Team by team analysis of Fielder trade partners

[PrinceFielderx1]

I'd do Fielder/Peralta to Seattle for Pineda. Without question. Can anybody Imagine Pineda and Rogers in the Brewers 2011 rotation? Trade prospects for an ace like Greinke and that would be even better. Spend available payroll on offense and re-signing Weeks and perhaps Greinke.

 

Rotation would look something like this,

 

Greinke

Gallardo

Wolf

Pineda

Rogers

 

That would be a sick rotation for years to come.

[endaround]

I don't see why everyone is so enthused about having Rogers in Milwaukee in 2011. He isn't ready. Its great that he's back pitching but he kind of stunk last year. A few innings in Milwaukee doesn't overpower the fact that he had serious command issues in the minors.

[colbyjack]

That's not realistic, but Fielder plus Peralta probably gets close. Jack Z. has to be feeling the heat to improve the offense.

 

Fielder plus another player for a pitcher that hasn't thrown a single pitch in the big leagues? I know Pineda is one of the game's best pitching prospects, but on principle alone you can't make that trade.

 

I've mentioned this before, but I think people are really under-selling Fielder's value. I understand why, but just because he only has one year left, coming off of a down season (which still was pretty good) doesn't mean he's practically worthless.

 

And just because he only has one year left on his deal doesn't mean teams will avoid him like the plague. The Orioles headed into this offseason intent on adding a big bat or more to their lineup. They have some young talent in key places, and regardless if you feel they should sit back and wait until they are in a better position to compete, they seem intent on adding some marquee talent. Plus, they have some young pitching that could make such a deal happen. Chris Tillman is reportedly on the block for Mark Reynolds.

 

Prince is going to have a huge year next season. As much as I recognize the value of trading him vs. getting draft picks, I almost want him to stick around to see what he does.

EDIT: A good point was made about how the Gonzalez trade could set the market so to speak for Prince. Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo are expected to be the main prospects included, and while some publications may have rated both fairly high, I think most of us would agree that the Red Sox' prospects experience similar inflation as Yankees prospects do based on perception.

And the Rangers are a team that reportedly were looking to add a big bat this offseason. They reportedly were interested in Konerko, but all of their efforts right now may be focused on Cliff Lee. That is probably what is holding up a possible deal for Greinke as well. There is going to be a lot more activity and clarity once a few more of these transactions occur, making a few more teams in the mix.

[Invader3K]

I agree. Once Cliff Lee signs, a lot of other moves are going to start happening.

[ramssuperbowl99]

It looks like Boston is going to land Gonzalez. I'll be looking at the haul San Diego gets for him. If the Brewers can't get something similar, they probably shouldn't do it.

Gonzalez has more value than Fielder for a few reasons.

1. He's a AL 1B, unlike Fielder

2. He's under contract for something like $8-10 M cheaper.

3. Teams like his body type better.

4. He's posted similar wOBAs to Fielder despite playing in Petco Park.

5. He appears to be more willing to talk about an extension than Prince.

If the Brewers throw in most of Fielder's salary, they should be looking for a relatively similar package, but Fielder straight up does not have the same value as Gonzalez.

[Ennder]

I completely agree with rams. Fielder has significantly less value than Gonzalez does. I'd expect to get a much weaker offer than the Padres got.

[logan82]

If the Brewers throw in most of Fielder's salary, they should be looking for a relatively similar package, but Fielder straight up does not have the same value as Gonzalez.

Honestly we should be looking to pay most of Fielder's salary if we trade him. As long as the return is good.

[ramssuperbowl99]

logan3825]

If the Brewers throw in most of Fielder's salary, they should be looking for a relatively similar package, but Fielder straight up does not have the same value as Gonzalez.

Honestly we should be looking to pay most of Fielder's salary if we trade him. As long as the return is good.

Absolutely. We won't get much of a return if we trade Fielder and don't negate at least 50% of his estimated $15 M salary.

