Rickie Weeks to be dangled?? (per ESPN Insider)

[sveumrules]

Anytime someone on here quoyes uzr I immediately discount their baseball knowledge. I know that includes some pretty sage people On here but I cannot help it.

 

Uzr is evil people.

What fielding metrics do you prefer? I think most people are aware of the shortcomings of UZR, but as far as I'm aware it's the best that's out there for free. Or I guess we could revert back to Fielding Percentage and the good old fashioned eye test. Hey I saw Corey Hart make a diving catch one time on the TV and he is generally regarded as being fast so he's a great RF!

[thebruce44]

sveumrules[/b]]

molitor[/b] fan]Anytime someone on here quoyes uzr I immediately discount their baseball knowledge. I know that includes some pretty sage people On here but I cannot help it.

 

Uzr is evil people.

What fielding metrics do you prefer? I think most people are aware of the shortcomings of UZR, but as far as I'm aware it's the best that's out there for free. Or I guess we could revert back to Fielding Percentage and the good old fashioned eye test. Hey I saw Corey Hart make a diving catch one time on the TV and he is generally regarded as being fast so he's a great RF!

I prefer UZR, and the eye test of myself and as many opinions as I can read from around the league. It sucks to go off of reputation and a stat with known shortcomings, but thats about the best you can do at this point.

 

When someone discounts one or the other completely, I immediately discount their baseball and life knowledge. You should be seeking all the tools and resources you can get baseball or otherwise. Not making blanket decisions to follow in every situation.

[molitor fan]

Thebruce - ready to make such pronouncements over UZR? Really?

I have been on brewerfan for a decade (and actually have enjoyed your posts) and have seen many smart people people hang their hats on unsupportable tenets. This is simply one of those times. Defensive metrics as reliable measures do not exist.

[sveumrules]

So if defense can't be reliably measured, should we just quit trying? Do you discount defense completely then when evaluating players?

 

I don't think many people who use UZR are trying to hang their hat on anything because if they are smart enough to be quoting UZR then they are also likely smart enough to understand its limitations and are fully aware that it is neither absolute nor perfect.

 

Metrics are evolutionary. We went from AVG to OPS to wOBA to determine who could hit the best over the course of time. As fielding is much more difficult to accurately quantify we've gone from Errors to UZR to ???. When ??? gets here and we have a more reliable model to evaluate defense that is freely disseminated over the web I'll be tickled pink, but until then I see no point in not using the best data currently available (especially if you know the limitations of that data from the outset).

[thebruce44]

Thebruce - ready to make such pronouncements over UZR? Really?

 

I have been on brewerfan for a decade (and actually have enjoyed your posts) and have seen many smart people people hang their hats on unsupportable tenets. This is simply one of those times. Defensive metrics as reliable measures do not exist.

I don't mean to insult you, I just don't think its wise to completely discount UZR or judge people who use it. Look at it like you are doing a hypothetical paper on something. Say there are 3 sources on the topic by 3 authors who all have their own take but for the most part are in line with each other. Is it smart to just completely ignore one of the books? Or would you learn more and would your paper benefit the most from reading all 3 books and using them all to form your own personal opinion?

 

I am simply saying that defense is a complicated beast. Nobody can watch every defensive play in every game every year. Nobody can remain completely objective when judging individual player's defense.

 

UZR is a flawed attempt to objectively rate player's defense. Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it better than other available defensive stats. I think so.

 

So to completely discount it all of the time is foolish in my opinion. I like to look at it as another source in addition to my own observations and those I read from scouts and other fans. I acknowledge it's weaknesses and try to specifically identify them for individual players when necessary (where things like defensive positioning come into account).

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

[Never Outhustled]

I think the point that the Brewers tend to look to move their young guns when they're nearing their FA years and no possible contract extension is in sight is fairly established and I think you must see that and have to be playing devils advocate here.

 

Can you name some examples of this? The only time its happened was Richie Sexson, and that was years ago when the Brewers were just beginning their rebuilding process. Carlos Lee wasn't dealt in the offseason, and they kept Coco Cordero. 1 time in 8 years and you call that an established method of operation?

[GB12]

I think a reason Braun would have for not wanting to move to first base is All Star voting and post season awards. He's started the All Star Game the past three seasons, and he's pretty much a lock every year as long as he's decent. Now think about if he's at first base; he's certainly not going to be beating out Pujols. When looking back on players' careers the number of all star selections is always brought up, and Braun definitely seems like a guy who would care about that.