The Brewers' Next Manager; Latest -- Valentine may have inside track to the job; Cora, Melvin, Roenicke also finalists

[Invader3K]

Further comments from Bill Scott via MSNBC:

 

"A coach inside the Brewers organization told us this morning that Valentine and the Brewers are, at least, agreeing in principle," said Bill Scott of the Wisconsin Radio Network to Newsradio 620 WTMJ. Scott is 620WTMJ's "Packers Insider."

 

"The dollars are apparently close, and I'm told he wants $10 million over three years."

[sbrylski]

That's the thing with Valentine...it just seems like he's not motivated to be here, just kind of "ho-hum maybe if you pay me enough"

Though the $10MM asking price now seems to be bogus, I don't understand why this is necessarily an indication of the sentiment above. Valentine, like anyone else, is going to want what he can get, whether he wants the job or not.

 

If you were offered the best job you could imagine being offered, would you just say "pay me whatever"? I doubt it. You'd still negotiate. If you have leverage, you would use it.

[Invader3K]

Good points, sbrylski. I guess I don't see why paying an MLB manager $3 million or so a season is really that big a deal in 2010. Attanasio has shown he's willing to spend extra to get a high impact piece in the past, so I don't think such a salary would really hamstring the team like some on here insinuate.

[And That]

Hey, if overpaying Valentine by $2 mil only means Melvin can't afford "Solidifying Veteran Reliever" for the next 3 years, I'm all for it. Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

[logan82]

Good points, sbrylski. I guess I don't see why paying an MLB manager $3 million or so a season is really that big a deal in 2010. Attanasio has shown he's willing to spend extra to get a high impact piece in the past, so I don't think such a salary would really hamstring the team like some on here insinuate.

That's the whole problem though. How much impact does a manager actually have? Since they all manage pretty much the same, $3m would have little to no impact when that money gets poured into the managing position.

[Invader3K]

That's the whole problem though. How much impact does a manager actually have? Since they all manage pretty much the same, $3m would have little to no impact when that money gets poured into the managing position.

I agree that it wouldn't have as much impact on the field. I do think it would have a pretty big impact with the fan base and national media, however.

[logan82]

Yeah the masses are fickle.

This just reeks of a publicity stunt as opposed to being a move to actually improve the team.

[hawing]

That's the thing with Valentine...it just seems like he's not motivated to be here, just kind of "ho-hum maybe if you pay me enough"

Yeah. Though we obviously aren't privy to the whole story, I detect kind of a Jim Edmonds-esque vibe - though with Diego it was arguably more "if you play me enough" than "if you pay me enough."

 

Plus even if the negotiations are close, aren't teams supposed to hold off on confirming these types of moves during the World Series? Though maybe Valentine's way is to disregard that kind of nicety. And we know the Brewers are just not classy anyway.

[Invader3K]

My guess is they could announce it on Friday (which is a travel day for the World Series teams). I would guess the commissioner's office would give them permission to make the announcement that day (though that's just speculation on my part).

Here's the latest from Haudricourt on Twitter:

Brewers GM Doug Melvin just said, through PR man Mike Vassallo, that there is no agreement in principle with Bobby Valentine to be manager.

[hurricanecrush]

Brewers GM Doug Melvin just said, through PR man Mike Vassallo, that there is no agreement in principle with Bobby Valentine to be manager.

Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist but does that mean there is an actual agreement? Seems like Melvin was very specific and didn't flat out deny that talks were going on or that they had progressed past the "principle" stage.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Anyway, my spidey sense says that this report isn't on the mark.

 

Good call Toby. I kind of had that sense too, for no good reason other than it just seemed random, came out of nowhere, and is about a week or so early given the state of the WS.

 

 

It's Mark A's money, not mine.

 

Like logan said, it's extremely unlikely that money is coming out of Attanasio's pocket. And if you've bought any tickets, merchandise, etc. from the Brewers, then yeah it kinda is/was (very partially) your money.

