The Brewers' Next Manager; Latest -- Valentine may have inside track to the job; Cora, Melvin, Roenicke also finalists

[kramnoj]

I don't see how games 1 and 2 matter all that much since there was an off day after game 2.

 

All that much? Maybe not, but it has to be part of the decision making process.

 

What in Suppan's 2008 season gave us any indication that he would be decent?

 

The team had a winning record in his starts. Suppan was awful in September, but that's a small sample size. He could have been unlucky, or he might have been banged up, I don't know.

 

I don't think starting Suppan was brilliant, but I don't think it's nearly as clear cut as many make it out to be.

[trwi7]

Here's my problem. Who's better, Suppan or Gallardo? I think the answer is pretty obvious there. Now if Gallardo wasn't available, fine, go with Suppan but he pitched in the game so he obviously was. Now if you need Suppan out of the bullpen, use him later.

[logan82]

The team had a winning record in his starts

 

and the team had a winning record during Looper starts. Pitchers only have limited control over winning games. That argument is at best weak.

[thebruce44]

kramnoj[/b]]At the end of 2008, who would you have rather had as the leadoff hitter, Weeks or Cameron?

 

I think relying on small sample sizes like September OPS is useless, so based on 2008 and years before, I think Cameron is going to add more contribution with the bat than Weeks in the end of 2008. I don't think the 11 points of OBP is worth more than the 69 points of OPS. Weeks in 2008 was a below average hitter.

I understand the need to throw up the obligatory "small sample size" argument, as I even included it in my post. However, I remember Cam slumping hard as the team fell out of contention, and not just suffering from a lot of hard hit balls right at defenders. I love stats, but at some point you have to overrule with common sense. Weeks was tearing it up. Cam wasn't.

 

If you have one guy who is hot, and another who is slumping, you don't typically put the slumping guy at the top of the order in front of your best hitters. Sure, the slumping player is likely to break out of his funk, but why wait for him to do that in a key position during key games.

 

Given all of the information available to Dale, I think he made a poor choice and did it for the wrong reasons. If you really think he made the right one, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

[kramnoj]

Pitchers only have limited control over winning games. That argument is at best weak.

 

Yes, it's weak. It's also weak to look at a months worth of games and think that it's going to be meaningful. I could have gone into more detail highlighting the games where Suppan didn't allow a run, but that wouldn't have convinced anybody.

 

Given all of the information available to Dale, I think he made a poor choice and did it for the wrong reasons

 

Your position on this was that it was Cameron's OBP that made it a poor choice, and then didn't give Cameron credit for his power that he provides, which made him a better hitter than Weeks.

 

If you think he made a poor choice, you are welcome to your opinion, but you haven't provided sufficient evidence to say that Sveum makes poor tactical decisions.

[thebruce44]

kramnoj[/b]]What in Suppan's 2008 season gave us any indication that he would be decent?

 

The team had a winning record in his starts.

Very surprised to see you make this argument.

[trwi7]

Yes, it's weak. It's also weak to look at a months worth of games and think that it's going to be meaningful.

Fine. His ERA was 4.5 through August, which is mediocre and pushing 5 at the end of the season, which is bad. As long as Gallardo was available, Suppan was a terrible choice to start game 4.

[logan82]

Yes, it's weak. It's also weak to look at a months worth of games and think that it's going to be meaningful.

Fine. His ERA was 4.5 through August, which is mediocre and pushing 5 at the end of the season, which is bad. As long as Gallardo was available, Suppan was a terrible choice to start game 4.

I just looked it up and the following pitchers would have been worse choices to start. Villanueva, Riske, Taveras, Turnbow and Gagne. Those are the only guys with a worse ERA than Suppan. Going with FIP narrows the field to Gagne and Turnbow. Suppan was a crap pitcher by the end of the 2008 season any way you split it.

[thebruce44]

logan3825[/b]]

trwi7[/b]]

kramnoj[/b]]Yes, it's weak. It's also weak to look at a months worth of games and think that it's going to be meaningful.

Fine. His ERA was 4.5 through August, which is mediocre and pushing 5 at the end of the season, which is bad. As long as Gallardo was available, Suppan was a terrible choice to start game 4.

