The Brewers' Next Manager; Latest -- Valentine may have inside track to the job; Cora, Melvin, Roenicke also finalists

[MarquesJohnson2000]

Randolph and Sveum are not being considered because Doug wants to go outside the organization.

 

I can't argue with that. If Randolph had the magic answers, why was he hiding them from Ken?

[patrickgpe]

another darkhorse candidate that isn't being mentioned is Lloyd McClendon, he has been the only manager in a while to even get to 70 wins with the Pirates and has done a good job as hitting coach of the tigers.

[And That]

A few days after Valentine said "no" to the Marlins, the Mariners say "no" to Valentine. If the Brewers are interested, the list of openings for Valentine is certainly shortening.

[JoeHova]

Bob Melvin would just be depressing.

[bjkrautk]

Question I hate asking: is Cora a 'diversity' interview?

 

Don't get me wrong; I actually liked Joey Cora as a player. (His #2 similarity score on Baseballreference.com -- Fernando Vina.) I just find it difficult to believe that Doug Melvin could say this:

 

"The first criteria would be is he a winning manager? It's going to be hard to match Ken's (previous) record, but other things will come into play. Is the person going to be someone that's aggressive with our ball club? The running game, do we want that kind of individual? Do I want someone that's only managed or coached in the American League? That could come into play.

 

"You can put about five things down, criteria that could eliminate a lot of people. We want to be open-minded to it. The main thing is I'd like to get someone with experience that has managed before. But that's not necessarily the case. If the right guy came along that hadn't managed before and I think he's an up-and-comer and I think he fits our style of ball club, that could come into play."

 

...and then hire someone without MLB managing experience, who has not been a player or coach in the National League since 1990. I wouldn't have any problem with the decision, as he is an up-and-comer, and could be the right guy; I just don't know how well he fits the blueprint of this team.

 

The one thing in his favor, is that he demonstrated solid plate discipline as a player (his K:BB ratio is right around 1:1, and his OBP was significantly higher than his BA). I think the running game is a wash based on Cora as a player (topped out at 20 steals in a season, stole successfully just under 2/3rds of the time). When I look at the list of candidates in contention, and the criteria for the hire, it begs the question.

[RockCoCougars]

Question I hate asking: is Cora a 'diversity' interview?

Well, I believe that the Brewers are required to conduct at least one interview with a minority candidate. That said, I don't think Cora should be dismissed as the 'token' candidate. From all I've read on him, he's pretty intriguing to me. He doesn't fit Melvin's qualifications, but not many of the realistic candidates do. For example, in my view, Bob Melvin is not a 'winner' in any sense of the word. Cora is number two on my list next to Valentine. Though it seems that quite a few first time managers step in and have pretty much immediate success, I'm a little bit leery about hiring a new first time guy due to the dynamics on this team. However, I don't want a retread in the vein of Wedge, Melvin, Hurdle, Brenly or the like even though those guys have 'playoff experience'. I'm also a skeptic when it comes to plucking first time guys from 'winning programs' as is all the rage in the NFL. For example, Ron Roenicke may be an expert on the 'Angel way', but does that translate into success with this group of guys? I'd say that's a question mark at best. I think that personality is the most important aspect of this hire, and both Valentine and Cora seem to have the feisty, aggressive, energetic persona that I feel these players need.

[crewcrazy]

Bobby Valentine has had "conversations" with the Brewers, but still no formal interview according to the Sirius radio transcript posted by Tom Haudricourt. It doesn't even sound like Valentine is sure he wants to manage.

 

Russo: “Do you have it in your gut, does Bobby V. have the passion in his soul to go out there and manage another big league ball club before you retire, yes or no?”

 

Valentine: “Um, it’s probably there but it’s not this burning desire. It needs to be, you know, cultivated. It needs to come out to, you know, meet the right people that kind of bring it out to say, ‘Hey, listen, this is the group that we gotta go to battle with.’”

[logan82]

I hope Valentine sticks with his day job.

[RockCoCougars]

Bobby Valentine has had "conversations" with the Brewers, but still no formal interview according to the Sirius radio transcript posted by Tom Haudricourt. It doesn't even sound like Valentine is sure he wants to manage.

 

Russo: “Do you have it in your gut, does Bobby V. have the passion in his soul to go out there and manage another big league ball club before you retire, yes or no?”