 

I share AndThat's concern about a gigantic manager salary weakening other, more important, aspects of the organization. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[thebruce44]

Brewcrewin07[/b]]

rluzinski[/b]]Bobby V would really be a Mark A "big name" type signing. If he get's anything close to $10 mil I would be disgusted. I guess it's the cheapest way to convince fans that you are "committed to winning". He'll give good quotes, though!

Comments likethis by fans have always driven me absolutely crazy. Why do the fans care how much a player or a manager or coach might get paid?? Or make comments like "he's not worth that much". IT'S NOT YOUR MONEY!! So who cares?? I have always been one to believe you do whatever it takes financially to help your team succeed. If it means paying a manager 3-4 million a year, so be it. It's Mark A's money, not mine.

 

Right, Mark and the other owners just covered the $90 mil payroll out of pocket this year. It was sure nice of them to build that stadium to play in too. Sorry if that drives you absolutely crazy.

[DatHoser]

That's the whole problem though. How much impact does a manager actually have? Since they all manage pretty much the same, $3m would have little to no impact when that money gets poured into the managing position.

I agree that it wouldn't have as much impact on the field. I do think it would have a pretty big impact with the fan base and national media, however.

And maybe a free agent or two that are worth something.

 

Plus, ya gotta admit that Valentine in one dugout with LaRussa across the diamond in the other would have some good entertainment value.

[PKBadger]

$3 million is a little more than I'd want to spend, but I don't find it to be outlandish. Dusty is making $3.5 mil to manage the Reds, Piniella $3.5 mil, TLR was at $2.8 mil through 2009 (couldn't find an updated number). The Cards and Reds had comparable team payrolls to the Brewers. Valentine has managed in a World Series and frankly has been a hot commodity since he returned from Japan.

 

MLB managers seem underpaid to me, compared to their contemporaries in the NFL and NBA.

[sbrylski]

$3 million is a little more than I'd want to spend, but I don't find it to be outlandish. Dusty is making $3.5 mil to manage the Reds, Piniella $3.5 mil, TLR was at $2.8 mil through 2009 (couldn't find an updated number). The Cards and Reds had comparable team payrolls to the Brewers. Valentine has managed in a World Series and frankly has been a hot commodity since he returned from Japan.

 

MLB managers seem underpaid to me, compared to their contemporaries in the NFL and NBA.

Good info. Cot's only has a managers list updated since 2007, but Cox is another that was earning $3MM. So $10MM over 3 years is actually exactly what to expect, at least for an opening number from his side of the table.

[rluzinski]

$3 million is a little more than I'd want to spend, but I don't find it to be outlandish. Dusty is making $3.5 mil to manage the Reds, Piniella $3.5 mil, TLR was at $2.8 mil through 2009 (couldn't find an updated number). The Cards and Reds had comparable team payrolls to the Brewers. Valentine has managed in a World Series and frankly has been a hot commodity since he returned from Japan.

 

MLB managers seem underpaid to me, compared to their contemporaries in the NFL and NBA.

Coaches/managers are paid what their employers think they are worth. Professional baseball managers are simply worth less in general. If a team is willing to spend about $4 mil per win in free agency, they must think managers have little to offer the team and/or they are all roughly the same in talent.

I find it hard to believe that a guy who hasn't even managed in the majors for years is still one of the most valuable managers in the world. This is also a guy who has been fired 4 times already. And yes, it is all but guaranteed that the Brewers will be the 5th professional team to fire him. It seems like, when you take a step back, it's all just a silly PR game.

[CheezWizHed]

I just changed my vote. I want Joey Cora!

 

Sandberg coaching the White Sox would be so awesome! The Cubs would have to hate that.

[Patrick425]

Brewcrewin07[/b]]

rluzinski[/b]]Bobby V would really be a Mark A "big name" type signing. If he get's anything close to $10 mil I would be disgusted. I guess it's the cheapest way to convince fans that you are "committed to winning". He'll give good quotes, though!

