Brewers may shop Braun? Gammons says he's hearing so...

[strawbossisevil]

I don't think it's so terrible. Our rotation would have the potential to be amazing.

 

This season:

Lester

Gallardo

Buchholtz

Wolf

Jeffress/Rogers

 

If Jeffress or Rogers pans out as a top of the rotation starter, we would likely have the top rotation in baseball. Plus our defense would likely improve with both Braun and Fielder moving on.

 

Our offense wouldn't be that bad, and we would have significant money to spend on it.

 

We'd still have (all who have the capacity of being above average for their position):

Weeks

Hart

McGehee

 

Lucroy should be fairly average offensively as a catcher.

Cain should be fairly average offensively for a CF.

 

Add to that:

Gamel (LF)

Lowrie (1B)

 

The only player who would significantly below average in that offense would be Escobar, and there is still hope that he'll get better with experience.

[RyDogg66]

Yeah, Id hate the idea of trading Fielder and Braun, but a rotation mentioned above, with replacements like Lawrie and Gamel filling in for Prince and Brauny the offense wouldnt be as bad as the Giants and the pitching would deeper.

[molitor fan]

this new ootp forum is great.....

 

Gammons is a puppet and has been for over a decade. There is a reason I loathe the Red Sox even more than the Yankees and revelled in their injuries and falling behind the Rays. No team gets to manipulate the media more than the Red Sox and in today's day and age of immediate communication it is a powerful tool. The fact that Braun's agent had to respond to it is telling, and now Braun has it in his head that there is a suitor that wants him that may be more attractive - that's crud in my eyes and extremely dirty pool. Melvin is too nice of a guy....I would be in Andrew Jackson's grill over this for sure.

[Mass Haas]

Maybe the person in Milwaukee that Gammons supposedly heard from was Anthony Witrado. I remember last year he was trying to put out the idea that the Brewers might shop Braun as well.

AUDIO -- Witrado on WSSP earlier this week

[RockCoCougars]

Braun and Fielder are both on a pace to be hall of famers. Trading Prince might make sense, but only because they would be forced to because of financial considerations. I know that pitching is a valuable commodity, but trading both in one deal would be akin to the Brewers trading Yount and Molitor for something like Scott McGregor and Dennis Martinez in 1981. Let's face it, this offense would be worse than the Giants without Prince and Braun, and even if you add Lester and Buchholz, the rotation wouldn't be quite as good either.

[Gobias Industries]

I would do Lester for Braun if it was contingent on signing Carl Crawford to a deal to take over in LF.

 

I would keep Fielder for the season and make a run at it..you always have the option of dealing him at the deadline if it doesn't work out. I'd leave Gamel in AAA for a good part of the season playing 1B getting ready to take over for Prince in 2012.

[GAME05]

Straw's lineup has been in my head, too, and it's definitely appealing. and that doesn't even consider whatever FA hitters we would no doubt add.

 

now, i doubt 99% that Braun will be traded, if ever, but it's fun that this is yet another viable option that Melvin has to work with this offseason. just a million different directions this team could go this offseason. but i can't think of a .500 or better-caliber club that has traded its best two players in one season before.

 

it's an intriguing concept just the way the market typically goes. if i'm not mistaken, Melvin has said himself that the pitching market is always more fickle than the hitting market. suddenly we'd have two youngish and mostly dependable guys in the rotation for a lot of years, and you're never going to find pitchers of that ability and age in the FA market ever. suddenly we wouldn't have to worry about our rotation for the next four years.

 

it's also a plus considering the late-season trade market. for good reason, many of us consider Odorizzi almost untradeable, but now we'd have him, Rogers, Jeffress and Rivas as trading pieces when it came time to adding someone for a playoff run, and young pitchers are definitely more valuable than hitters.

 

definitely a trade like this is creating one weakness to solve another, but i think hitting is a weakness that is easier to solve than pitching. and keeping Fielder would give us two years to solve that hitting problem, not just one. this year we replace Braun with Werth and have an overall better team. the following year we replace Fielder with someone else.

[kramnoj]

and now Braun has it in his head that there is a suitor that wants him that may be more attractive

 

You think this is the first time that Braun has thought another team may want him? I don't think I can recall a player that is more openly confident in himself. I'm going to guess that Braun assumes that every team would want him.