 

Valentine: “Um, it’s probably there but it’s not this burning desire. It needs to be, you know, cultivated. It needs to come out to, you know, meet the right people that kind of bring it out to say, ‘Hey, listen, this is the group that we gotta go to battle with.

From the transcript, it sounds like they are going to continue talking, which I would take as a good thing. If Valentine truly wasn't interested in the job, it probably would have been one and done. The 'might' comment probably stems from the fact that nothing has been formalized yet. I take the burning desire thing with a grain of salt as well because it's not like Valentine is sitting at home doing nothing, is a base coach or a minor league managing job- he has what I'm assuming is a fairly lucrative job right in his backyard with ESPN. I'm sure that his current gig pays much more 'per hour' than any managerial job would, with much less stress.

 

Come on Mark, pretend like Valentine is Suppan and wine and dine him a little. Money shouldn't be an issue, use the money that Doug would waste on a throwaway player, and make him one of the highest paid managers in baseball. The last thing this fanbase needs is a boring, vanilla retread like Bob Melvin. On that note, does anyone else get the feeling that Hardicourt is lobbbying pretty hard for Bob Melvin?

[Mr QL]

Valentine sure sounds uninspiring.

[jerichoholicninja]

Valentine sure sounds uninspiring.

Macha was nothing but uninspiring.

[Sage]

Valentine sure sounds uninspiring.

Uninspiring? Anything but.

People who have a beef with Bobby V have used his record as a problem (barely over .500 and having not won a division in his time), but let's think about it. What did Ken Macha have? He was well over .500 and had won 2 divisions in 4 years. How did that hire work out for us? So, I don't think record or experience is really the most important thing when hiring a manager. The most important thing, is personality. How will this manager connect with the clubhouse, how will he handle his players? Next on the list (more like 1A instead of 2) is decision-making. How will this manager handle his pitching staff (when will he go to the bullpen, pitch counts, etc), how will he handle pinch-hitters, pinch-runners, etc? How will he handle the running game? Experience/record is/are actually the last thing that I personally would look for in this scenario.

Good news everybody! We can forget about the possibility of Eric Wedge, as the Mariners hired him! Everyone rejoice!

[Mr QL]

I was talking about his desire to manage. He just doesn't sound like his heart is in it.

[RockCoCougars]

I was talking about his desire to manage. He just doesn't sound like his heart is in it.

That could partially be due to the fact that he has the cushy ESPN gig. He could be desperate to manage and just feigning apathy, using the TV job to leverage the most earnings possible out of whatever job he takes. On the other hand, he could be truly apathetic towards managing and is just interviewing for jobs to get more money out of ESPN. Because he was actually in discussions with the trainwreck that is the Florida Marlins, I would guess that the former is the case- but he's in a position where he doesn't necessarily have to manage. Sitting in a TV studio for a few hours 4-5 a few nights a week is a lot easier than the 162 game grind. My guess is that if Attanasio wanted him and paid him well, he would come. Considering the team is coming off a bad season and probably cutting a little payroll while possibly trading the team's most popular player this winter, hiring Valentine would be a relatively cheap PR coup for the team. It makes sense on a lot of levels. The two big issues that I see are how well the egos of Attanasio and Valentine mesh, and how comfortable Melvin would feel working with a strong personality like Valentine.

[colbyjack]

Yeah, if Valentine has to "cultivate" an interest to manage again, no thanks. It sounds as though he needs his butt kissed and a big chunk of change to pull him out of his cushy job with ESPN.

 

I'm not sure why so many people think he's the best candidate for the job. I'm not necessarily saying he's not, but why hasn't he had a job in the big-leagues for so long? I know he was over in Japan, but again, if he was such a good manager, why hasn't he been managing for successful teams at the highest level for the past several years?

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, if Valentine has to "cultivate" an interest to manage again, no thanks. It sounds as though he needs his butt kissed and a big chunk of change to pull him out of his cushy job with ESPN.

 

I took his comments more to mean he'd only go back to manage if he were handed the keys to a luxury car like the Yankees.

[BrewCrewForever]

If they get Valentine, fine I'm okay with it. But I still think I would prefer a younger "up and coming" type Manager. Cora, Roenicke, Wallach or Martinez would all be fine.

