Who would you move to first base if Prince is dealt?

[logan82]

Ultimately, and this is something I have said many times, we need to stop putting our worst defenders at first just because we have no other options.

 

All teams do this. LF and 1B are where the bats play especially in the NL where there isn't a DH.

[RockCoCougars]

This is born out by the fact that the Brewers were approximately 10 games under .500 vs. RH starters during 2008-2010 while finishing about 15 over .500 during the same timeframe.

 

I don't see anything born out here. I see you saying the Brewers were a winning team over that time span.

 

The goal isn't to accumulate the best record vs RHP, it's to assemble the best team and record possible.

 

 

I'm curious, why would you say that is a good number?

I'd say it's somewhat statistically significant that over the past 3 seasons, a team stocked with right-handed hitting is a below .500 club against RH starting pitchers, but has a winning percentage over .550 when playing against a team starting a lefty. Unfortunately for the Brewers, about 70% of the time they are facing a righty. If you look at these stats, it seems to fly in the face of assembling the best team and winning possible.

 

I'd say you should have at least 2 or 3 guys in your regular lineup that are left handed or switch hitters, because it allows you to alternate a few lefties and righties in your batting order. Most teams carry around 2 left handed relievers, but the Brewers make it easy for them because the only legit lefty they have in the lineup is Prince. This is one of the reasons that he's pitched around so much. In the later innings, teams can leave a righty reliever in because the Brewers either have a string of righties coming to the plate or (insert name of mediocre hitter) pinch lefty pinch hitter on the bench. It makes it easier on the opposing managers, because they don't necessarily have to burn their LOOGY (and in turn another guy). They can just pitch around Prince.

[TooLiveBrew]

Ultimately, and this is something I have said many times, we need to stop putting our worst defenders at first just because we have no other options. It's not just a first base problem it's an organizational problem. LaPorta moved to first, Lawrie moved to where ever he will end up, Gamel moved to where ever he will end up, Braun to the outfield, Hart moved around.

 

Lawrie initially told the Brewers he wanted to catch since he thought that would be a quicker path to MLB, but then he changed his mind & didn't want to catch anymore. As best I can recall he's at 2B since he has the athleticism needed to handle 2B. Hart was moved from 1B to the outfield, which is generally considered more challenging. LaPorta wasn't moved, he was a DH/1B guy coming out of college. In fact the Brewers actually tried him in the outfield, attempting to maximize his value as a player (CLE played him in the OF as well). Braun was a SS & 3B at Miami, but the Brewers recognized early on that they'd need to play him at a less-challenging spot -- optimistically they tried 3B, & clearly that was a bust.

 

If I can see an organizational problem, it's not putting an emphasis on defensive talent, and drafting too many all-bat players. Basically every organization moves guys around in the minors, whether to develop versatility or to challenge a guy less or more on defense. Frankly I like that the Brewers try to see if guys will stick at positions where their bats would be more valuable; that just makes good sense imo (& one reason why I've lobbied so often for Gamel to remain at 3B).

[kramnoj]

If you look at these stats, it seems to fly in the face of assembling the best team and winning possible

 

The Brewers were 12th out of MLB teams in Runs/Game this year, 9th in 2009 and 17th in 2008. I don't think the offense was holding them back. You would have to demonstrate that the Brewers offense is being negatively impacted because of their balance before using their record as any kind of evidence.

I'd say you should have at least 2 or 3 guys in your regular lineup that are left handed or switch hitters, because it allows you to alternate a few lefties and righties in your batting order.

 

I would rather structure my lineup for the 3 or so times that my lineup faces the starter, and not focus on a few relief appearances.

[jerichoholicninja]

If I can see an organizational problem, it's not putting an emphasis on defensive talent, and drafting too many all-bat players.

I didn't really come out and say it but this is kind of what I was getting at. With the big bats that we've drafted the last few years the question seems to be where can they hurt us the least defensively. Obviously you need to draft good hitters but when they don't have a position you wind up where the Brewers are now with a few DH's and guys playing out of position and a below average to very below average defensive hurting your pitching staff.

[kramnoj]

It's a bit of an exaggeration to say that the Brewers have a few DHs on their team now. It's true that there are below average defensive players, but it's mostly more than compensated with offense.

[WestSideWillie]

when Prince is gone----move Braun to 1b.

[JohnBriggs12]

RockCoCougars is correct about them needing a lefty bat, but I'd prefer one of the FA, LaRoche or Berkman over an untested Gamel (who I'd trade).

[TooLiveBrew]

Nelson Cruz was "untested" once upon a time, and he was traded. I'm sure plenty of fans wish we'd hung onto him.

[thebruce44]

TooLiveBrew[/b]]Nelson Cruz was "untested" once upon a time, and he was traded. I'm sure plenty of fans wish we'd hung onto him.

Not to mention Gamel has actually held his own in a short stint of getting jerked around in the bigs. He is about as "tested" as a prospect can possibly be and still be a prospect.

 

And another plus about him is that he has shown the ability to hit lefties and righties. He is a fairly ideal LH to have in the everyday lineup.

 

[thebruce44]

It's a bit of an exaggeration to say that the Brewers have a few DHs on their team now. It's true that there are below average defensive players, but it's mostly more than compensated with offense.

Them making up for their defensive deficiencies with offense has nothing to do with the quality of their defense.

[RockCoCougars]

RockCoCougars is correct about them needing a lefty bat, but I'd prefer one of the FA, LaRoche or Berkman over an untested Gamel (who I'd trade).

In the event that Prince is moved, I'd be very interested in Berkman. He seems like a perfect medium-risk high reward type guy. I don't think he's coming here though, because it just makes too much sense for him to sign with the Rangers. I'd prefer to keep Gamel and move McGehee, if you could find a small market team that would like a 'proven' big-leaguer as part of a deal for a legit starter (I'm talking to you, K.C. - come on-'Casey', 'K.C.'- sounds like a perfect match....).

