Rays Owner: "Nothing Can Change" Payroll Slashing

[JohnBriggs12]

Raise your hands if you've been in Tropicana Field!

 

I was there in 2004. Once you've set foot in that place, it becomes obvious why this team doesn't draw. It's hard to find words that properly describe the place. Chintzy, depressing, dank etc. The concourses are horrendous, tiny and dark. True Wrigley is like that too, but at least it's outdoors and it has the excuse of being old. I spent half the game having to convince myself I was in a major league facility instead of an abandoned warehouse. It's so dark in there that I would imagine leaving after a day game into the Florida sun would be like exiting an old movie theater.

 

I've also read it's not in a great neighborhood. It seemed okay to me right around the park, but a mile or two away were what you'd picture to be a low rent district to look like in a Florida city.

 

That team has no chance in that park.

[monty57]

John, I've never been in Tropicana, but I've talked to people who have been there, and I think you summed up their opinion of the park pretty well. They said they would never, under any circumstance, go back.

 

Meanwhile Milwaukee has Chicago 90 miles away, with two teams that each have been around continuously for over 100 years.

 

I think this is an often overlooked point. I've lived in the Beloit area for a long time, and much of the population are Cub fans. I think the "old days" when the Cubs were on WGN every day, while we only got to see a few Brewers games a year on TV had a lot to do with this. The Brewers should draw heavily from cities like Beloit and Janesville, but probably don't get the support they should due to the proximity of the Cubs. They also don't get to expand their fan base south, and many Wisconsin residents are too far away to visit Miller Park more than once or twice a year.

 

That said, it really shows how die hard the Wisconsin sports fans are that they continue to fill the stadium. I do, however remember a lot of empty seats for a lot of years, and Attanasio & crew have to continue to build excitement around the team, or we could go back to those days. It wasn't so long ago that there were people across the country wondering why Milwaukee had a team, and wondering where the Brewers would move.

[Funketown]

---

According to Cot's, in 2007, their payroll was $24 million. In 2008, their payroll was $43 million. This year, their opening day payroll was nearly $73 million. If their profits were that small when the payrolls were so low, it's not a stretch for Sternberg to say that they're not going to come close to making a profit with a payroll that's $30 million higher than it was two years ago. If anything, I would think the leaked documents prove his point about this season, but I'm not an expert on financial documents.

You could very well be right, but it wouldn't surprise me if their revenue has riven by $30 million or so to cover the additional player costs. Of course, attendance is only going to be up about 100,000 from 2008, but perhaps with their increased TV ratings, jersey sales, etc. Who knows though, owners have been known to understate their profit levels for as long as they've been around.

 

If I were a betting man though, I'd be willing to wager that the Rays didn't raise their payroll because they wanted to lose millions (of course, they could have missed the boat on the amount of increased revenue they'd see).

[monty57]

Of course, the owner could realize that his window for a World Series ring is closing, and he may have been willing to bite the bullet and personally lose millions to take a shot this season before turning it back over to a team of pre-arby guys. Who knows?

[Polish Falcons]

The Rays can pretty much fall below $50M by letting Carl Crawford ($10M), Carlos Pena ($10M), and Rafael Soriano ($7M) walk, which I'm sure they will do

Like I posted, with other players getting raises, it's not quite this simple, even with cutting loose the additional ~$7M from Wheeler & Qualls. They'll get close to $50M, but not under without moving more additional salary/ies. My guesstimate is that they'll still need to cut $5-10M to get to where the owner claims they need to be.

"pretty much" was meant to indicate this, and I was trying to touch on the main pieces without making footnotes for the obvious. The main thing I think is that Garza is available to be traded.

I have been to Tropicana Dome and, now that the metrodome is gone, this is by far the worst park in baseball in my opinion. The stadium to me was grey and depressing. I actually left the game I attended very early, which is something I never do, because I disliked it so much. I actually think it might have been worse than metrodome for baseball.