[paul253]

Looking at who the Padres got for Gonzalez is really frustrating. I realize Baseball America is only one opinion, but according to their recently released Boston Top 10 prospect list, SD go ttheir #1, #3 and #6 prospects. That's a darn good haul for someone that was going to leave after next season anyway. I don't expect Milwaukee to get a return like SD got, but they should be able to get something. What's really holding Milwaukee back is two things. That ***** Scott Boras who absolutely refuses to sign a long term deal with anyone (thanks Scott) and Melvin's insistence on getting a major league ready pitcher. At this point, I am willing to get no pitching in return for Fielder and instead take two position prospects because unless he gets Greinke I don't see any way the Brewers can compete for the playoffs in 2011. The fact is position player wise, Milwaukee's farm system is really weak. We have two high draft picks next season but the draft is really strong in pitching (from what I hear) so I'd love to see two pitchers taken. Getting two high ceiling position players for Fielder may be more realistic and better in the long run for this organization.

[BrandonBurns]

paul253]Looking at who the Padres got for Gonzalez is really frustrating. I realize Baseball America is only one opinion, but according to their recently released Boston Top 10 prospect list, SD go ttheir #1, #3 and #6 prospects. That's a darn good haul for someone that was going to leave after next season anyway.

You touched on it a bit, but there's no way Boston gives up those 3 if an extension wasn't imminent. If teams thought they could get something done with an exclusive negotiating window, it at least doubles Fielder's trade value IMO.

[paul253]

I wonder if Boston would have given up Rizzo and that outfielder for Fielder. That's the kind of deal I think Melvin should start to focus on.

[endaround]

I just don't see this package that much greater than 2 draft picks. So you're basically saving money and that's about it.

[paul253]

I just don't see this package that much greater than 2 draft picks. So you're basically saving money and that's about it.

 

Draft picks are so hit and miss though. They could get two pretty good players, but statistically speaking they are more like to miss. I'd rather take two guys who have already had successful minor league seasons. Rizzo has some good looking numbers, and he was fairly young for his league last season. Fuentes numbers suggest he has some things to work on, like making contact, but he is the type of player who could turn into a solid player.

 

Plus, we are all just assuming that we'll get a team's first round pick for Fielder. That didn't happen when we lost Sabathia and there's a chance it may not happen with Fielder either.

[RockCoCougars]

It would be very foolhardy to eat any of Fielder's contract in a trade. For God's sake, he's not Jeff Suppan. We need to back off our fixation on longshot prospects, take a deep breath and look at what this guy has done here over the past five years - even last year in a 'down' year. I know that Scott Boras is the devil, but Fielder is easily one of the top 5 players this franchise has ever developed. Guys like him don't come around very often, and I think if he gets traded, it's going to look really bad in 5 years. If he walks he walks, but this 'take whatever we can get for him' attitude that seems to be getting more prevalent is off the mark in my opinion.

[paul253]

We need to back off our fixation on longshot prospects, take a deep

breath and look at what this guy has done here over the past five years

 

The problem is that it doesn't matter he has done the past five years. The only thing that matters is what people are willing to give up for him. He could be Mickey Mantle but if teams are only willing to give us a #4 starter then he's only worth a #4 starter. Melvin's insistence on two pitchers cost us a chance to get Daniel Hudson. Now his insistence on a major league ready pitcher may cost them a shot at some decent prospects. So in the end, it comes down to what you want to do.....take what you can get for him, or take two draft picks. It'd be nice to know what kind of draft picks you'd get. It could be the #16 pick. It could be the the #45 pick. That's another chance Melvin has to take.

[RockCoCougars]

Rather than making a trade just to make one (I still wouldn't do the Hudson deal today), I'd prefer playing to win in 2011 and seeing where the chips fall. Keep Fielder and depending on whether you compete, extend him, trade him at the deadline or take the picks.

[ramssuperbowl99]

Rather than making a trade just to make one (I still wouldn't do the Hudson deal today), I'd prefer playing to win in 2011 and seeing where the chips fall. Keep Fielder and depending on whether you compete, extend him, trade him at the deadline or take the picks.

