Brewers may shop Braun? Gammons says he's hearing so...

[Mass Haas]

NESN link with audio

Suppose anything's possible, but that's out there.

 

It's a pet peeve of mine, but Spink and Frick Award winners aren't technically members of the Hall of Fame. Sorry Gammons, sorry Bob Uecker, with my apologies.

 

Winners are not considered to be members of the Hall. They are not "inducted" or "enshrined", but are permanently recognized in an exhibit at the Hall's library.

They will be feted at banquets everywhere as Hall of Famers, and they deserve their due. But those awards need to be handed out every two years, not every year. End of monologue, back to Braunie...

 

***

 

Jon Lester would be a nice swap, thank you very much. Makes you wonder about the sometimes moody Ryan if these rumblings are legit.

 

Braun --

11: $4M, 12: $6M, 13: $8.5M, 14: $10M, 15: $12M

may earn additional $6M if Braun qualifies as a Super 2 after 2009 season (increasing salaries to: 10:$3.5M, 11:$5.5M, 12:$7.5M, 13:$9M)

award bonus: $50,000 for All Star selection

no-trade clause 2008-11, limited no-trade clause 2012-13 (may block deals to 12 clubs), limited no-trade clause 2014-15 (may block deals to 6 clubs)

 

Lester --

 

11: $5.75M, 12: $7.625M, 13: $11.625M, 14: $13M club option ($0.25M buyout)

2014 club option is voided if Lester is traded and has finished first or second in Cy Young vote any season from 2009 to 2013

 

Buchholz --

 

Buchholz isn't arbitration-eligible until after 2011 or free agent-eligible until after 2014

[BrewCrewForever]

I just can't see the Brewers shopping Braun. Especially when they will lose Fielder one way or another after 2011. But I suppose you can't never say never. I have to admit, I would be pretty disappointed if they dealt Braun, to me he is and has a chance to be the modern day Yount. Mr. Brewer. Hopefully Gammons is just blowing smoke.

[Invader3K]

Sounds like a Red Sox fan's wishful thinking more than anything. It would be suicidal for the Brewers from a business standpoint to see both Fielder and Braun depart within the span of a season.

 

I hope Braun finishes his career as a Brewer. He's a future Hall of Famer if he continues his current pace. I posted this a while ago, but here is baseball-reference.com's comparisons for Ryan Braun through age 26:

 

Chick Hafey (939) *

Manny Ramirez (937)

Raul Mondesi (931)

Shawn Green (928)

Jim Thome (913)

Jeff Heath (912)

Charlie Keller (912)

Billy Williams (909) *

Mark Teixeira (909)

Ralph Kiner (908) *

 

Three Hall of Famers on that list, and at least one more probable (Manny Ramirez...not sure about Jim Thome, but he's probably in the discussion, and Teixeira could be there someday as well). Why would they possibly trade five years of control over him right now?

[jwill535]

Melvin wouldnt be doing his job if he wasnt kicking the tires on all possibilities.

[Invader3K]

Melvin wouldnt be doing his job if he wasnt kicking the tires on all possibilities.

Kicking tires is one thing, but Gammons' report sounds irresponsible to me. I think he's just making stuff up, to be honest. The report I read said that Braun could fit for the Red Sox at 3B. That is just plain silly since he hasn't played there since '07 and was terrible defensively.

Braun will make $4 million this year and his salary escalates annually to a "whopping" $12 million in 2015. Why the hell would the Brewers possibly deal such a valuable player? It makes no sense. It's a Red Sox fan's wet dream, but it isn't going to happen.

[crewcrazy]

With Braun's contract, either you offer me Clay Buchholz and Casey Kelly as a starting point or I'm hanging up.

 

It really sounds like Peter Gammons is just irresponsibly throwing this out there. He even says he has no idea if the Brewers would do it or not. It's really tiring listening to national media types looking at the Brewers like a farm system for the "big boys." Yeah, they're not going to be able to sign Prince Fielder, but that doesn't mean they're the same old Brewers.

 

I'm kind of surprised no one in New York has said, "The Yankees need pitching -- if they can't get Cliff Lee, I'm sure the Brewers would be willing to trade Yovani Gallardo!"