I just looked it up and the following pitchers would have been worse choices to start. Villanueva, Riske, Taveras, Turnbow and Gagne. Those are the only guys with a worse ERA than Suppan. Going with FIP narrows the field to Gagne and Turnbow. Suppan was a crap pitcher by the end of the 2008 season any way you split it.

Kramnoj,

 

There's just really no way to manupulate the stats to say that Dale made the right choice in this situation either.

 

Want to avoid small samples? Soup's 08 numbers were aweful. ERA 4.96, FIP 5.51.

 

His numbers against Philly? From the JS just before that game 4 start:

 

Suppan smiled wryly when a reporter asked if he had forgotten that he had been roughed up by the Phillies in his last start against them on Sept. 14, in the nightcap of a split doubleheader at Citizens Bank Park. He was tagged for eight hits and six runs in 3 2/3 innings as Philadelphia finished a four-game sweep that led to manager Ned Yost being fired...It wasn't the first time the Phillies had gotten to Suppan. In five outings over the past three seasons, he went 0-4 against them with a 6.93 ERA. Because Suppan pitches to contact and is prone to giving up home runs (30 in 177 2/3 innings in '08), a Philadelphia lineup loaded with left-handed pop is a tough match-up for him.

Is that meaningful enough yet?

[hawing]

I'm not looking to be a pill, but could we use the rest of this thread for speculation on the next manager, instead of a referendum on Sveum's small sample of 2008?

[dlk9s]

Bottom line, it was either a crappy veteran or a good pitcher who had barely pitched in the majors and had only really had a cameo in 2008. Either one could have pitched well, either one could have failed.

 

And I agree with hawing. This thread has officially been derailed.

[RockCoCougars]

While I think Sveum should be the guy for 2011 at least (considering if you have another season like 2010, you will have a new GM to hire 'their guy' as manager), I don't want him to be a puppet for management. He has to be allowed to make his own choices. As I said above, my suspicions are that starting Suppan in Game 4 was 'strongly suggested' by the suits. When the team announced that he would take the mound for that game, everyone groaned because the move just didn't make sense. Suppan had basically been throwing batting practice since May (though I will give him some credit for gutting out the Friday Cubs game- as nervewracking as it was to watch). Sveum probably wanted the full time job so badly that he had to toe the line, but once the lead off home run was hit, the season was effectively over.

[Sage]

Okay, if you guys want to complain about Sveum's decisions from over 2 years ago, you should probably make a new thread for it.

 

I don't have a link at the moment, but I've heard that both Ken Macha and Dale Sveum have interviewed with the Pirates about their managerial opening. Interesting...

 

I would not really have a problem with any candidate that has been rumored (with the exceptions of Cecil Cooper and Bob Brenly), but I really wish Doug Melvin would hurry up and get some interviews under way. You can't hire a new manager without conducting an interview (in this specific case).

[And That]

In what is the beginning of an impending threat to subvert and deflect proper criticism of either individual, Bob Melvin will be interviewing with Doug next week.

 

Who will register firebothmelvins.com or dmsbm.com first?

 

The same link to that Haudricourt story mentions that DM has already interviewed four guys, one of whom was probably Angels bench coach Ron Roenicke.

[And That]

More new information, this from Ken Rosenthal:

Sources: #Brewers have interviewed Tim Wallach, Eric Wedge. Team plans to talk to about 10 in all for mgr's job. Bob Melvin on list.

 

It was previously reported that Wallach accepted a new deal with the Dodgers, which is true, but I've also read that Wallach could get out of the deal if he's offered a manager's job.

[RockCoCougars]

I would not really have a problem with any candidate that has been rumored (with the exceptions of Cecil Cooper and Bob Brenly), but I really wish Doug Melvin would hurry up and get some interviews under way. You can't hire a new manager without conducting an interview (in this specific case).

I'm starting to get a sinking feeling that Melvin is waiting on Clint Hurdle. Experienced...check. N.L. experience....check. A 'winner'...well he did go to a World Series in between a bunch of 4th and 5th place finishes- so check, I guess. Relates well to players.....according to reports, he related very well with a 'faction' of the team in Colorado, so I'm unsure. Texas Rangers experience....bonus points.