Comments likethis by fans have always driven me absolutely crazy. Why do the fans care how much a player or a manager or coach might get paid?? Or make comments like "he's not worth that much". IT'S NOT YOUR MONEY!! So who cares?? I have always been one to believe you do whatever it takes financially to help your team succeed. If it means paying a manager 3-4 million a year, so be it. It's Mark A's money, not mine.

I'm not sure why this drives you crazy. You do understand that they don't have an infinite amount of money to spend, right? As mentioned, the more they spend on a manager, the less they can spend on payroll. Same with Fielder if it takes $20+ million per year to sign him, that is likely about 25% of their total payroll, leaving less to spend on other needs, namely pitching. This is why fans care how much is spent on players.

 

Also, indirectly, it is our money. Also, as mentioned, Mark A. is not paying for these things out of his pocket. It comes from revenues, including ticket sales.

 

 

[MNBrew]

I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere at length, but I don't remember seeing it in my many visits as this thread has grown:

 

Wasn't there some overlap in Texas between Melvin & Valentine?

 

True or not, I don't have an opinion on this. But it would explain an elevated trust level and higher interest in Valentine on Melvin's part.

 

Regarding all the salary-related questions, I just don't care so long as they make the right decision and for the right reasons.

[1992casey]

Valentine's tenure with the Rangers ended in 1992. Melvin's tenure began in 1994.

[dlk9s]

B. Valentine for manager? I can dig it:

 

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7448/1256419933.gif

[olliegjw]

I agree with most that a manager's in-game decisions have little effect on a team's record. However, I think their most important job is clubhouse leader. They need to manage all of the egos while keeping respect from those players. That was my biggest problem with Macha. He did not stick up for his players, so they did not play all-out for him. If a manager loses a clubhouse, which I believe Macha did, it can cost a team much more than 2 or 3 games.

[RockCoCougars]

Bobby V would really be a Mark A "big name" type signing. If he get's anything close to $10 mil I would be disgusted. I guess it's the cheapest way to convince fans that you are "committed to winning". He'll give good quotes, though!

I'd rather give Valentine $3 million something a year than give it to stiffs like David Riske or LaTroy Hawkins. Melvin shouldn't have to waste any money on the bullpen this year, maybe invite a couple of vets to spring training or pick up someone on a cheap million dollar one year deal. Any other manager would get in the million dollar range anyway- it's Attanasio's money, so what's an extra $2 million? Who would you rather have, Valentine or Macha and Zaun or Counsell? As someone else mentioned how Girardi is asking for less after the division titles and what not, you have to consider the fact that with that pitching staff, you or I could have probably done just as well.

 

 

[GAME05]

it's amazing to remember all the vitriol that Yost and Macha got during their tenures, but when we're about to hire a new guy the feeling is "oh, who the particular manager is doesn't really matter." well if that's the case, then let me manage. i would do it for $12.50 an hour--that's way less than $3.3M/year. shouldn't the attitude be reverse of this, that it matters who we hire, but then we can accept them once they arrive?

 

i'm not too concerned with whatever money the new manager gets. sure an extra $1M takes something out of the team's operating budget, but at the same time i don't think Melvin or Attanasio have ever said "Boy, we really want this guy, but it's just $1M more than we have right now." it's also really nitpicky to think that success or failure is going to come down to whether we spent that $1M extra or not, and not overall drafting/FA/waiver philosophies.

 

I agree with most that a manager's in-game decisions have little effect on a team's record. However, I think their most important job is clubhouse leader.

that's why Ned Yost was a good manager, and i'm only being 20% sarcastic. ok, 28%.

[logan82]

They asked Wolf to defer $4m so they could sign another player. To me that makes it seem like the budget is pretty tight.

 

I'd rather give Valentine $3 million something a year than give it to stiffs like David Riske or LaTroy Hawkins.

 

Jim Edmonds, Craig Counsell, and Jpe Inglett. Let's not forget that every time $3m gets spent it doesn't go to bad players. If we had and extra $3m last year maybe we could have paid a $8m/year player instead of a $5m/year guy.