.

[TooLiveBrew]

It just seems that more often than not, when people don't have a rebuttal they try to belittle others to give their viewpoint more clout by negativity.

 

Since I wasn't interested in any way in making a rebuttal, or arguing with you in any fashion, I just made a (obviously lame) joke. But if you need to pat yourself on the back & over-analyze the deeper meaning of what I said, go for it. All it was was a lame joke; I didn't think you were seriously stating you think Braun is injury-prone & that needs to be considered in his long-term value.

 

 

I still have not seen one reason why they couldn't trade Braun other that a fan revolt and he is the face of the franchise.

 

And I was strongly advocating the Brewers make the unrealistic Lester for Braun trade straight up earlier in the thread. You seem to be focusing your anger on someone that isn't disagreeing with you in any way.