job-seeker contacts/advice

[jerichoholicninja]

On a completely different note my wife just tested the job market and got a response from the hiring manager saying when they would close the position and start scheduling interviews 6 minutes after applying. I consider it a good sign that her potential boss is actually acting like there is a shortage of employees.

 

The two places I look for jobs are Indeed and my local COC's website. When I started looking in October I'd almost never see the same job posted in both places. Over the last couple months I'm now seeing a job posted one place and then a couple weeks later posted in the other or posted again entirely. That tells me they're not getting many or any applicants.

[nate82]

 

The two places I look for jobs are Indeed and my local COC's website. When I started looking in October I'd almost never see the same job posted in both places. Over the last couple months I'm now seeing a job posted one place and then a couple weeks later posted in the other or posted again entirely. That tells me they're not getting many or any applicants.

 

Or they are looking for a unicorn.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The market is absolutely insane for candidates. I just took an offer. I requested matched PTO and countered saying the offered salary was not adequate. They gave me both. The next day, I got a request for another interview. I said I needed to know the salary before proceeding any further. Normally I would let that play out naturally but the candidates hold all the cards right now.

 

My brother is an engineer around Milwaukee early in his career. He was making roughly $85k. A government defense contractor based in Virginia offered him a remote position for $125k after one interview. He put in his 2 weeks and management immediately matched the $125k and made him a senior.

 

If you are even considering a move, now is the time, in almost any industry.

[ewitkows]

Yeah my wife just moved from Kohls to Target. Full remote , promotion 2 levels above where she was and a nice bump in pay.

[jerichoholicninja]

I was just adjusting my resume to apply for a job when I noticed a spelling error. I sent the resume I was working on out last week so I immediately went back to the email I sent it in to see if the spelling error was there too. Yup. Great.

[nodakfan17]

What’s the consensus on 1-page vs. 2-page resumes these days?

 

I’ve always preferred the 1-page format. It’s basically a tear sheet on the candidate and helps demonstrate they can write concisely. It probably depends on the job and career stage, but I’d imagine a 1-page resume is still appropriate for 99% of openings.

 

I ask because I’ve spent a few bucks to have online resume coaches review my application materials and two have come back with a version of my resume where my experience spills on to a second page. That drives me nuts. Am I off base?

[zurch1818]

When I look at resumes, I prefer one pagers and see how close you live to our office. Our company also has very low turnover which makes us not ever need to do huge hiring sprees. We have also been fortunate enough to stay quite busy these past 2 years.

 

I don't necessarily hold it against them for two pagers. The one thing that I really like is when there is a cover letter that doesn't really mention something on the resume or goes into depth on something on the resume and it is directly tailored to the job posting. It also shows things about your character, and how you might fit into the culture of the company. This moves you to the front of the line.

 

I think experience is something better for the cover letter, but maybe I'm just old school in how I review resumes. Our company is small enough where we don't really have an HR department to process resumes and there is no computer algorithm. It's a manual process. A lot of times if there isn't a cover letter, I'm not really that interested as it just shows me that you aren't really that interested in the position.

 

Career fairs are also a great way to get moved to the front of the line.

[madbad2000]

I want resumes that speak to the job and your experience. If you have a one page that speaks to your skills and experience, fantastic. If you need 2 to demonstrate over the multitude of jobs you had, that's fine too. What I don't want to see is a drawn out resume that has experience that isn't applicable to what you're applying for. List your jobs in chronological order so no gaps..or explain a gap is fine too. I have had resumes where they had employment gaps due to school or moving, but it was explained easily. Always put the meat of your write up in those experience blocks that you're trying to highlight for the posting. And I agree that every resume needs to be tailored to that job opening. Use keywords from the posting and make sure to highlight the good stuff right up front in a summary of qualifications of some sort. For example, if you are applying for a job that needed a security clearance, put that right at the top to make it stand out. The last hiring process I was a part of required a Secret with TS preferred. There were probably at least 10 resumes where the candidate most likely had a clearance due to the job they were doing, but didn't get an interview because they did not list a clearance anywhere in the resume.

[nodakfan17]

I’ve been job hunting for about a month.

 

Last week, I had a great interview with one of my current employer’s competitors. I met with 4 people, including the CFO. It was probably the smoothest interview of my life. They spent most of the time selling me on how well I would fit in there. Unfortunately, their initial offer was pretty low and came with a title I last held 4 years ago. I countered by asking for $20K more and a manager title (which I have in my current role). I met with them again yesterday over lunch and am expecting a second offer today. I get a great vibe from these folks and would likely join them if they hit my target comp.

 

If their second offer comes back low again, can I counter one more time or will they think ‘forget it, this guy will never be happy?’

[RobDeer 45]

I've been a recruiter for 11 years now so I have a lot of experience with negotiating. I think it get's harder to counter after your initial counter, but it can be done. Let me ask you this, if they come back low are you ok with walking away? I think the strongest move you can make is respectfully saying something like "I want the job and I think I'd be a great fit with your company and team. If you can meet me at $____ I'd accept today and give my notice. If you can't go any higher, I understand. Financially it doesn't make sense for me at this amount, so I unfortunately would have to decline."