[NievesNoNO]

Makes for interesting conversation, but I doubt a trade like this goes down. On the other hand, if you're the Brewers I think that nobody's untouchable (although Braun should be as close as they come). The truth is with both Braun and Fielder this team was a losing club. If you can upgrade your pitching and stock some more young talent I think you consider it. It would be kind of fun to see a bidding war for Braun as someone all ready mentioned the whole league could get involved.

[Gobias Industries]

The more I'm thinking about this, the more I love it. Would have to get Crawford to replace Braun though, otherwise we're just fixing one hole to create another.

 

2B- Weeks

LF- Crawford

RF - Hart

1B- Fielder

3B- McG

CF- Cain

SS- Escobar

C- Lucroy

 

Rotation: Lester, Yo, Wolf, Narveson, and Cappy.

 

Roenicke has 5 guys in the starting lineup that could easily steal 30. 2 front end starters if we were to get to the playoffs.

[TooLiveBrew]

Would have to get Crawford to replace Braun though, otherwise we're just fixing one hole to create another.

 

You wouldn't have to if you're comfortable with Gamel's bat.

[PrinceFielderx1]

I would love for the Brewers to sign Crawford if they trade Braun, but they seem to be unwilling to go above 100 million. Crawford would be a perfect fit for Roenicke style of play that he wants to impose on this team. Perfect.

[RockCoCougars]

I have no interest whatsoever in Carl Crawford to replace Braun for much more money. Crawford is nowhere near the same class as Braun, and I've always felt that he was overrated due to his 'fantasy rating' (e.g. steals a lot of bases). He's basically Garrett Anderson with speed (don't get me wrong, Anderson had a good career). This doesn't even call into account the fact that Crawford's going to cost at least $15 million per for 4 or 5 seasons.

[TooLiveBrew]

While I agree with you on the 'fantasy value' aspect of Crawford, his tremendous defense more than makes up for his offensive shortcomings when compared to Braun. Braun's highest WAR value in his career so far is 4.9. Crawford's past two seasons have been 6.9 & 5.7.

[chadomac]

Witrado sees Braun's contract as a reason he's more likely to be traded, I see it as a reason that he's less likely to be traded.

 

Also, Witrado is bad for America.

[joepepsi]

While I agree with you on the 'fantasy value' aspect of Crawford, his tremendous defense more than makes up for his offensive shortcomings when compared to Braun. Braun's highest WAR value in his career so far is 4.9. Crawford's past two seasons have been 6.9 & 5.7.

Am I missing something? According to b-ref.com, Crawford's WAR the last two years is 4.4 and 4.8. Nevertheless, if he's out there as a free agent, wouldn't it make more sense for Boston to keep Lester and/or Buchholz and just sign Crawford?

[Invader3K]

We're never going to sign Crawford or Werth; or at least outbid NYY, LAA, BOS, and whatever other big market teams have interest in those two.

 

Do Twins fans sit around talking about trading Morneau, or Rays fans talk about trading Longoria? This whole idea of dealing Braun just seems really insulting to me, personally.

[sveumrules]

BRef uses Total Zone for their defensive component while fangraphs uses UZR which accounts for the discrepancy.

[GAME05]

Do Twins fans sit around talking about trading Morneau, or Rays fans talk about trading Longoria? This whole idea of dealing Braun just seems really insulting to me, personally.

the Twins can make the playoffs as they are, so they have every reason to stand pat. we're not that sort of team. and the Devil Rays are letting loose everyone on that team, so maybe they should start to have that conversation of trading Longoria.

 

i know it's mostly for fun, but it's interesting to think that we could do a 180 in an instant and be loaded with pitching and lacking hitting.

[Invader3K]

Well, yes, it's interesting. But realistic? No. I also think some people are really over reaching in thinking that Gamel and Lawrie are just going to waltz in and be in any way comparable to Braun/Fielder (defense aside, which is also far from clear cut). Lawrie is still probably a couple years away, from my understanding.

 

The team has many other assets to trade before worrying about Ryan Braun. Throwing Braun out there right now sounds like a desperation move.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Witrado sees Braun's contract as a reason he's more likely to be traded, I see it as a reason that he's less likely to be traded.

 

Also, Witrado is bad for America.

I think what he means is that Braun's contract would be more attractive to other teams than Fielder's. Not that the Brewers would want to dump that kind of a contract.

[Menace II Sobriety]

We're never going to sign Crawford or Werth; or at least outbid NYY, LAA, BOS, and whatever other big market teams have interest in those two.

