The Brewers' Next Manager; Latest -- Valentine may have inside track to the job; Cora, Melvin, Roenicke also finalists

[Patrick425]

i'm not too concerned with whatever money the new manager gets. sure an extra $1M takes something out of the team's operating budget, but at the same time i don't think Melvin or Attanasio have ever said "Boy, we really want this guy, but it's just $1M more than we have right now." it's also really nitpicky to think that success or failure is going to come down to whether we spent that $1M extra or not, and not overall drafting/FA/waiver philosophies.

 

 

I understand this, but you have to have a line somewhere. What about $4 million a year? $5 million? Maybe $1 million is not going to make a big difference in payroll. However, if you take this attitude with every contract you sign. You end up with a bunch of overplayed players (and manager) and $10 to $20 million less in your budget that you should have. There is a market and a value for everything.

 

If Girardi is negotiating a contract for $3 million a year...I'm not sure how Valentine can be worth $3.3 million. Is some other club offering him this? Like someone else said..if he's asking for this type of money, I'm concerned about his motivation to manage.

[BrewCrewForever]

Melvin, Valentine, Cora, Roenicke. I don't care who gets the job. I just want the guy that Doug and Mark feel is best for the job. The guy they think can get the most out of this group of players and lead them back to the postseason. That's the guy I want.

[GAME05]

I understand this, but you have to have a line somewhere. What about $4 million a year? $5 million? Maybe $1 million is not going to make a big difference in payroll. However, if you take this attitude with every contract you sign. You end up with a bunch of overplayed players (and manager) and $10 to $20 million less in your budget that you should have. There is a market and a value for everything.

i don't think the situation fits to say that it's an attitude of overpaying for everything. if there were 24 other managers on the team, then i might have problems with overpaying for one single manager. but when you've only got one guy in charge then a team shouldn't be hesitant to spend a little more for a top guy. $700,000 more to pay a top manager is a great investment when that one guy could represent 2-3 extra wins.

[logan82]

$700,000 more to pay a top manager is a great investment when that one guy could represent 2-3 extra wins.

 

Could but don't. That is the really sad part about managers. They can make a difference but most are so stuck in doing things by the book that they don't make a difference. That is why I don't want a guy who has ever managed at the MLB level.

[Brewtacular]

I'm really hoping for Bobby. I was in Japan when he returned to Chiba Lotte and it really was impressive how he turned that franchise around(for the 2nd time). His commitment to Chiba, and Japan, was impressive. There are many similarities between Milwaukee and Chiba and I think he would be an excellent fit. Besides, I want a can of Bobby-beer!

[mothershipconnection]

Professional baseball managers are simply worth less in general. If a team is willing to spend about $4 mil per win in free agency, they must think managers have little to offer the team and/or they are all roughly the same in talent.

 

Agreed. I think most D-1 college coaches who aren't knee-jerk hotheads could manage an MLB team and not cost many wins. Meanwhile, because football is so dependent on play calling, substitutions and the like, a bad coach can ruin a team. Some members of this board could probably coach a talented baseball team to the playoffs, while all of us would make Wade Phillips look like Lombardi.

[Polish Falcons]

My research tells me the average MLB manager earns about $1.5 million. So in my mind, if we pay Valentine $3 million, the incremental cost of hiring Bobby Valentine is $1.5 million. $1.5 million is about the value of a Craig Counsell caliber player. If Bobby Valentine merits anything approaching the level of enthusiasm I am seeing from many on this board, I'd say he's well worth it. I'd do it. I voted for Bobby V, like most in the poll. And thanks for suggesting the poll Greg21, good idea!

[PKBadger]

I was looking at Bobby V's wikipedia page and found this item:

 

 

Since 1980, Valentine has owned and operated Bobby Valentine's Sports Gallery Cafe, a sports bar located in his hometown of Stamford. He claims to have invented the Wrap sandwich. He claims that his restaurant was the first anywhere to serve a sandwich in a tortilla wrap.

 

 

I already liked the guy for our manager, and now he's making outlandish sandwich claims? Pay him his money. He'll be a cult hero.

