Who would you move to first base if Prince is dealt?

[reillymcshane]

As there's been a lot of speculation about dealing Prince for pitching, I was curious to hear an analysis of who would be the best person to actually move to 1st base if the trade occurred. All involved Mat Gamel. There could be other options, especially in free agency, but I am limiting thing to him so it doesn't get to long.

 

Here are options:

 

1. Move Gamel to 1B

2. Move Gamel to RF, Hart to 1B

3. Gamel to 3B, move McGehee to 1B

4. Move Gamel to LF, Braun to 1B

 

Of Hart, McGehee and Braun, who's defense hurts us the most?

 

Obviously any move is dependent on Gamel taking over that position adequately. But if he can, what move makes us best defensively?

[GAME05]

we don't necessarily have to move anyone to First. i'm rooting for the return of Lyle Overbay.

[RockCoCougars]

we don't necessarily have to move anyone to First. i'm rooting for the return of Lyle Overbay.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see that happen.

[trwi7]

Hart.

[GAME05]

it seemed like a lot of people passed Hart when he was playing 1b in the minors, and certainly not because of Hart's offense. it's hard to think that if he couldn't stick to that position in the minors, that they'd suddenly give him a shot there in the Majors. plus that's all an already-bad defense needs is Hart at 1st. guh. and it's not like we've got superstar corner outfielders waiting in the wings to take Hart's spot in RF.

 

the cure for a poor defense screams bringing in a veteran at the position. i see a veteran at 1st as the perfect fit on defense. we wouldn't desperately need Gamel to immediately hit well as a starter and Gamel could be an often-used reserve at both corners (since a veteran would need some time off to rest). plus Gamel as a backup means that Counsel (provided he's resigned) isn't thrust into a full-time role if there were some injury emergency (no offense to the REAL CC).

 

i just don't like the idea of Gamel as a starter right now until he can show that he can hit from a backup role (i know it's harder to do that blah blah). losing Fielder is a big hit to our offense and i'd much rather see a veteran in there who (theoretically) would be able to put up a steadier performance than a pseudo-rookie could.

 

here are the potential/available ML FAs for 1b; a pretty ugly list:

 

Lance Berkman NYY *

Russell Branyan SEA

Adam Dunn WAS

Jason Giambi COL

Troy Glaus ATL

Aubrey Huff SF

Nick Johnson NYY *

Paul Konerko CWS

Mark Kotsay CWS

Derrek Lee ATL

Adam LaRoche ARZ

Mike Lowell BOS

David Ortiz BOS *

Lyle Overbay TOR

Carlos Pena TB

Mike Sweeney PHI

Jim Thome MIN

Ty Wigginton BAL

 

 

edit: oh, sorry. i guess the question was specifically about preferences for internal candidates. uh, Gamel, i guess:)

[greeg35]

it's hard to think that if he couldn't stick to that position in the minors, that they'd suddenly give him a shot there in the Majors.

 

 

He moved because of Fielder. I think he was actually pretty good at first.

That said, I'm in the McGehee to first, Gamel to third camp. I think both would have a good chance to be upgrades over who they replaced defensively.

[Dragonbait]

I'd move Hart if it's going to be internal..

 

I just love a tall guy at 1st to help nullify those throwing errors. Gamel's biggest problem is with throws, so by putting him in RF he can still use athleticism (sp). Course we're in the opinion that Gamel is going to hit major league pitching sometime soon.

[BrewCrewForever]

My gut says McGehee to 1B and Gamel to 3B. But I'm still not sure on Gamel's defense at 3B. Will be interesting to see where they play come spring. I still think Hart is a possibility to play 1B with Gamel going to RF. I guess whatever the club feels gives them the best defense is what they should go with.

[CheezWizHed]

it seemed like a lot of people passed Hart when he was playing 1b in the minors

 

Nope, just Prince.

 

It seems that the decision to move Gamel has already been made (just not in stone). And it seems that he doesn't like 1B, so I would think the Brewers are looking to have McGehee at 3B, Gamel in RF and Hart at 1B.