[Invader3K]

Exactly. How often did we hear rumors about Ben Sheets getting traded after '04 as well? Same old, same old here.

[craigharmann]

I take what good old Andrew Jackson says with an infinite amount of grains of salt.

[paul253]

I would definitely listen to offers for Braun if it brings back two very good starters. The fact is, nobody here knows how Braun will hit once Fielder leaves. He's had Prince behind him ever since he's been here. When Braun hits behind Fielder, he seems to struggle. I am not saying offer him out there to anyone, but you gotta listen to offers. Boston apparently needs bullpen help too, so why not Braun and Villy for Lester, Bucholz and a top prospect? That's a pretty serious upgrade the rotation.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

Every year we hear rumors about how the Brewers are going to trade their best players to the Red Sox or Yankees. They are always started by writers who would like to see our guys on their team. My guess is that their have been talks initiated by the Red Sox. Doug probably listened instead of hanging up. I doubt their was any negotiations.

[Invader3K]

I don't think there have been any talks between the two teams whatsoever. This was just Gammons speculating, but idiotically so.

I'll say it again. Braun is signed to a very favorable contract and is an elite offensive player. You don't trade those kinds of guys if you're a small market team, you build around them. Otherwise we would end up with some good pitching but a very anemic offense (if both Fielder and Braun were to leave).

[Hofbraunhaus]

I'd be ok with trading Braun because the only way he gets traded is if a team makes us a ridiculous offer we absolutely can't refuse. That being said, there is no way that happens.

[Mass Haas]

I would definitely listen to offers for Braun if it brings back two very good starters. Boston apparently needs bullpen help too, so why not Braun and Villy for Lester, Bucholz and a top prospect? That's a pretty serious upgrade the rotation.

 

Anybody who wouldn't trade Ryan Braun straight up for Jon Lester hasn't seen enough of Jon Lester.

My opinion. And Buchholz is right there, too, close behind. Please don't lump them together in a potential deal, it's not fair to the Sox.

If I'm Doug Melvin this AM, I'd be picking up the phone and giving Gammons a piece of my mind. It's so irresponsible, and Gammons just acts as though there are no repurcussions in the clubhouse, media, etc.

[JohnBriggs12]

Pitchers carry much higher risks than everyday players (see Mark Prior). The Brewers would be foolish to entertain dealing a cost certain top of the line player they control for 5 more of his prime years for any pitcher including Lester and Strasburg for that matter.

 

Melvin isn't the smartest guy in baseball, but he's certainly smart enough to know that.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say Gammons heard the Brewers are likely to hold on to Fielder because they aren't getting the interest they want. So he and some others in the game took the leap to conclude they would look at dealing their other big chip because they are so "desperate" for pitching. That this coincides with a Red Sox need, figures into this thinking as well.

 

Nevermind that the Brewer pitching over the second half wasn't all that terrible, that Rogers and Jeffress showed tremendous promise in September, they have trade chips not named Fielder and Braun, and if they can't get a deal for a pitcher, they do have some money they could spend in the FA market.

[And That]

It's cliche to say, but it's true... I wouldn't trade Ryan Braun straight up for Jon Lester because Lester is one arm injury away from losing all of his value. Braun is not only signed longer than Lester, it's much less likely a severe injury will threaten his career in the next five years.

 

It is so hard to put a value on what we'd have to get back from Braun because he's a really good player with a really good contract, a combination a small/mid-market club like Milwaukee doesn't often have in its possession. I wouldn't trade him just for Lester and certainly not just for Buchholtz. OTOH, the Red Sox would be kind of crazy to give up both of them in the same deal.

 

Perhaps we can trade them Gallardo too?

[thebruce44]

This is completely ridiculous.

[CheezWizHed]

Perhaps trading Braun would be an indication that they would sign Fielder to a long term contract.... As others have said, I can't see both leaving.

[Hofbraunhaus]

Perhaps trading Braun would be an indication that they would sign Fielder to a long term contract.... As others have said, I can't see both leaving.

That is the only way I could see a Braun trade happening. However, as much as I love Prince, I would rather have Braun long term than him.