[ELCABALLO45]

Count me in as I really don't care how much we give the next manager. It really does not bother me.

 

I honestly don't have a big problem with any of the 4 finalist. But I would put Melvin 4th on my list.

[reillymcshane]

Valentine is an ego - no question.

 

He's also done very well in his two major league stops - putting up winning seasons 4 of his 6 full seasons in Texas and 5 of 6 full seasons in NY.

 

Some guys talk about him almost in awe at his knowledge of the game, his ability to push a player's button at the right time, etc. He supposedly works extraordinarily hard, and absolutely loves the game. Some people see him as a kind of a kook - or quirky if you favor him.

 

Here's a good overview of thoughts on him:

http://www.palmbeachpost....ing-presence-771378.html

 

Here's one other quote I found on him that I thought personified him:

Marlins right-hander Scott Strickland was

a member of the 2002 Mets. He loved playing for Valentine. “The guy

loves too win and he wants to win bad,” Strickland said. “If

you’re going to go to war, that’s the guy you want on your side… He’s

just a fighter. The thing I remember about him was he just hated losing

with a passion. I enjoyed my time with him… He’s not scared to chew your

 

ass out if you need it. He’s definitely not a guy that’s going to sit

back and let the boys play. Maybe he’s changed since I’ve had him, but

he was more of a take charge kind of guy. He’s not afraid to shake

things up a little bit.”

Others aren't so kind. They say he doesn't believe anyone can know more than himself. That he rides certain guys. That he can alienate others.

 

Here's one not so nice article from 11 years ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/19...html?ref=bobby_valentine

 

He has a rep for speaking his mind in public, including calling out his own players. You can call this good or bad - it is what it is.

 

He's also butted heads with management at times.

 

His time in Japan may have mellowed him a bit - and made him appreciate the game more. And at age 60, he might know there's not that many shots at managing left.

 

I would be excited to have him.

[GAME05]

so basically Valentine is awesome when the team is doing well and a megalomaniac when the team is losing? that kinda sounds like everybody.

[Invader3K]

Latest comments from Haudricourt on his blog:

 

It's my understanding that the Brewers probably will see what it takes to put a deal together with Bobby Valentine but also are open to hiring either Bob Melvin or Joey Cora. Nice to have three choices from which to choose that you feel comfortable with.

[chuckiehacks]

Latest comments from Haudricourt on his blog:

 

It's my understanding that the Brewers probably will see what it takes to put a deal together with Bobby Valentine but also are open to hiring either Bob Melvin or Joey Cora. Nice to have three choices from which to choose that you feel comfortable with.

This makes me question Melvin's decision-making ability. This is the second hiring decision in a row where he's basically said he's unable to identify one clear-cut, candidate. Last time, we just hired all of them. This time we're "comfortable" with all of the finalists.

 

[endaround]

Yes because nothing makes you a strong negotiator like saying we have no back up plan

[kramnoj]

If a team is willing to spend about $4 mil per win in free agency, they must think managers have little to offer the team and/or they are all roughly the same in talent.

 

A team could think a manager is worth two wins, but there's no reason to pay the manager $8M/year if the market for a manager isn't more than $3.5M/year.

[bjkrautk]

Yes because nothing makes you a strong negotiator like saying we have no back up plan

 

Well said. DM's leverage is that he feels comfortable with either Cora or BM (...and don't think those initials wouldn't be used as a pejorative) as Manager for this team, so he doesn't have to pay highway robbery rates for Bobby V.

 

At the same time, Bobby V. has his own alternative that he can leverage up to his asking price: if he doesn't take the Brewers job, he goes back to ESPN to offer up 'insight' with minimal real effort, and keep his name in consideration for just about every managerial job until he finds one to match his desired pay scale.

 

 

Regardless, I'm just hoping to be the first person here on BF.net to say "Valentine, I Choo-Choo-Choose You!"

[Patrick425]

Count me in as I really don't care how much we give the next manager. It really does not bother me.

Really? You have no line at all? $5 million a year? 10 million a year? I know that this will not happen...but you stated "you don't care how much".

