Macha throws Fielder, Braun, under the bus (so to speak)

[DuWayne Steurer]

Mods, I hope this conversational topic is specific enough to warrant it's own thread.......this is more about clubhouse animosity with Macha and the boys.

 

 

http://gazettextra.com/ne...ha-reflects-lost-season/

 

excerpts...

 

"If the effort wasn't reciprocated, then there's not a whole lot I

can do about it. You can't force guys to do that," Macha said as he

drove home to Pittsburgh after his early-morning meeting with general

manager Doug Melvin. "Some guys were open to discussion and some guys

weren't, I guess.

 

"I talked a lot to Ryan almost every day, but he does his own thing. He's going to do what he wants to do.

Later in the article.........

"Those are the two guys, but the rest of the guys, it was all positive,"

said Macha, who was reported to have had tenuous relationships with

certain players while managing Oakland from 2003-'06. "I opened up to

(Braun and Fielder) but you have to have a back and forth. That never

really happened."

 

I'm not sure that I like this about Macha. I like our brash young superstars to strut a bit.......

Macha put a stop to the over-the-top and sometimes gaudy celebrations

and strongly suggested to Fielder and Braun that the team stop pulling

out their shirttails after victories, an act that drew ire from other

teams. The players agreed to stop that practice.

 

Despite heeding Macha's requests, Braun and Fielder play with

brashness and flair and didn't like being harnessed, though neither

publicly expressed that sentiment.

 

 

 

Do Braun and Fielder (in the unlikely event that he's a Brewer next year) need to go with the flow a bit more, or does our manager to be need to let the guys 'do their thing'?

 

Keep in mind, this is NOT a "who is our next manager" discussion. More about the personality of the clubhouse.

[brewmann04]

i have no problem saying what he said especially if it true and it a bad sign the players think they can do whatever they want . Their has to be a certain amount of respect for the manger.

[GAME05]

my first thought is that Macha would probably be a great manager for the Yankees. it seems like his skill is with older, veteran players but not younger ones.

 

i don't think Macha was being out of line saying that at all. and whether or not Braun and Fielder are hard to get along with, you won't do well as our manager if you can't talk to the two star players.

[M Skjellyfetti]

He threw Yo under the bus a little bit too.

No matter his relationship with Braun, Fielder or anyone else,
winning could have cured Macha's problems. But he never had a real
chance to do so because of a pitching staff that finished with the
league's third-worst earned-run average this season and the second-worst
in 2009.

"We lacked that No. 1 guy going out there," Macha said.

 

[JohnBriggs12]

He threw Yo under the bus a little bit too.

 

No matter his relationship with Braun, Fielder or anyone else, winning could have cured Macha's problems. But he never had a real chance to do so because of a pitching staff that finished with the league's third-worst earned-run average this season and the second-worst in 2009.

"We lacked that No. 1 guy going out there," Macha said.

 

I think that's a fair statement by Macha. Other than strikeouts, what numbers has Gallardo put up that reflect those of a true #1 guy? He's never topped 185 innings. His command comes and goes and he often runs up his pitch counts that limits his innings. He's still a bit of a work in progress and lacks the consistency of top of the line starters on winning teams.

 

I

 

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I agree. Gallardo is a very good pitcher, but he isn't on par with the true aces around the league. I think he's closer to being a very good #2 than a real #1, frankly. Hopefully he will continue to improve as he matures, though.

[dlk9s]

He's a #1 pitcher. Just not on every team.

[M Skjellyfetti]

Depending on how you define a number 1, you can probably make an argument either way. I think, going strictly by the phrase "number 1", Yo would have to be a number 1 as he is clearly one of the top 30 pitchers in the major leagues. If you assign some arbitrary definition to a number 1 outside of being a number 1 starter, then sure, it's arguable. However, none of this really matters either way. It's all semantics.

 

My whole point is that a number 1 starter is not what the Brewers lacked this year. They lacked production from the number 2-5 starters. To call out your best pitcher like that when he was by far better than all the other starters on the team is a little bit out of line, if you ask me.

[Invader3K]

Definitely true. I wasn't trying to bash Gallardo in my post. Realistically, we had Gallardo and then four #4/5 type starters in the rotation all season (maybe you can argue Wolf is a bit better, but that's kind of nit picking). A team can win with a bunch of #2/3 pitchers in the rotation, but not a bunch of #4/5 types.

[rluzinski]

I have no problem with what he said about Fielder and Braun. He wasn't disresptful, just calling it how he sees it (fair or not). I have no problem with their celebrations but I can appreciate why Macha might have.

 

The Gallardo comment is pretty silly, IMO. Yo had the 3rd best FIP among qualified pitchers this year and is easily one of the top 16 pitchers in the NL (even if you ding him a bit for slightly shorter outings). If a manger thinks he needs that as a number 2, he's asking for way too much. Guys like Briggs hear ace and think "top 5 starter in the league" or something. If that's your definition, great. As Skjelly said, it's just semantics. Waste of time to argue about it.

 

Overall, I think Macha's comments were pretty benign. He's giving his side of the story and he has every right to.