[joepepsi]

The entire state of Florida has proven they don't deserve major league baseball. The New Jersey/New York market could probably support both Florida teams, but as long as the Yankees own Bud Selig you know that will never happen.

[Invader3K]

The entire state of Florida has proven they don't deserve major league baseball. The New Jersey/New York market could probably support both Florida teams, but as long as the Yankees own Bud Selig you know that will never happen.

Very valid points. The Marlins are getting a new stadium very soon, so they won't be moving, though.

I would love to see the Rays move to the New York area. They could be the New Jersey Rays or Brooklyn Rays or something. Of course after all the recent stadium construction around there, I'm not sure how eager people would be to build yet another new stadium.

 

[CheezWizHed]

There is the solution to the salary cap issue! Just move so many teams into the NY/Boston/LA/Chicago markets that they all break down to small and midsize markets! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[trwi7]

New York doesn't need another team. Philadelphia and both New York teams are within two hours of each other.

 

Edit: A couple of interesting areas would be in California. The Inland Empire area with San Bernadino, Riverside, Bakersfield, Fontana and Rancho Cucamonga could be a good spot and with the Dodgers taking up a lot of Los Angeles and Anaheim breaking into the Los Angeles area while still having Long Beach, Santa Ana and Huntington Beach as additional fairly large cities to draw fans another team in Southern California could make sense.

 

Another is Sacramento which is about as big as Milwaukee but has a larger metropolitan area and TV market.

 

The only problem that I can see with those two areas is that the baseball fans in both areas of California already cheer for the Dodgers, Angels, Giants or A's, so them switching teams is unlikely, which is admittedly a pretty big problem in trying to move a team there.

[nate82]

In the west Portland, Las Vegas, and Salt Lake City make the most sense. I am not sure another team in California would make sense there are already 5 teams (Dodgers, A's, Padres, Giants, and Angels) in the state of California. I don't think the state of New York or New Jersey would be willing to fund a new stadium for the Rays to move there.

[jeffy]

The only problem that I can see with those two areas is that the baseball fans in both areas of California already cheer for the Dodgers, Angels, Giants or A's, so them switching teams is unlikely, which is admittedly a pretty big problem in trying to move a team there.

 

That is also the problem with adding a team to NY. I think it might be more likely to work if the new team is in a different state...like Nevada or Oregon in the west, or NJ or CT/RI in NY area.

 

Looking at current team locations and a list of the largest metro areas, the only locations that I don't think have been mentioned yet, might be Tennessee (Memphis or Nashville) or Indianapolis.

 

Then there are the international options: Mexico, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic,...

[jerichoholicninja]

I would think that New Orleans would have great support for a baseball team, look at the Saints. The closest teams would be St. Louis, Atlanta, and Texas/Houston. The Superdome has had baseball games in it before.

[colbyjack]

Both Oakland and San Francisco have had their own problems in their respective markets. Remember when the Giants threatened to move to the St. Petersburg area, probably 10-12 years ago, before they got their new stadium?

 

Texas could probably handle a third team (San Antonio), Portland and Charlotte as noted would seem like viable options, and Oklahoma City seems to be growing pretty quick.

 

If Las Vegas ever gets a big professional sports team, I doubt the first will be a MLB club.

 

Overall, that's too bad for the Rays. They really have built one heck of a system from top to bottom, somewhat like what the Twins have going for them. Although I thought Tampa had managed to secure a new stadium right on the bay, although it's been a while since I heard anything about that. I could see them remaining competitive even with a much smaller payroll, as there are some pieces in place to replace some of the talent they project to lose.

[Invader3K]

Although I thought Tampa had managed to secure a new stadium right on the bay,

 

It seemed like things were heading that way, but I believe that fell through last year.

[owbc]

The Rays' stadium has indeed stalled, which is too bad since their concept of the "sail" retractable roof right on the water looked like one of the neatest and most unique ballparks in MLB. Besides problems with securing funding, I think the Rays are locked in a long term lease that would be difficult to break--which also throws out the possibility of relocation for now. It is the opposite of the Marlins, who are literally being kicked out of Sun Life Stadium by the Dolphins. The Marlins' new stadium is cheap and small and in an inaccessible location, but it is far superior to their current situation.