 

I realize that money motivates everyone to some degree, but if these reports are true, this seems to be the ONLY thing motivating Valentine to come back to managing.

[Invader3K]

People have to remember Valentine isn't just some guy who managed for a couple years, went to Japan, and now only appears on ESPN baseball games. He managed for many years with both the Rangers and Mets, and brought an NL pennant to New York. Then he won a championship in Japan. Now he has a pretty high profile TV gig. I don't see how $3 million a year is really out of line with that level of experience and credentials.

 

What would be a fair salary in the minds of folks here? $2 million a year? Are we really going to dismiss something over an extra $1 million a season? I still say the extra attention and enthusiasm Valentine will bring is worth it.

[Patrick425]

Invader3K[/b]]People have to remember Valentine isn't just some guy who managed for a couple years, went to Japan, and now only appears on ESPN baseball games. He managed for many years with both the Rangers and Mets, and brought an NL pennant to New York. Then he won a championship in Japan. Now he has a pretty high profile TV gig. I don't see how $3 million a year is really out of line with that level of experience and credentials.

 

What would be a fair salary in the minds of folks here? $2 million a year? Are we really going to dismiss something over an extra $1 million a season? I still say the extra attention and enthusiasm Valentine will bring is worth it.

To tell you the truth, until I read this thread, I was not aware that MLB managers made so little. I realize that they didn't make what the players made but I certainly thought that guys like Cox, Torre, LaRussa, Girardi, Francona made more than 2 or 3 million a year. However, I guess they don't (or didn't - Torre, Cox).

 

Yes he has great credentials, but so do other managers who aparently are not making $3+ million a year. I could understand if there were one or two other clubs making him similar offers and we were competing with them, but that does not seem to be the case.

 

My biggest issue with this is that I don't think he really wants to manage again. The only draw for him is the money. If he really wants to manage then he should be more than happy to do it for $2 or $2.5 million a year, which would make him one of the best paid managers in MLB. If he won't do it for that, then he really does not want to manage in the first place.

 

 

[greeg35]

The guy they think can get the most out of this group of players and lead them back to the postseason. That's the guy I want.

 

 

I think its safe to say you will get exactly what you want.

[1992casey]

I think the managerial pay scale ranges from about a half a million to about three million.

[dlk9s]

This makes me question Melvin's decision-making ability. This is the second hiring decision in a row where he's basically said he's unable to identify one clear-cut, candidate. Last time, we just hired all of them. This time we're "comfortable" with all of the finalists.

So because a person likes more than one possible option it means he has poor decision making abilities? Come on, now.

[Roderick]

The biggest advantage I can think of to paying any coach a bale of bucks is that the players know this and realize that the manager has power and will be there longterm. So they will more likely "get with the program" or risk not playing as much as they potentially could. Valentine is going to be able to come in and bench a starter if he has to - there is no chance that he will get fired. The club has an investment in Valentine, that they can't trade away (unlike a player).

[RockCoCougars]

Just give him the money, and get on with it. Where there's smoke there's fire, and despite the quotes from yesterday, my guess is this thing is pretty far along. Because nothing is signed yet, neither side is going to make any strong statements to the media. Who cares if Valentine is in it partially for the money? Everything is about money, and most of us wouldn't be toiling at our jobs if we were making little or nothing. Right now he has a cushy, well paying job basically in his hometown. I'm sure that he makes great money to show up in the studio on a part-time basis. If you were looking for a job, would you act serious about it around your current employer until the 'ink was dry'? I wouldn't. I really don't think that he's the type of guy to take a job for the money and then phone it in. I highly doubt that you would see him leaning against a pole half asleep a la Macha, he's too competitive.

[rluzinski]

If a team is willing to spend about $4 mil per win in free agency, they must think managers have little to offer the team and/or they are all roughly the same in talent.

 

A team could think a manager is worth two wins, but there's no reason to pay the manager $8M/year if the market for a manager isn't more than $3.5M/year.

 

Wouldn't a discrepency like that break a bunch of free market assumptions? Are you suggesting collusion or something?