 

I think I would prefer Gamel at 3B, McGehee at 1B, Hart and Braun in the OF. Seems like that would limit shuffling and then the obvious upgrade would be to replace McGehee at 1B (eventually) with no more shuffling.

 

None of them really have the stick for 1B, except Braun. And it just seems like a waste to have Braun there. Give him more time in LF.

[jerichoholicninja]

I can only see McGehee being a worst defensive first baseman than Prince. I would prefer anyone but Casey moved the first.

[bensheeps]

I don't know Gamel's makeup at all (maybe he's cocky/confident enough not to care), but...

 

if he is the one moved to first and struggles will the fan base come down even harder on him as they unfairly compare him to the departed Prince? I just feel it may be easier on him if he is not thrust into a battle to "live up to Prince" in the fans' eyes. Hart and/or McGehee, as established players may be able to measure up better in some people's expectations.

[Ennder]

McGehee's bat is nothing special at 1B so not sure I like the idea of moving him. I really don't to sign him past his arbitration years either. If we do go with Gamel at 3B I'd want to sign someone who can play 3B full time if needed. A Felipe Lopez or Bill Hall type of guy who can play all over if Gamel works out.

[kramnoj]

I can only see McGehee being a worst defensive first baseman than Prince

 

Why do you feel that way? Casey was able to play 2B. Not very well, but he could play it. In what areas do you feel Casey is deficient in defensively compared to Prince?

[dadofandrew]

Casey rebounded from injury with a nice year at 3B, just a tad bellow average. Gamel is known for not making much of an effort to play 3B well, and has already complained about 1B. I can't imagine him ending up at 3B if McGehee is still around.

[kramnoj]

Gamel is known for not making much of an effort to play 3B well

 

I think that is overstating things. We have a comment that he hasn't responded to coaching on improving his throwing, but I don't think we have reason to believe that he plays without much effort. He certainly didn't display that in his limited time in the majors.

 

If Gamel didn't react as well as the staff liked in response to coaching, the staff is partially to blame. If Gamel really wasn't listening to coaches, you bench him until he does. What one accepts becomes the standard.

[sveumrules]

The last time Hart played more than 40 games at 1B was at High Desert in 2002. Braun clearly does not belong in the infield. McGehee's lack of range hurts him (or rather, the pitching staff) but overall I think he is fairly solid and the best defender of the three.

 

I also think the Brewers are past the point of moving their established MLB players all over the diamond, thus Gamel at 1B.

[TooLiveBrew]

Gamel is known for not making much of an effort to play 3B well, and has already complained about 1B

 

kramnoj addressed the first part well. Gamel didn't complain about 1B, he said he thought it was tougher than RF. Comments like this are how the flawed perceptions of players get fanned across the internet.

 

 

EDIT: From the objectively titled "Gamel not excited about 1B" blog entry by TH

Well, after talking to Gamel today, he doesn't sound that excited about the position.

 

"It was a lot easier for me (in right field) than first base," said

the third-base prospect, who played two games at first and five in right

with Class AAA Nashville before being called up by the Brewers. "It's a

lot less stressful.

 

"It's tougher than people think. First (base) ain't easy. I have a lot more respect for those guys knowing what they do."

Note that the first sentence is TH's own conjecture. Nowhere did Gamel complain, in fact, he went as far as to praise guys (Fielder, indirectly) that work at 1B. And honestly, has anyone ever heard Mat sound excited about anything? He's a pretty laid-back guy, at least in terms of how he comes across in interviews. I'll never take how someone thinks another person "sounds" as a valid way to judge a person's character or work ethic. Imho if TH wants to make the claim that Gamel has a negative attitude about 1B, TH needs to back it up. Provide a quote. Explain yourself. He did neither.

 

A beat writer wants to present a player in a certain light, so he slants his blog entry one way. Different beat writer, but instead of AW titling his post "Hardworking Gamel taking initiative", it's merely "Gamel could wind up an outfielder"

Outfield coach Ed Sedar said he thinks Gamel’s underrated speed and

throwing arm make him a decent fit in the outfield, and it’s just a

matter of repetition for him to learn the angles, park dimensions and

how to play a ball with the lights and window panels at the top of

Miller Park. Gamel has been taking fly balls in the outfield for a while

now, showing up during early BP to do so as well as getting his work in

during regular BP, and much of that initiative was Gamel’s own without

being prodded by coaches.