Wait a minute...you think we can compete in 2011? Maybe if Randy Wolf wins the Cy Young.

Fact is, this team is competing for 2012, and more realistically 2013. Melvin's insistence on MLB ready pitching is killing Fielder's trade value. I'd rather get a guy with true #1 upside than settle for another soft-tossing #4 that Melvin has been so partial to in his career.

Fielder is worth a few million above his performance this season, in all likelihood, so unless we increase that value by paying his salary, we aren't going to see the prospects we want. Keeping Fielder and taking the draft picks is completely asinine, so we need to go and get as much upside as we possibly can as soon as we can.

[paul253]

At some point you need to look towards the future so that you can remain competitive. He has given every indication that he will not re-sign with the Brewers so we can forget that option. I would do the Hudson deal because he is a young cheap pitcher that you control for a number of years...the exact kind of pitcher you wanted to get for Fielder. Yes you can probably draft someone with a higher upside (though not for sure because again, you may end up with the higher of the two picks being in the 30's) but you'd also now have to wait at least four years for them to be major league ready. You also have to deal with the fact that the Brewers have been terrible at developing their own pitching so it's anything but a "for sure" when you take the draft picks. I'd rather take someone like Hudson who you know will at least pitch in the majors, or someone like Rizzo (plus another prospect) who has already had success at the upper levels of the minor leagues than to put all my eggs in the draft basket.

 

I am not suggesting you trade him just because. But look at the offers you have, realize it's the best you're going to do, and pick the best of them. Or do something, like taking prospects vs only major league ready players or offer to pay most of his salary, in order to make those offers better.

[RockCoCougars]

So maybe the Brewers should just forfeit 2011? As it stands right now, they have one of the best offenses in baseball. I'm not sure why people are thinking in 2012 the team will be a well oiled machine. Chances are that Weeks and Fielder will both be gone. The loss of 2 of the 3 best hitters on the team will not be easily overcome. You aren't going to be able to replace them with guys like Jack Cust, LaRoche or Gamel and Kelly Johnson and not miss a beat. Wolf will be old at that point, so you better hope that all these young guys are ready- and ready to skip the typical growing pains that young starters in MLB tend to have. I guess that I see a long rebuilding process after this season if they play as poorly as they have the past two.

 

I see it differently in that the window is closing. If the bullpen does not implode again next season, I have no reason to believe that the Brewers can't compete if they can get a #1/#2 pitcher to push Wolf to 3, and pick up someone to fill the #4 hole with upside. Cappy should be resigned and be penciled in as the #5. I for one am tired of hearing Melvin's 'it's tough to find pitching' excuse. Get on the phones and target a few legit pitchers via trade. If that means raiding the farm system somewhat, so be it. Carl Pavano and the like are not going to get the job done. In my view, if this team doesn't compete, Melvin will almost certainly be gone. He had better get off his hands and start working the phones if he wants to save his job.

[ramssuperbowl99]

So maybe the Brewers should just forfeit 2011? As it stands right now, they have one of the best offenses in baseball. I'm not sure why people are thinking in 2012 the team will be a well oiled machine. Chances are that Weeks and Fielder will both be gone. The loss of 2 of the 3 best hitters on the team will not be easily overcome. You aren't going to be able to replace them with guys like Jack Cust, LaRoche or Gamble and Kelly Johnson and not miss a beat. Wolf will be old at that point, so you better hope that all these young guys are ready- and ready to skip the typical growing pains that young starters in MLB tend to have. I guess that I see a long rebuilding process after this season if they play as poorly as they have the past two.

 

I see it differently in that the window is closing. If the bullpen does not implode again next season, I have no reason to believe that the Brewers can't compete if they can get a #1/#2 pitcher to push Wolf to 3, and pick up someone to fill the #4 hole with upside. Cappy should be resigned and be penciled in as the #5. I for one am tired of hearing Melvin's 'it's tough to find pitching' excuse. Get on the phones and target a few legit pitchers via trade. If that means raiding the farm system somewhat, so be it. Carl Pavano and the like are not going to get the job done.