[TooLiveBrew]

Anybody who wouldn't trade Ryan Braun straight up for Jon Lester hasn't seen enough of Jon Lester.

I agree completely. Lester is an absolutely dominant pitcher. I'd make that trade in a second.

 

 

It's cliche to say, but it's true... I wouldn't trade Ryan Braun straight up for Jon Lester because Lester is one arm injury away from losing all of his value. Braun is not only signed longer than Lester, it's much less likely a severe injury will threaten his career in the next five years.

I understand the general risk of injury with pitchers, but you can't let that stand in your way of improving the team. Braun's contract is nice, so perhaps you could get Boston to include a prospect with Lester, but expecting much more for one of the top 10 pitchers in MLB is a bit greedy. Besides, Lester's contract is only one season shorter than Braun's; we'd be getting four seasons of Lester, which would be huge.

 

But like most are saying, this sounds like complete hot air from Gammons. Honestly the team that I think wouldn't/shouldn't do this is Boston, not Milwaukee. Arms like Lester are much harder to find than LF/DH bats like Braun.

[crewcrazy]

Perhaps trading Braun would be an indication that they would sign Fielder to a long term contract.... As others have said, I can't see both leaving.

The one thing Gammons said that I would believe is that Boras is telling people that it's going to take a Mark Teixeira-sized deal to get him to skip/delay free agency. That'd be idiotic for any team to pay, let alone the Brewers.

 

I'd normally be in the "check every option" camp, but when it comes to dealing Braun, I have a hard time with it. We're 98% sure that Prince Fielder is gone, regardless of what happens with Braun. If you trade Braun with the hope of signing Prince long-term, odds are you're left without either after this season, and that's the type of thing that can cripple a franchise.

[GAME05]

we have one report that lists the Brewers as possible suitors for Lee, and now a report that has the Brewers at least considering trading Braun for top-notch pitching. the first time you hear a report like that you give a "no way." the next time you think "really doubtful," what what happens at the third? the fourth?

 

easy to figure that Melvin is pretty anxious to get a starter who can at least compliment Gallardo, and who knows how anxious Attanasio is. maybe it's just possible that DM has found absolutely no interest in Fielder and is now on Plan 9.

[joepepsi]

Perhaps trading Braun would be an indication that they would sign Fielder to a long term contract.... As others have said, I can't see both leaving.

That is the only way I could see a Braun trade happening. However, as much as I love Prince, I would rather have Braun long term than him.

If we are talking about the next 5-6 years, I'd rather have Prince. He may not be much of a player after that, but for the last few years he's really been the face of the franchise.

 

I thought Braun looked relatively disinterested this year. He doesn't appear to care about improving his defense. Gamel could stand out in LF as effectively as Braun and probably post stats similar to Braun's 2010.

 

I certainly wouldn't look to trade Braun, but if someone wanted to blow Melvin away with an offer, such as Lester or Buchholz plus more, he has to seriously consider it.

[GAME05]

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Perhaps trading Braun would be an indication that they would sign Fielder to a long term contract

 

maybe. but since Boras doesn't offer hometown discounts and will clearly have Fielder testing the FA market, it'd be just as easy to sign any other position player for the 2012 season. for $25M per season, i think you can find better players than Prince.

[And That]

I understand the general risk of injury with pitchers, but you can't let that stand in your way of improving the team.

Going by WAR, Lester averages about one win better than Braun over the past 3 years (5.7 vs. 4.6). One win is something, but it's not enough risk premium for me, especially since I don't know if Lester is going to get any better than he already is and I think Braun has at least one 5 WAR season in him in the near future.

 

I also wouldn't downplay Braun's extra year at the end of the contract... that's still huge value.

[GAME05]

makes me wonder what the real value is in keeping a potential HOFer (or at least a perennial All-Star) in a Brewers uniform for as long as possible vs. making big moves like this. bring in Lester and that sells a lot of tickets from people wanting to see him pitch. yet Braun is the face of the franchise, and people used to really identify the Brewers with Robin Yount. a lot of value to having Yount and George Brett and Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn as citywide heroes, too.