 

Do Twins fans sit around talking about trading Morneau, or Rays fans talk about trading Longoria? This whole idea of dealing Braun just seems really insulting to me, personally.

Maybe they talk about trading their top players and maybe they don't, but both of those teams do something that the Brewers don't and that is win. You find it insulting that the team would consider trading Braun, I find it insulting that the team only sniffed the playoffs once in the last 5 years with all of these players and regressed the last two.

 

I have mentioned to a few of my friends for the last few months that I felt this could be the off-season the crew traded or started talks about trading Braun. Personally I feel he may be starting to wear out his welcome. It was reported that he was the one that shut out Macha, also with those statements he made about getting more pitching 2 seasons ago. I know these are only 2 examples but in a small market like ours, these stories never make it into the paper. The fact that they did leads me to believe that many stories of a similar nature have been held back over the past few years.

 

My point is that if the Brewers can make a trade and get a TOP P in return for Braun with a similar contract, it is worth exploring. What they are doing isn't working. What happens if DM can get a Lars Anderson type back with that top pitcher. All of a sudden you have a 1B ready to step in. I realize that all Sawx prospects are overrated in the national media, but he is close to ready and Boston is the team in this discussion.

 

I do not necessarily want to trade Braun but he has had chronic injuries the last 2 seasons that he happened to talk about constantly without ever mentioning them. Also we already know that the trade market for Prince was down during the trade deadline by reports stating Melvin was shocked how few people were calling about him.

 

I realize this opinions are on the wrong side of the fence for a lot of people, but that doesn't mean the team couldn't be better without Braun than with in the correct scenario.

[kramnoj]

was reported that he was the one that shut out Macha

 

I don't think that's a complete version of what happened. Macha admitted that he didn't do a good job communicating in his first year when he came into ST his second year and said that he was going to make communication a priority.

 

So, if I'm Braun or Fielder, and this dude who hasn't gone out of his way to talk to me in the past year decides to start talking to me now, so he can save his job, I'm not going to go out of my way to help this guy. I'll do what needs to be done for the team, but I'm not going to go hang with Macha because he's trying to save his job.

 

Now if anyone can say that Braun or Fielder skipped team meetings, or they didn't get some signal they were supposed to in a game because they weren't communicating with Macha, that would be a different story. But I'm not aware of that being true.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I really don't see any significant evidence to say that Braun sabotaged Macha or something. Maybe there's more to the story that we don't know about, but I think it's kind of pointless to speculate at this point.

 

Another way I look at this: Braun is the one guy (other than Gallardo now) who stepped up to the plate and signed a long term deal. Fielder hasn't and isn't going to. Weeks hasn't (yet). Hart didn't at first, then finally signed a three year deal when it looked like he was going to get traded. Ryan Braun has established himself here in Wisconsin with restaurants and other business ventures. I think it would be a real shame to send out such a high caliber athlete that seems to want to stay here and has placed himself as part of the community. We don't get to see that too often as Brewers fans.

[Menace II Sobriety]

was reported that he was the one that shut out Macha

 

I don't think that's a complete version of what happened. Macha admitted that he didn't do a good job communicating in his first year when he came into ST his second year and said that he was going to make communication a priority.

 

So, if I'm Braun or Fielder, and this dude who hasn't gone out of his way to talk to me in the past year decides to start talking to me now, so he can save his job, I'm not going to go out of my way to help this guy. I'll do what needs to be done for the team, but I'm not going to go hang with Macha because he's trying to save his job.

 

Now if anyone can say that Braun or Fielder skipped team meetings, or they didn't get some signal they were supposed to in a game because they weren't communicating with Macha, that would be a different story. But I'm not aware of that being true.

Fair enough I mis-worded my point. Macha stated the two biggest disconnects were Braun and Fielder. My interpretation was that they shut him out, whether he made an effort immediately or not, most everyone else came around other than Luis Cruz. I believe the exact quote was "Braun is going to do what Braun is going to do." They don't have to hang out or even get along but that quote leads me to believe there is more to the story, and he has his own agenda. Edit: I am not saying he sabotaged Macha, I am just saying that maybe Macha isn't the only one that deserves blame.

 

Where is Braun honestly rated as an offensive player across both leagues? Would it be worth trading him for a similar rated pitcher? My opinion is yes.