Should the Brewers forfeit 2011? In a word, yes. Focus on 2012/2013, when we have a legitimate chance to see fruits from the development of some players.

As it stands right now, the Brewers have every key non-Fielder piece extended or in a position to be extended past 2013. They have a farm system that is deep in pitching. They have a top position prospect.

As for the "window closing", it's closed. If this was 2008, I could see talk about the window closing, but we haven't been legitimately competitive since we lost Sabathia and Sheets. Anyone who thinks this team is someone different or that our bullpen is going to make up those 15 wins of production that we need is kidding themselves. Listen to your needs: 2 pitchers - 1 of which is a #1/#2 type and the other of which is a "#4 with upside" (translation - a #3). That won't happen. And even if it does, we aren't good enough defensively to take advantage of a good pitching staff, not with Fielder playing 1B, Hart playing RF, Braun playing LF, and McGehee playing 3B. If we win 80 games next season, I'll be pleasantly surprised. We just aren't that good.

Go shop Fielder. Find a stopgap to keep butts in the seats. Get some upside prospects, and hope that somebody becomes Robin to Yovani's Batman. Extend Weeks and groom Lawrie to play 3B. Move McGehee to first full time when the time comes. Let Lucroy/Escobar/Cain/Rogers develop, and start Jeffress/Axford as the 8th and 9th inning guys. Draft pitching this season, and let the farm fill out the obvious gaps this current roster has.

[colbyjack]

It would be very foolhardy to eat any of Fielder's contract in a trade. For God's sake, he's not Jeff Suppan. We need to back off our fixation on longshot prospects, take a deep breath and look at what this guy has done here over the past five years - even last year in a 'down' year. I know that Scott Boras is the devil, but Fielder is easily one of the top 5 players this franchise has ever developed. Guys like him don't come around very often, and I think if he gets traded, it's going to look really bad in 5 years. If he walks he walks, but this 'take whatever we can get for him' attitude that seems to be getting more prevalent is off the mark in my opinion.

 

Well said RoCo. I'd hate to see the Brewers include any money in any Fielder deal, or settle for whatever package of players the team can get for him.

 

If the Brewers are intent on trading Fielder, I also agree that Melvin needs to get the best package of players he can get, prospects or big-leaguers, hitters or pitchers. I'd hate to see the Brewers get a package like the one they got for Jeff Cirillo, in which the team was also intent on getting two big-league ready pitchers (Jamey Wright and Jimmy Haynes). I realize draft picks are risky, but I'd rather see the team hold onto Fielder for 2011 than settle, as we all know his value should be greater than how it is currently perceived.

 

I can almost guarantee that Fielder is going to have a much better 2011 season, and will fetch some good talent at the trade deadline should the Brewers continue to not compete for the playoffs.

 

And I also completely understand the argument that this team may not even be in position to go for it next year, but I highly doubt Melvin and Attanasio are going to take the same approach. Since that's the case, as I've mentioned before, I'd love to see the team go for it, make some bold moves, make a strong push for Greinke, and see what it does for them. As RoCo also pointed out, the Brewers offense is potent, and the team fared much better after the first 40 or so games of the season once they replaced Hoffman as the closer, ditched Suppan, had Hawkins go on the DL, etc., and let some young players take over to see what they can do. The team still played roughly .500 ball after that point in time, but it's proof that the Brewers do have some solid pieces in place if they make the right moves to complement the team.

[logan82]

If he walks he walks, but this 'take whatever we can get for him' attitude that seems to be getting more prevalent is off the mark in my opinion.

I have no idea where you are getting the notion that "take whatever we can get for him" attitude is prevalent. You may technically be right that it is more prevalent but one person saying it where none had before would technically make it "more prevalent." There have been people who said we shouldn't expect much in return. That is prevalent. I have always said we should eat some or much of Fielder's contract "if the return is right."