 

“It wasn’t even a demanded thing,” Sedar said. “He knew he had to get

out here and work because he hadn’t been doing much in the outfield, so

you have to tip your hat to him. He’s been out here every day during

early (BP), getting his swings as well as an extra 15 minutes in the

outfield. That’s only going to help him.”

[RockCoCougars]

I think that you need to get another left handed bat in the lineup regardless of what you do with Prince. You can't consistently start a lineup with 7 right handed hitters. I'd like to see Gamel given a chance somewhere before he is sold low. I'd prefer to sell high on McGehee and keep Prince at least until the deadline. This would open third up for Gamel. However, I think Gamel could handle first base without too much of a problem.

[kramnoj]

You can't consistently start a lineup with 7 right handed hitters.

 

Why not? What is the break even number? What is the gap between having a left handed hitter just to have one, versus having a superior right handed hitter?

 

I would like to assemble a team that gives me the best chance to win most of the time, and look at handedness as my last priority.

[RockCoCougars]

You can't consistently start a lineup with 7 right handed hitters.

 

Why not? What is the break even number? What is the gap between having a left handed hitter just to have one, versus having a superior right handed hitter?

Because in general, right handed hitters do not hit right handed pitching as well, and vice versa. This is born out by the fact that the Brewers were approximately 10 games under .500 vs. RH starters during 2008-2010 while finishing about 15 over .500 during the same timeframe. Unfortunately for the Brewers, they are facing right handers over 70 percent of the time.

 

I would say a good break even number would be 3 lefties in the regular lineup, or possibly two with Fielder in the mix.

[kramnoj]

This is born out by the fact that the Brewers were approximately 10 games under .500 vs. RH starters during 2008-2010 while finishing about 15 over .500 during the same timeframe.

 

I don't see anything born out here. I see you saying the Brewers were a winning team over that time span.

 

The goal isn't to accumulate the best record vs RHP, it's to assemble the best team and record possible.

 

I would say a good break even number would be 3 lefties in the regular lineup, or possibly two with Fielder in the mix.

 

I'm curious, why would you say that is a good number?

[endaround]

The one reason why dealing Fielder might be best is that the one top FA I could see having no problem signing with the Brewers is Adam Dunn. I mean how many opposing players feel comfortable enough to to walk up from the visiting team's dugout to visit the radio booth during a game? So he's my choice.

[sveumrules]

I love Dunn and given the fanlove 3TO guys have had in the past playing in Milwaukee think he would be a perfect fit if Prince were to be traded. However I feel like I recall him at one point or another saying something about not liking the batter's eye at Miller Park, though you'd never be able to tell from his 988 OPS in 551 career PAs at the Keg.

[jerichoholicninja]

I can only see McGehee being a worst defensive first baseman than Prince

 

Why do you feel that way? Casey was able to play 2B. Not very well, but he could play it. In what areas do you feel Casey is deficient in defensively compared to Prince?

Despite their listed height Casey looks the same height if not shorter than Prince. Height alone does not make a good or bad first basemen but that definitely was one of Prince's defensive liabilities and Casey will have the same deficiency. Casey has little mobility which will show itself more at first base when dealing with fielding balls while holding on runners and plays where the pitcher has to cover first. If we were to put Casey at first and Gamel at third Casey would have to deal with bad throws from Weeks and Gamel. It took Prince long enough to learn how to scoop and come off the base and we'll go through the same thing with Casey. Ultimately, and this is something I have said many times, we need to stop putting our worst defenders at first just because we have no other options. It's not just a first base problem it's an organizational problem. LaPorta moved to first, Lawrie moved to where ever he will end up, Gamel moved to where ever he will end up, Braun to the outfield, Hart moved around.

[kramnoj]

Ultimately, and this is something I have said many times, we need to stop putting our worst defenders at first just because we have no other options.

 

Calling Casey our worst defender is a presumption.

 

I appreciate your response, but I just don't see Casey as having less mobility than Prince.