[colbyjack]

I took his comments more to mean he'd only go back to manage if he were handed the keys to a luxury car like the Yankees.

 

I got that vibe as well. My point was that if he came to a non-luxury car situation he likely would have to be wined and dined appropriately to be convinced. And I don't know if I could be convinced as to why he would be worth that. I'm just hoping Melvin finds that diamond in the rough like he did with Mike Maddux as pitching coach.

[owbc]

Valentine's ego is too big for Milwaukee.

[RockCoCougars]

Yeah, if Valentine has to "cultivate" an interest to manage again, no thanks. It sounds as though he needs his butt kissed and a big chunk of change to pull him out of his cushy job with ESPN.

 

I took his comments more to mean he'd only go back to manage if he were handed the keys to a luxury car like the Yankees.

I'm not so sure. My guess is that he would have taken the Seattle job had it been offered. Seattle is far from a luxury car- sure you have the King and an aging Ichiro to go with a couple of stud prospects, but outside of that the cupboard looks pretty bare to me.

 

I think right now, both sides are feeling things out as to how the egos would fit together. At the same time, I'm wondering if perhaps Valentine is holding out hope that the Mets may bring him back. I'm pretty convinced that he wants to manage again, and the Brewers have a lot more talent than most teams looking for a manager. Obviously Valentine isn't going to Pittsubrgh, but I would have to think that the Brewers job has to be fairly attractive.

[MNBrew]

If they get Valentine, fine I'm okay with it. But I still think I would prefer a younger "up and coming" type Manager. Cora, Roenicke, Wallach or Martinez would all be fine.

Covering the last 25 years, 4 of the Brewers' last 6 non-interim managerial hires have been the "up and coming" types: Trebelhorn, Garner, Lopes, & Yost. Only Royster (who was conveniently around but never sought before or since) and Macha weren't. Lopes especially was seen as the next "hot prospect" for a couple years, much like Willie Randolph before the Mets hired him.

 

I think part of the allure of the "up and comers" is that they haven't really given anyone reason to doubt them, whereas anyone who's been fired has. There's more allure, more hope, to someone who hasn't disproven himself. It's actually much like the allure of strong young prospects when they actually get MLB playing time: some do well & some totally bomb. And really, with "retreads" you can get the exact same thing.

 

Valentine is intriguing. But I'm not that interested. There's a difference between being extremely motivated but being picky about finding the spot that's the right fit vs. finding a spot that helps spark an interest that doesn't presently exist. With Valentine, part of the allure is hiring a dynamic personality. In that sense, he's the anti-Macha. But I don't feel that's the right reason to be interested. Valentine is such a self-promoter, and it seems like he'd still be more into being Bobby Valentine than he would be being the Brewers' manager. . . . . That's partly why I really like Yost when he was hired: Most of the other candidates wanted a managerial job, whereas Yost REALLY wanted to manage the Brewers.

 

I like Bob Melvin. I also wished they'd never let Don Baylor go years ago, so he still interests me. And Willie Randolph still seems to have much about him that would fit this position well (I must be missing something). Clint Hurdle doesn't do as much for me. Maybe that's because of how the Rockies really took off after he got fired. Of the "up and comers," I'm not sure I want any of those guys. Continually going for those guys is starting to feel like trying to catch lightning in a managerial bottle, and Melvin has a better track record doing that with players.

 

Sorry not to have any inspired conclusions other than not wanting Valentine -- just chipping in a variety of thoughts.

[logan82]

Seattle is a much much better job than Milwaukee. They actually have a good amount of money they can spend along with a good amount of young talent.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Seattle is a much much better job than Milwaukee. They actually have a good amount of money they can spend along with a good amount of young talent.

And the Brewers don't have a good amount of money they can spend and a good amount of young talent?

[logan82]

We probably have better young talent but we don't have the resources of Seattle.

[MNBrew]

My good friend who's lived his whole life in Seattle hardly has the same rosy view of the Mariners' situation. I think yours amounts to a "grass is greener" view. They've got some strong prospects. But I'd take our overall situation (current MLB talent & good prospects coming) ahead of theirs.

 

They may have wealth working for them, but their payroll's not any more generous than the Brewers' is -- or at least beyond Felix & Ichiro, they're not paying any stars (though they're paying Figgins as if he were one).