[MNBrew]

If he walks he walks, but this 'take whatever we can get for him' attitude that seems to be getting more prevalent is off the mark in my opinion.

 

Where has anybody said or implied we should take whatever we can get for him. There have been people who said we shouldn't expect much in return. I have always said "if the return is right."

Several people have said that -- or at minimum something very similar to and clearly implying that "We should take whatever we can get for him and move on." I don't have the time or concern to dig up the quotes, but I've definitely read it. . . . I'm not saying you said it, Logan, but some folks have said it.

 

And I agree with RoCo. We've got one of the best young hitters in the game. At worst, take the picks even though they're a crapshoot, too. But don't give him away just to make the move. That would be the wrong approach.

 

And one other thing: Just because Melvin may not end up bringing in the pitching we know the team needs DOESN'T mean it should cost him his job. We're outsiders and we only know a) what we read, and b) the result of Melvin's work. It takes someone willing to give up that pitching. It takes two to tango, whether that means a FA pitcher & his agent, or an opposing GM. You can't make someone do something they don't want to do. And I don't think many of us would advocate, for instance, giving up "whatever it takes" to land a Greinke -- for example, if KC told DM if the Brewers would give KC all of their top 5 prospects, then they'd have a deal -- would that price TRULY be worth it? Melvin & Attanasio & most everyone on this board probably wouldn't dare make that trade unless that would be the final difference-making straw, guaranteeing a trip to the World Series (and even then, if that could be guaranteed, I'd bet half this Board would be saying how DM killed the team's future just to make a WS appearance).

[PilprinBuddha]

Here is my deal with Melvin and the Prince situation....This appears from an outside perspective....to be a continuation of a GM who doesn't manage his assets well. DM has been a disaster in signing FA's who are not veterans on their last leg or guys who have been discarded by their previous teams - That actually seems to be his strength. His major signings of outside guys have been failures. His HC selections have been Yost...ok...Sveum...undecided...Macha....complete disaster...Roenicke...optimistic. His trades have been ok....nothing great - outside the half year rental of Sabathia. The starting lineup has primarily guys we drafted....many before he came on board.

Prince lost considerable value after the trade deadline and likely will only recoup a portion of that as the next ones nears (praying someone gets desperate). People can bag on Daniel Hudson, but he appears to be better than anything we will get in return and have a significant chance of being better than the two draft picks we could get if Prince walks. Besides those two vaunted draft picks won't help us for years to come....who where those draft picks from Sabathia....are they on our team yet?

I apologize for being cranky, but for the last 25 years this organization has been a frustration. I thought we turned the corner a couple of years ago, but now I see us right back in the track of mediocrity.

Whose fault is it? I don't know.....I'm just tired of following franchises with more excuses than options or solutions.

OH Yeah....I forgot....The chances of us not losing on a Prince trade is small....in most trades where the team trades the best player in the deal...they lose....big surprise.

[paul253]

As it stands right now, they have one of the best offenses in baseball.

 

And how have we been doing the past few years with that offense?

I have no reason to believe that the Brewers can't compete if they can

get a #1/#2 pitcher to push Wolf to 3, and pick up someone to fill the

#4 hole with upside.

 

I think a lot of people would agree with you here, but you seem to be underestimating how hard this is going to be. Where exactly is this #1 or #2 pitcher going to come from? I see one and only one option-Greinke, and even this seems like a pipe dream right now. Melvin has spent what, 8 years trying to find an ace? I have my doubts that he'll even be able to find the #4 with upside at this point?

 

We should take whatever we can get for him and move on.

I think you need to add more to this statement to make it more accurate. My view is something like this: "We should take what we can get for him right now BECAUSE we are not likely to win with him in 2011, he is almost assured of leaving after this season, and I believe we are more likely to get players who can help us in the future in a trade than in the draft". Like the previous poster said, people can rag on Daniel Hudson all they want, but the fact is if one of those two draft picks turn into someone like Hudson we'd all be thrilled. The chances of us turning both of those picks into better players than Hudson is pretty small.