Good bye Mo Williams? (Latest: signed)

[tigerbrew]

I think Mo is just holding out to squeeze more money from the Bucks. I really hope the Bucks call his bluff and don't increase their offer one iota.

 

This game Mo and his agent are playing on the Bucks is disgusting.

[trwi7]

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This game Mo and his agent are playing on the Bucks is disgusting.

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Why? You're telling me that you wouldn't at least try to get more money out of a team if you could?

[don1481]

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He is one of the most completely worthless players left in the league.

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Yes, which should tell you exactly what I think of Mo Williams as a player.

 

At least Francis has done somewhat worthwhile stuff in the past. Plus (in theory) we could get him for a 1 year (which was the point I was trying to make) and make a run for a FA in 08. Or, draft a PG that's competent.

[tigerbrew]

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Why? You're telling me that you wouldn't at least try to get more money out of a team if you could?

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There's no other interested teams that can compete with the Bucks offer so he decides to play this lying game on the Bucks to con them. So it is disgusting to me.

 

It would not be disgusting, if he actually signs up on Heat's lower offer since he repeatedly said he's so keen to play for the Heat.

[BillScottCanRake]

I think it's legitimate to say "Milwaukee, I'll play for you, but it will be at a higher price than I'd play for Miami".

 

Lots of people who are offered a job will use that offer to leverage more money from their current employees. The only difference with an NBA player doing it is the number of digits in their check is higher.

[dadofandrew]

Aren't the Bucks offering him the max? And yes, Mo has every right to do what's best for himself...he's a free agent.

[Barbs4339]

There is no "max" that we can give him. We can even go over the salary cap to resign our own players, although we are significantly below the cap right now.

[dadofandrew]

Thanks Barb, I guess I got confused because Miami is offering "the max" they are allowed to.

[Barbs4339]

That's the nice thing about the NBA as it makes it easier to keep your free agents because you are allowed to go over the cap to re-sign them. Every team has a mid-level exception that they can you can that number changes every year. Since Miami is over the cap, they are relegated to using the mid-level exception so they can only offer him 5.4 million per year.

Mo would be crazy to leave a 5 year 40 million contract on the table to sign with Miami just to play with Wade, coming back from injury and can opt out of his contract in years I believe, and a older, slower Shaq who has maybe one or 2 years left in the tank.

 

Mo can retire at the age of 29 with a crap load of cash. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

[qrk10000]

Yes, which should tell you exactly what I think of Mo Williams as a player.

 

Then I think you really need to sit down and reevaluate Mo Williams. He is far and above a better option than Steve Francis. He is younger, still improving, coming off a solid season, and has been a good clubhouse guy. I am not a fan of his defense and he seems to suffer from nagging injuries form time-to-time, but otherwise he has been a total steal for the Bucks and is certainly our best option at the point. I think it would be extremely foolish to let him walk and cross your fingers that we could land someone in free agency or the draft next year. That is extremely risky and could all but guarantee a losing record this year.

 

I would bring back Steve Blake before I considered Steve Francis. Francis is a constant headcase, never could lead a team, and is not getting any younger. There is a reason that this guy has fallen from stardom so quickly.

 

I don't see how anyone can blame Mo for negotiating with the Bucks either. Miami is a very attractive option and he has every right to consider it. The Bucks have made him a very generous offer but sometimes money is not everything. He could have a chance to play on a potential NBA championship team close to home or play for a team that is still in rebuilding mode. I personally would choose Miami if I were him.

[don1481]

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Then I think you really need to sit down and reevaluate Mo Williams. He is far and above a better option than Steve Francis.

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I've expressed my opinion of Mo Williams on this thread and others and have provided more than sufficient backing data to support my position. My opinion of Mo (in a nutshell: 2-guard/6th man posing as a PG) isn't going to change. If he's the "best" option out there this offseason, the Bucks are best off putting their money towards someone for a one year deal (which is why Francis is rated above on my list for *solely* next year) and then go after a better option the following offseason, either through FA or the draft.

 

If Mo Williams is running the offense come the start of the season, the Bucks are going to be in big, big trouble.

 

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I think it would be extremely foolish to let him walk and cross your fingers that we could land someone in free agency or the draft next year. That is extremely risky and could all but guarantee a losing record this year.

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We may want to "win now," but what would Mo Williams get us versus Francis this season? An 8-seed... maybe? Align our talent under contract for the future and acquire as needed to supplement it.

 

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I don't see how anyone can blame Mo for negotiating with the Bucks either.

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I don't blame Mo at all for it. If Larry's dumb enough to offer Mo mo' money, then Mo's agent has pulled off a move of brilliance.

 

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Francis is a constant headcase, never could lead a team, and is not getting any younger

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Ah, but we're not asking Francis to "lead" a team, are we? We're just wanting him to keep the PG seat warm for a year.

 

Either way, the PG options out there this season are atrocious and Harris would be ill-served offering any of them serious cash.

[dadofandrew]

Mo is an above average PG, meaning he's in the top 15. He isn't big enough to defend versus the other team's shooting guard, so that's not an option. And he's 24, so he should get better.

 

He ain't John Stockton, but he's by far the best available PG on the market right now.

[aracko]

Addition by subtraction.

[don1481]

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He ain't John Stockton, but he's by far the best available PG on the market right now.

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Which shows just how lousy the FA market is this year.

 

Why waste money just to spend money?