 

As for those wanting Dunn, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. He is going to be demanding a big money contract, and with his frame and age, I would say that he has only a few years left in him- at least as a position player.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't think he's coming here though, because it just makes too much sense for him to sign with the Rangers

 

I know what you mean on the Texas angle, but Berkman has said he wants to play 1B (as opposed to DHing). I'm guessing Moreland is probably going to be the guy at 1B heading forward for the Rangers.

"I like to play every day. The DH role is great but I also like to play the field. I feel like I've got something to offer still defensively." (Link)

 

"I definitely would like to be in the National League," Berkman said. "You see kind of the other side. I've been in the National League my whole career. It's a better game. It's crisper. I just like the way the game is played. That's one thing I would like. Again I'm dictating these terms and I don't have a whole lot of leverage yet. Who knows? There might be some interest. There might not be very much interest. It's hard for me to say what I will and won't do because I don't know how much leverage I've got. I don't think I will know until we start fielding calls." (Link)

I would definitely be in favor of signing Berkman to a one-year deal

[rluzinski]

Hart has been consistently below average at one of the easier positions in the field (RF), so he'll probably eventually end up at 1B anyway. It might better fit him anyway. As others have said, McGehee simply doesn't hit well enough to justify moving him to 1B. If he can't play 3B well enough, he really can't really be a major league starter. Gamel needs to just be given RF for a year, to sink or swim.

[mletto157]

I'm pretty amazed at how many Brewers' fans are so against "unproven" prospects like Gamel. Players like him are the only way this team has any chance to compete... Bringing in aging veterans is a losing proposition.

 

I really wanted to see Gamel stick at 3B because I think he has the tools to be a plus defender with good offense there. However, I think, given the state of the team, that he'll end up at RF with Hart at 1B. Then maybe Lawrie to 3B in a year... trade McGehee while his value is high(ish).

[GAME05]

Nelson Cruz was "untested" once upon a time, and he was traded. I'm sure plenty of fans wish we'd hung onto him.

Dana Eveland was untested, too.

[trwi7]

Dana Eveland was untested, too.

Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun, Rickie Weeks, Corey Hart and Yovani Gallardo were all untested too.

 

 

[mletto157]

GAME05 - are you Ken Macha in disguise?

[GAME05]

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Mark Newfield, Vinny Rottino, Ben Hendrickson....

 

going with "he's untested" of course finds you the gems like Hart and Weeks, but also gets you scrubs that will be out of baseball in a year. "test" everybody and you end up like the Pirates, who had Jason Bay and nobody else.

[TooLiveBrew]

Or you end up like the Rays or Rangers. I agree with mletto157, it's surprising how often "he's untested" comes up given the economic realities of MLB & the Brewers. Every player was once a prospect, and of course not every good prospect turns into a good MLB player. Gamel's really no slouch, though, and has hit MLB pitching quite well for a prospect.

[Beast Light]

Hart to 1st is a no-brainer. It was his position before the team drafted Fielder. He makes a great target at 6'6" and to be honest, at 29 years old, not really sure it is wise to have a guy his size running around in the OF. He is no spring chicken anymore.

 

As for RF, go with Gamel. If he doesn't cut it, there are always decent corner OF that can be had at a relatively low cost in FA. Braun and Cain would be locks in the OF and the only unsettled position would be RF and in my opinion, Gamel would be able to handle it.

 

Once this is done, the organization needs to shift its attention to finding a long-term solution at 3B. McGehee's successor needs to be identified or acquired. If Lawrie is ready in the next year or two, Weeks could help to net that individual.

 

Also, I have read a lot of posts where people ar concerned about player "x" being able to provide adequate production for "x" position. In my mind, that is not something that you should really worry about. What a team needs to do is acquire as much talent as possible and do everything realistically possible to get them in the lineup. If you have a strong lineup 1-8, who really cares if your 1B is good for only 18-22 HRs? I don't. Its all about total production.

[TooLiveBrew]

If Lawrie is ready in the next year or two, Weeks could help to net that individual.

 

Lawrie could also potentially be the answer at 3B. Since I've always really liked Weeks, I hope they can extend Rickie & that Lawrie can handle third.

[Invader3K]

If Lawrie is ready in the next year or two, Weeks could help to net that individual.

 

Lawrie could also potentially be the answer at 3B. Since I've always really liked Weeks, I hope they can extend Rickie & that Lawrie can handle third.

That makes sense. I could see the 2012 infield consisting of Hart (1B), Weeks, Escobar, and Lawrie at 3B. McGehee could get traded after this coming season, assuming he continues playing how he has the past two seasons.

[kramnoj]

Them making up for their defensive deficiencies with offense has nothing to do with the quality of their defense.

 

That is true. It is also true that the Brewers don't have anyone who is so bad defensively that they should only be a DH.

McGehee simply doesn't hit well enough to justify moving him to 1B.

It depends on the accompanying moves. Casey's wOBA, for example, would have put him around 14th for qualifying 1B. His offense certainly wouldn't be a plus, but for a pre-arby player who should be around average defensively at 1B, he could provide decent value.

[cadillacjosh]

In my dream scenario Brauny moves to 1st base. I'd have an outfield of Hart at RF, Gomez at CF and Cain at LF (Bare in mind, I love Carlos Gomez). The D of that outfield would be ridiculously good, I would even go so far as to say best outfield defense in the majors with that combination. The question of what to do with Gamel comes up. I would package up Casey/Fielder and ship em' both off, I think a lot of teams would take that trade for a pitcher. Gamel plays at 3rd. That is what I'd do, but that is a considerable hit on the offense.