 

Of course they still may walk away, but if it's close they may come back with the offer you want. I think you need to have the lowest number in your head that you're ok with. Make sure it's a number that won't leave you resentful down the road because you don't want to be in that type of position.

 

In my opinion companies get to the point of "forget this guy" when a candidate is waffling or passively asking for more multiple times (for money or vacation, etc). I think if you're strong they will respect it and hopefully come up to what you are asking for.

 

Again, please know that with this type of move you may lose the job. Having a job you know you'd love is worth a lot. So again, figure out what your low dollar amount is that still leaves you happy with the decision. If they can't meet that, I'd use a counter like I mentioned.

[nodakfan17]

I really appreciate that insight.

 

This is a good opportunity and I probably wouldn’t turn it down if they missed my target comp by just a few thousand. I was caught off guard by their first offer because it was so low and came almost immediately after my first in-person interview. I was very honest about my requirements when I countered their initial offer ($20K more plus a manager title) and I wouldn’t go back and ask for more money if they hit that number. I’m assuming they’ll try to meet me halfway, but that probably won’t be enough to get me to jump ship.

 

I’ll probably use your suggested language - ‘I’m very interested in the job and believe I’m a great fit for the company. If you can do this and this for me, I’m prepared to accept and put in my notice.’ I’m willing to walk away, but it’s be a darn shame because I think I’d be very happy there.

[GAME05]

I don't really want the Superintendent position at my current work. Even other superintendents say not to do it for all the stress. But I'm leaning toward applying, anyway. I started this career at 38, so I'm way way behind in retirement savings, and I'm not sure I can pass up an opportunity for another $1000 per month.

[RobDeer 45]

I really appreciate that insight.

 

This is a good opportunity and I probably wouldn’t turn it down if they missed my target comp by just a few thousand. I was caught off guard by their first offer because it was so low and came almost immediately after my first in-person interview. I was very honest about my requirements when I countered their initial offer ($20K more plus a manager title) and I wouldn’t go back and ask for more money if they hit that number. I’m assuming they’ll try to meet me halfway, but that probably won’t be enough to get me to jump ship.

 

I’ll probably use your suggested language - ‘I’m very interested in the job and believe I’m a great fit for the company. If you can do this and this for me, I’m prepared to accept and put in my notice.’ I’m willing to walk away, but it’s be a darn shame because I think I’d be very happy there.

 

You bet. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

[nodakfan17]

I thought the negotiation went well. These folks have been so kind to me. It felt a little uncomfortable to argue over comp (even though that’s business). Recall, I wanted $20K more than the initial offer. We settled on $15K yesterday with them coming up $15K and me down $5K. It was extremely awkward because they spent the last 2 weeks selling me on their company and telling me how great I am, but then an hour telling me why I wasn’t worth the extra $20K. I imagine this is a lot like baseball arbitration.We still haven’t settled on a deal, but the salary seems to be ironed out.

[nodakfan17]

Here’s my next question for the BF brain trust:

 

I’d potentially be joining an organization that’s smaller than the one I’d be leaving. My department would have few managers and many generalists. Everyone works in-person on the same floor and there would be a ton of potential for organic learning and growth opportunities. I would be joining the new organization as a ‘Senior Analyst.’

 

My current organization uses lateral titling. Most people progress through the following pay grades at some point during their careers:

 

Analyst

Senior Analyst

Manager

Senior Manager

Associate Director

Director

 

I’ve held a ‘Manager’ title for the last 4 years and would probably be in-line for a promotion to ‘Senior Manager’ during the next cycle. I worry about taking a ‘Senior Analyst’ title again, even if the new job pays better. Is a future employer going to see my chronological resume and think I couldn’t handle the responsibilities at my last job?

 

I inquired about getting creative with my new title to demonstrate growth on my resume and they seemed hesitant because it may be unfair to people currently in that role. I think they view the ‘Senior Analyst’ title with more distinction, whereas in my current company, it’d be used more for colleagues with 3-6 years of experience.

 

How hard should I push this? I don’t want to come in and upend their culture by being the guy who insisted on a vanity title, but I also don’t want to explain to my wife why I’m back to being an analyst.

 

Thanks in advance for the input. I feel like a clown for making a big deal about a title. I can’t wait for this uncomfortable part to be over.

[zurch1818]

I work for a small engineering firm where we really don't have titles. Our department when I started was 3 people (including me) and now we are 7.5ish (including me). It's a relatively flat structure. People that perform quickly see their pay and responsibility increase quickly while others are content and don't see the same change. We just don't have enough people to have the well defined titles you describe.

 

Although I am technically the lead of the group, I feel just like everyone else. I also wear a coding, Excel guru, and IT hat for the company...all of which are not in my technical job description which technically hasn't changed since I started almost 10 years ago.

 

My opinion, a title is nice to have, but for a small company, it is kind of meaningless. The culture and how well you feel your skillet is valued are much more important than a title. There is an opportunity for more breadth growth with a small company. That isn't saying there won't be depth growth too as there will be that too. It just probably won't be as specialized as working for a large company. It all depends on how specialized the company is.