 

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Mo is an above average PG, meaning he's in the top 15.

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I'd say top 20. See my list elsewhere in either this thread or the draft thread.

[trwi7]

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Why waste money just to spend money?

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Because it's better than letting an asset like Mo walk for nothing when we could trade him later.

[don1481]

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Because it's better than letting an asset like Mo walk for nothing when we could trade him later.

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I have one hyphenated word in response: sign-and-trade.

 

And now according to JSOnline:

 

6 years, $51 Million. Gross.

[trwi7]

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I have one hyphenated word in response: sign-and-trade.

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Of which you never get full value back. Hooray we could get Jason Williams expiring contract to give fans false hope that we sign a big time free agent next year and a 1st round pick that will be in the 20's. Whoopie!

[dadofandrew]

SEA got a conditional 2nd round pick for the best FA on the market this year.

 

Suffice it to say, I think Mo's worth a lot more than that.

[qrk10000]

I've expressed my opinion of Mo Williams on this thread and others and have provided more than sufficient backing data to support my position.

 

If you are basing it solely on the fact that he was not a traditional point guard, consider this: When Redd went down, Mo was our offense. He had to shoot more because no one else could. I was encouraged by the fact that he still managed to average over 6 assists per game while scoring as much as he did. Also remember, he shot almost 45% from the field, and that is not bad for a point guard. That is better than Baron Davis, Chris Paul, TJ Ford, Gilbert Arenas, Stephon Marbury, Mike Bibby, and Raymond Felton.

 

the Bucks are best off putting their money towards someone for a one year deal (which is why Francis is rated above on my list for *solely* next year) and then go after a better option the following offseason, either through FA or the draft.

 

Take a look at the class. Baron Davis has a player option and Shaun Livingston and Devin Harris have team options (both of which would almost certainly be exercised). Next best player after them is Carlos Arroyo, hardly an upgrade. Free agency will not be an option in 2008.

 

There are a lot of talented freshmen point guards that will be eligible for the draft in 2008, but there is no guarantee that they will want to come out or will even be good enough to in the first place. Plus, drafting a freshman point guard is certainly a project as point guard is one of the hardest positions to transition into in the NBA. Essentially the Bucks could be looking at doing the same thing and hoping someone is available in 2009 then.

 

If Mo Williams is running the offense come the start of the season, the Bucks are going to be in big, big trouble.

 

When Mo went down with an injury last year, the Bucks were 16-18 and still in the thick of things. When he returned, they were 18-26. Statistically, he improved in just about every category and there is no reason to think he cannot do it again this year. He has proven to be a decent rebounder for a point guard and should have more assists in 2007 with a new coach, healthy players around him, and potentially an improved frontcourt if/when Yi signs. He is only 24 too.

 

We may want to "win now," but what would Mo Williams get us versus Francis this season? An 8-seed... maybe? Align our talent under contract for the future and acquire as needed to supplement it.

 

...which is exactly what we would be doing with Mo Williams. This certainly would be a contract to lock up the point guard spot for the future. It will not bankrupt us either. We have a GM that does a terrific job at shedding unwanted salary in the event that we would need extra cap space to sign someone else.

 

I don't blame Mo at all for it. If Larry's dumb enough to offer Mo mo' money, then Mo's agent has pulled off a move of brilliance.

 

But then when Larry does not offer him anything and Mo walks, he is seen as dumb too. It is a no-win situation for him. Part of his job is retaining key players and that is what he is doing here. Is Mo going to be overpaid? Absolutely. Are most players probably overpaid, though? Absolutely. Mo has been a steal for the past few years.

 

Ah, but we're not asking Francis to "lead" a team, are we? We're just wanting him to keep the PG seat warm for a year.

 

Playing point guard is leading a team.

 

Either way, the PG options out there this season are atrocious and Harris would be ill-served offering any of them serious cash.

 

Agreed, another reason why resigning Mo is so important.

[Oldcity]

Six years at $51 million for Mo Williams is a complete joke. He's not worth close to that. I hope he inexplicably declines it.

[qrk10000]

I just read that the offer was bumped up to that too. Wow. That certainly is a lot of money and more than I would pay him. It goes to show what the Bucks think about the next available options, though. They would have been better off negotiating with him during the season (maybe they tried, not sure).

[dadofandrew]

I think we need to remember that NBA contracts are pretty much all ridiculous...Gadzuric makes 6y/$36M, and he's best suited to be a 12-15 minute a game reserve. Everyone's overpaid, that's just the way it is.

[Giraldo8]

I've been monitoring this thread closely and I believe I'm in the sign Mo camp if it's affordable. Just want to point out what a nice response that was by qrk in response to many or all of Don's concerns.

[qrk10000]

I think we need to remember that NBA contracts are pretty much all ridiculous...Gadzuric makes 6y/$36M, and he's best suited to be a 12-15 minute a game reserve. Everyone's overpaid, that's just the way it is.

 

Gadz definitely is overpaid, but I think he gets a bad rap. They guy barely got time to play last year but when he did, he often did a nice job. I hope that Coach K works him into the offense a bit more in 2007/08 similar to the "high energy / spark plug" role he filled in the past. He is a nice guy to have in there when they want to push the ball up the court quickly.

[dadofandrew]

I agree, he's fun to watch and he rebounds and defends decently, but he's still just a role player. $6M for that or $8M for an average PG who may well improve? That's an easy call.