 

The options for relocation are very unattractive in my opinion--especially in this economy and in a time when public funded sports venues are coming under increased scrutiny. I personally think the best option would be a new Brooklyn Dodgers playing in a replica Ebbets Field, but that is about as likely to happen as the Yankees having a 90 loss season.

[twobrewers]

I'm just sad that the Ray's have such a great, young and exciting team stuck in Florida.

 

If Milwaukee had that team, our fan base, and Mark A as an owner we would win multiple world series.

[Polish Falcons]

The entire state of Florida has proven they don't deserve major league baseball. The New Jersey/New York market could probably support both Florida teams, but as long as the Yankees own Bud Selig you know that will never happen.

Very valid points. The Marlins are getting a new stadium very soon, so they won't be moving, though.

I would love to see the Rays move to the New York area. They could be the New Jersey Rays or Brooklyn Rays or something.

 

Invader you just became my favorite commenter! I love the idea of putting a team in Brooklyn. The minor league Brooklyn Cyclones draw 8 thousands fans a game, and they are just in the meager short season NY/Penn League. Brooklyn is the most populous borough. Although there are already two teams in in NYC, it is a pain in the neck to get from Brooklyn to Flushing or the Bronx for a game, unless you have a car, which most of the 2.5+ million residents to not. For comparison it might be easier, or at least take less time, to drive from Milwaukee to Wrigley Field than it is to take the subway from most parts of Brooklyn to Citi Field. Another issue is that the Mets and Yankees do not offer family friendly prices. Lots of people want to go to games but feel they can't afford it. A Brooklyn team could take a different approach from the Yankees and Mets (lower costs and better management) which would be of great appeal to many Brooklyn baseball fans as well as other parts of NYC metro area. Affordable tickets, lower payroll, different attitude. Just carry the Rays management philosophy over. People are so burnt out on the disaster that is the New York Mets, and the other half will always hate the Yankees. It is a huge city with room for 3 teams. Although I think the Mets would take a huge hit, which they probably deserve. Anyway this is just a pipe dream but I love the idea and certainly believe that Brooklyn has the capability to run a successful franchise, far more so than any other cities that have been mentioned. Then again there is the issue of community opposition that the NBA Brooklyn Nets experienced. I don't know if the boro could go through all that again.

[owbc]

Only 17,000 showed up last night at the Trop. Sad. Can't use the bad ballpark as an excuse in late September. At least Padres fans are finally showing up--35,000 at Petco last night.

[WestSideWillie]

About the only city worthwhile from growth now for a team is San Antonio but I don't think the Rays

will move---Brewers will draw close to 3 million, record marketing and sponsorship money

and team owner Attanasio is quoted as the team WILL lose money this season.

If the Brewers will lose money, how will the Rays NOT lose money and continue to do so?

However, I do like Carl Crawford in left field for the Brewers and Ryan Braun to first base. Obviously,

our ownership will never sign Prince.

[trwi7]

Rays draw 12,446 when they have a chance to clinch a playoff spot.

 

Evan Longoria:

 

We go out there and play hard for 162 games," Longoria said, "and for the fans to show the kind of support they're showing right now, you kind of wonder what else you have to do as a player.

David Price:

 

Had a chance to clinch a post season spot tonight with about 10,000 fans in the stands....embarrassing

Hard to disagree with either of them. I know it's a Monday and school has started and the Orioles aren't exactly a big draw, but how many fans show up to a Brewers game on a school night against a crappy team if they had a chance to clinch a playoff spot, even with a Packer game that night? I'm guessing at least 35,000 and probably more.

[nate82]

Hard to disagree with either of them. I know it's a Monday and school has started and the Orioles aren't exactly a big draw, but how many fans show up to a Brewers game on a school night against a crappy team if they had a chance to clinch a playoff spot, even with a Packer game that night? I'm guessing at least 35,000 and probably more.