[joepepsi]

my first thought is that Macha would probably be a great manager for the Yankees. it seems like his skill is with older, veteran players but not younger ones.

Pretty much anybody would be a great manager for the Yankees in this era.

[RockCoCougars]

As I said in another post, many thought that Macha was just reserved and stoic, while I always detected a smug arrogance about how he conducted himself. His 'parting shots', so to speak, belie that. I'm sure that we will hear the other side of the story soon, and I'm glad that he's gone.

[TooLiveBrew]

I have no problem with what he said about Fielder and Braun. He wasn't disresptful, just calling it how he sees it (fair or not).

 

I don't either, and frankly it wouldn't surprise me one bit to learn that those two guys have a bit too much diva in them.

[BrewCrewForever]

I think before Gallardo's injury in July, he was on par with the other "ace's" in MLB. But after he came off the DL he was not the same for awhile and got roughed up quite a bit. Then he had a bunch of good starts in a row and then had a bad one in his final start.

 

I think if Gallardo can stay healthy for the entire 2011 season and not miss any starts he will have numbers up there with the current Cy Young candidates.

[homer]

I'm not sure what Ken means when he says "Braun did his own thing." I mean, the guy had a pretty successful season at the plate so doing his own thing seemed to work there (power was down but there have been hints he was hurt the middle part of the season). I guess I'd like to know a specific example where "doing his own thing" was detrimental to the club.

[Thurston Fluff]

Keep in mind, this is NOT a "who is our next manager" discussion. More about the personality of the clubhouse.

 

When you are together that much over so long a period of time I think it's important to have a cohesive clubhouse. That doesn't mean everyone has to get along. Some teams did well but some players on it hated each other. If those who don't get along are just sort of ornery to begin with that is, in a sense, the personality of the clubhouse. Ornery people probably do well in ornery groups. The Brewers clubhouse seemed more fun loving. Even Prince who was a hto head seemed to be a fun loving guy. Just got mad once in a while. Macha just wasn't that type of guy so he probably just wasn't a good fit.

[DHonks]

MAcha was throwing Gamel and others under the bus repeatedly this year. It's his style...he's honest to reporters, just to a fault

[greeg35]

In order for brutal honesty to be a positive/effective tool, you have to have developed a relationship with the person you are being honest with/about. Macha admittedly did not start actively working on his relationships with players until the start of his second year. I would have written him off too. Say what you want about players doing their part and all that is true; but the tone for the team is set by the manager and its his job to get the best out of whatever players are given to him (even if they are somewhat immature and/or selfish). Macha's tone was has a one-word description: bleh, and he threw up his hands and made the "its a two-way street" excuse instead of getting the best out of them.

[TooLiveBrew]

I guess I'd like to know a specific example where "doing his own thing" was detrimental to the club.

 

His ridiculously bad defense. Reminds me of Shaq's free throw shooting -- no one can be *that* bad if they're honestly working hard to improve.

[jerichoholicninja]

In order for brutal honesty to be a positive/effective tool, you have to have developed a relationship with the person you are being honest with/about. Macha admittedly did not start actively working on his relationships with players until the start of his second year. I would have written him off too. Say what you want about players doing their part and all that is true; but the tone for the team is set by the manager and its his job to get the best out of whatever players are given to him (even if they are somewhat immature and/or selfish). Macha's tone was has a one-word description: bleh, and he threw up his hands and made the "its a two-way street" excuse instead of getting the best out of them.

Agree with all of this. Obviously Prince and Braun have a swagger about them. So do ARod and Pujols and just about every great player in every sport. I never once saw anyone on this team do anything that was disrespectful to other players or teams. The cannonball thing was pretty borderline, but everyone including veterans and coaches were involved, but other than that this is just a team that has fun. It's too bad grandpa Ken was more worried about crying to teacher about guys getting hit and making sure everyone was "mature" instead of trying to form relationships with his players. Yost was a terrible in game manager but it was obvious guys loved him and wanted to play for him. Ken is the exact opposite of Ned and in some ways I think that is worse.

[BrewCrewForever]

Basically the perfect storm for this team would be a manager with Yost's personality and Macha's in-game management.

[ilovebeer]

I wonder if Braun will have a say so in who the new manager will be.Macha was not the right manger for us,I bet if we hire someone younger, Braun would get along with him much better.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Does anyone remember when Braun and Prince started doing their boxing celebration after a HR? I don't remember them doing it when Yost was the manager. I thought it started Macha's first year, but they didn't start doing it right away, it was a month or two into the season. That's my recollection at least.

 

I wonder if that was a reaction to Macha's old school ways. Or I could just be way off base.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I wonder if Braun will have a say so in who the new manager will be.Macha was not the right manger for us,I bet if we hire someone younger, Braun would get along with him much better.

Yeah, maybe we could hire Mike Sherman and Braun could just run the team.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I wonder if Braun will have a say so in who the new manager will be.Macha was not the right manger for us,I bet if we hire someone younger, Braun would get along with him much better.

I don't think it should be up to the players to be choosing the manager.