 

As for Bob Melvin, I don't know why he always seems to be the candidate de jour in Milwaukee. He may be a good 'baseball mind', but that hasn't translated into results. Should the Brewers really be the team to give the guy a third chance in seven years? I would say no.

 

I just saw the name Eric Wedge. Please God no!

[hawing]

One quote from Bob Melvin, in the link posted by And That, caught my eye (emphasis added by me):

 

"I just love going to Miller Park because of the atmosphere there. The

fans have been so supportive and the place has a buzz when you go there

that's very noticeable. And it's been like that since the ballpark

opened. When you consider the market size, it's incredible."

I know this is nitpicking, but I'm guessing Bob Melvin didn't stop by MP during the 2003 season or so. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Also nitpicking but important to me as a moderator: If Bob Melvin is selected, he'd better be good enough to overshadow the inconvenience we and all Brewers fan sites and media sources will absorb as the result of having two managerial types with the same last name. I guess we can call them Doug and Bob, since Sharpie is all but off the roster for 2011, and as long as the Brewers don't acquire a player named Bob.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

If the Brewers are going to interview 10 candidates then they Doug really doesn't know who he is going to hire.

[bacon06]

If the Brewers are going to interview 10 candidates then they Doug really doesn't know who he is going to hire.

If Doug knows who he's going to hire, why even interview anyone and just hire that guy?

[pitchleague]

I'll be honest, but none of those names really scare me and/or make me scream, "NOOOOOOOO!"

 

At least he's looking at a bunch of guys and trying to find THE right guy for this job.

 

Plus, Doug's not just sitting there like many people think he is.

[brewmann04]

Wedge is reported to go to the Pirates.I do believe he wants to see if Hurdle is looking into comming back into baseball.

[RockCoCougars]

Wedge is reported to go to the Pirates.I do believe he wants to see if Hurdle is looking into comming back into baseball.

I hope that the Pirates swoop Wedge up. Just the thought of him as Brewers manager makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Hurdle is back in baseball. He's the Rangers hitting coach. I don't see him as a solid candidate, but I'm getting increasingly concerned that Doug Melvin does. Joey Cora is starting to sound better and better to me as more names come out.

[danzig6767]

....the conventional wisdom is that you want to hire a manager who's on his 2nd MLB manager opportunity.....for example Charlie Manuel was a bozo for the Indians before becoming the Phillies manager ....another example is Terry Francona who's 2nd job was with the Red Sox after failing in his 1st try as a MLB manager

 

thoughts?

I think talent matters much more than the manager and we're lacking it right now.

Yea, Macha was able to look smart and win a lot of games with a rotation headed by Mulder/Zito/Hudson along with having 4th starter like Harden most of those years, Haren was there in 2006. Even Davey Lopes could have won a lot of games with starting pitching like that.

 

Plus, for all the talk of the clubhouse being less happy under Macha, winning tends to alleviate personality clashes, at least to a degree. It's when teams are out of contention for the playoffs that often personality conflicts between players/manager tend to fester and get worse.

 

The reason most managers are generally more successful in their second

job is because GM's usually don't hire rookie managers for good teams.

Also if you have some managing experience you have more managing

options. The whole process is self fulfilling.

It can be to the point where a manager gets fired at the end of a season by one team, then a few weeks later another team hires the same guy. Hell, i heard on the radio that the Pirates either intend to interview Macha or that they already have.

[AJAY]

THANK GOD ALMIGHTY . . . . . My dreams have come true.

 

 

NY Times is reporting that the Brewers have interest in Bobby Valentine. He is my first and only choice.

 

 

http://bats.blogs.nytimes...wanted-man/?ref=baseball

[RockCoCougars]

THANK GOD ALMIGHTY . . . . . My dreams have come true.

 

 

NY Times is reporting that the Brewers have interest in Bobby Valentine. He is my first and only choice.

 

 

http://bats.blogs.nytimes...wanted-man/?ref=baseball

Hopefully this is true. Come on Mark, let's get this done, money shouldn't be an issue.