September of 2008 attendance: Only one home game was under 30,000

 

137	137	Monday, Sep 1	boxscore	MIL		NYM	L	2	4		80-57	2	4.5	Figueroa	Gagne	Ayala	3:09	41,476	[tt]-[/tt]
138	138	Tuesday, Sep 2	boxscore	MIL		NYM	L	5	6	10	80-58	2	4.5	Smith	Torres	Ayala	3:21	36,587	[tt]--[/tt]
139	139	Wednesday, Sep 3	boxscore	MIL		NYM	L	2	9		80-59	2	4.5	Perez	Bush		2:52	26,236	[tt]---[/tt]
140	140	Thursday, Sep 4	boxscore	MIL		SDP	L	2	5		80-60	2	5.0	Estes	Suppan	Hoffman	2:52	33,182	[tt]----[/tt]
141	141	Friday, Sep 5	boxscore	MIL		SDP	W	3	2	11	81-60	2	4.0	Shouse	Falkenborg		3:38	41,519	[tt]+[/tt]
142	142	Saturday, Sep 6	boxscore	MIL		SDP	W	1	0		82-60	2	4.0	Sheets	Peavy		2:07	42,667	[tt]++[/tt]
143	143	Sunday, Sep 7	boxscore	MIL		SDP	L	1	10		82-61	2	4.0	Young	Parra		2:24	44,568	[tt]-[/tt]
144	144	Monday, Sep 8	boxscore	MIL		CIN	L	4	5		82-62	2	4.5	Burton	Torres	Cordero	2:52	30,867	[tt]--[/tt]
145	145	Tuesday, Sep 9	boxscore	MIL		CIN	L	4	5	11	82-63	2	4.5	Adkins	McClung	Cordero	4:21	30,312	[tt]---[/tt]
146	146	Wednesday, Sep 10	boxscore	MIL		CIN	W	4	3		83-63	2	4.5	Mota	Weathers	Torres	2:45	30,124	[tt]+[/tt]

157	157	Tuesday, Sep 23	boxscore	MIL		PIT	W	7	5		86-71	2	9.5	Torres	Beam		3:11	36,612	[tt]++[/tt]
158	158	Wednesday, Sep 24	boxscore	MIL		PIT	W	4	2		87-71	2	9.5	Sabathia	Maholm	Torres	2:43	31,164	[tt]+++[/tt]
159	159	Thursday, Sep 25	boxscore	MIL		PIT	W	5	1	10	88-71	2	8.5	Stetter	Chavez		3:06	40,102	[tt]++++[/tt]
160	160	Friday, Sep 26	boxscore	MIL		CHC	W	5	1		89-71	2	7.5	McClung	Marshall		3:04	44,084	[tt]+++++[/tt]
161	161	Saturday, Sep 27	boxscore	MIL		CHC	L	3	7		89-72	2	8.5	Lilly	Sheets		3:03	45,288	[tt]-[/tt]
162	162	Sunday, Sep 28	boxscore	MIL		CHC	W	3	1		90-72	2	7.5	Sabathia	Howry		2:25	45,299	[tt]+[/tt]

[trwi7]

We never had a chance to clinch any of those games though. How many show up last night if the Brewers can clinch a playoff spot while playing the Nationals? Even with the Packers I'm guessing it's close to a sellout at least.

[GAME05]

what's going to be doubly sad is when their draft pick luck runs out.

 

and here i thought their attendance would completely turn around once they changed "Devil Rays" to just "Rays"

[nate82]

We never had a chance to clinch any of those games though. How many show up last night if the Brewers can clinch a playoff spot while playing the Nationals? Even with the Packers I'm guessing it's close to a sellout at least.

That was my point. Even without clinching there was near sell outs. If the Brewers would have been able to clinch a playoff spot on Wednesday against the Mets that would have been a sell out. I just don't believe the Rays are in a city that is going to allow them to succeed even if they get a new stadium. They will still have the same problems that they are having now even with a new stadium.