[madbad2000]

I don't get caught up in Titles. It's all about your experience and what you can do. Titles are not uniform and hiring managers can see through fancy/fluff pretty quickly. I work in the Defense sector and it seems like companies have more Vice Presidents than normal employees at times. I personally watched a company give an employee a VP title with zero change in responsibility or pay solely because they thought they could get this person an audience with a GS-15 to sell a product. Another small business was like 10 people and 8 of them were VPs outside of CEO and CFO.

[Ewitkows1]

Titles do matter when your switching companies. I went from a Senior product specialist to a Senior Product Manager even though I didn't manager any people and the doors flew open on opportunities. My job didn't change, just the title. 

[GAME05]

I would only imagine the co-workers would understand that you negotiated the title only for resume purposes. They're navigating the same job-world, too.

[Jimbo]

1. Could be corporate policy.

2. Could be a compliance issue.

3. With new management people in place, they want their own person?

4. Maybe they're just dancing with me until a prettier girl comes along.

The backstory is I was pretty much hired on the spot after a twenty-minute phone interview.  Sight unseen, no background check.  The guy they had before walked off the job the second day and the guy I was replacing was retiring in three days.

--

Carried over from the bugging you thread.  Had my interview Wednesday.  They were more transparent.  They are looking to expand the role from an engineering one to more of I would say "quasi-managerial", so they're also looking outside the company.  My skills experience for this specific role would likely not match someone they would find through a search.  I questioned the timeline, The response was "as long as it takes to find the right person".  So I see it as a sign of above #4.  Indeed.com gets mentioned a lot here.  Time to open an account!

 

[jerichoholicninja]

I got a job offer from Job A and accepted it last week. I also have an application out there for Job B at a place I've wanted to work at for almost 10 years. I haven't heard anything from Job B but I think I've got a good shot at it. I really wasn't all that interested in Job A until the interview when they basically they told me I could work whatever schedule I wanted and almost seemed to bend over backwards to get me to take it.

My question is if Job B wants to interview me do I take it knowing full well probably the only way I would take the job would be if they offer me the same schedule? I don't want to waste their time but I also want them to know that I would love to work there but right now having that flexibly of schedule fits better with my family.

[owbc]

On 4/19/2022 at 11:33 AM, jerichoholicninja said:

I got a job offer from Job A and accepted it last week. I also have an application out there for Job B at a place I've wanted to work at for almost 10 years. I haven't heard anything from Job B but I think I've got a good shot at it. I really wasn't all that interested in Job A until the interview when they basically they told me I could work whatever schedule I wanted and almost seemed to bend over backwards to get me to take it.

My question is if Job B wants to interview me do I take it knowing full well probably the only way I would take the job would be if they offer me the same schedule? I don't want to waste their time but I also want them to know that I would love to work there but right now having that flexibly of schedule fits better with my family.

Before accepting A I would have reached out to B saying I have an offer in hand and want to see what they can do to speed along the process. My partner was in this situation recently with several companies and the ones that were seriously interested came back with an expedited interview schedule. These days an accepted offer doesn't mean what it used to but it still puts you in a sticky situation if you have to bail on A. 

[jerichoholicninja]

On 4/19/2022 at 1:33 PM, jerichoholicninja said:

I got a job offer from Job A and accepted it last week. I also have an application out there for Job B at a place I've wanted to work at for almost 10 years. I haven't heard anything from Job B but I think I've got a good shot at it. I really wasn't all that interested in Job A until the interview when they basically they told me I could work whatever schedule I wanted and almost seemed to bend over backwards to get me to take it.

My question is if Job B wants to interview me do I take it knowing full well probably the only way I would take the job would be if they offer me the same schedule? I don't want to waste their time but I also want them to know that I would love to work there but right now having that flexibly of schedule fits better with my family.

I knew before applying that more than likely both jobs would have interactions with each other at some point. I had orientation for the job I accepted this morning. My first day is Monday and we will be meeting with Job B. I still haven't heard anything from Job B but I guess they're going to find out I accepeted a job elsewhere on Monday.

[sveumrules]

Brewers looking for a Developer - Baseball Systems if anyone in our midst would like to try & board the mothership…

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/instagraphs/job-posting-milwaukee-brewers-developer-baseball-systems/ 

 

[GAME05]

A little bit has changed with the coming promotion opportunity at my job. I didn't want it because I thought it was only going to be a 10% raise and that wasn't worth the extra stress. But I guess it should be more like 30%. I still don't want to do the work, and in all the job doesn't really suit my skills and interests. But since I'll be retiring on only about 60% of a full pension, I think I have to go for the opportunity. Between that and selling hot dogs (which the current boss has said should be manageable) I should be able to put away an additional $2000 per month in addition to the roughly $500/mo I'm putting away now. Plus it'll bump my pension from roughly $1200/mo to maybe $1400/mo.

In all it looks like it'll mean being able to retire at maybe 56 y/o (45 now). Otherwise you tend to get force-retired at about 60. As well as having a good enough income up to and including whatever Social Security might be there (but that won't be much, as I haven't paid much in).