Rickie Weeks to be dangled?? (per ESPN Insider)

[paul253]

I think if we trade Weeks and Fielder, we'd have to completely embrace the blowup.

 

Not necessarily. While the offense would obviously take a hit, you'd be taking a hit from our strength. You'd also still have Hart, Braun, and McGehee as solid offensive contributors. Top that with the fact that the pitching staff would be better and I can't envision us doing much worse than we have this year. It may still take some time for players like Lucroy, Cain, Escobar, and Gamel to improve enough for us to compete regularly, but I feel much more confident in competing soon with the likes of Rogers, Rivas, and Jeffress, plus whoever we get in return for Weeks and Fielder, than I would with a above average offense and Bush, Narveson, Davis, and Suppan in the rotation. If any lesson needs to be learned from the past few years, it's that pitching, not offense, wins games.

[Never Outhustled]

paul253]I think if we trade Weeks and Fielder, we'd have to completely embrace the blowup.

 

Not necessarily. While the offense would obviously take a hit, you'd be taking a hit from our strength. You'd also still have Hart, Braun, and McGehee as solid offensive contributors. Top that with the fact that the pitching staff would be better and I can't envision us doing much worse than we have this year. It may still take some time for players like Lucroy, Cain, Escobar, and Gamel to improve enough for us to compete regularly, but I feel much more confident in competing soon with the likes of Rogers, Rivas, and Jeffress, plus whoever we get in return for Weeks and Fielder, than I would with a above average offense and Bush, Narveson, Davis, and Suppan in the rotation. If any lesson needs to be learned from the past few years, it's that pitching, not offense, wins games.

 

Not to mention this is yet another scenario where the suggestion is being made that we slash payroll by $25 million. That's not happening! If the team trades 2 hitters, it will sign 1. Werth, Crawford, or Beltre would help keep this a formidible offense.

 

If Weeks is dealt, I'd think McGehee would slide over to 2B, with Gamel at 3B, or the OF, depending on which FA we sign. McGehee was OK at 2b last year, despite a bad knee. McGehee seems to have lost weight and gained agility as this season progresses. He's actually defended pretty well in the 2nd half. He'd likely look much better at 2B now than he did last year.

[Invader3K]

Not to mention this is yet another scenario where the suggestion is being made that we slash payroll by $25 million. That's not happening! If the team trades 2 hitters, it will sign 1. Werth, Crawford, or Beltre would help keep this a formidible offense.

 

How do you really know any of this? Just seems like you are presenting your opinion as fact. The three guys you mentioned are probably all going to have a glut of suitors (probably including several big market teams). I'd love to see the Brewers sign one, but it's far from a done deal. And who knows if we will be able to trade Fielder and/or Weeks/Gamel/McGehee/whoever. It always seems like the trade market doesn't work out that well for the Brewers...maybe that is Doug Melvin's fault, though.

 

As far as the budget, while I think you're right that it isn't going to decrease by $25 million, a slide of $10-15 million doesn't seem impossible.

[TooLiveBrew]

That's not happening! If the team trades 2 hitters, it will sign 1. Werth, Crawford, or Beltre would help keep this a formidible offense.

 

Two Boras clients & the guy that'll probably be the most sought after position player this offseason (Crawford). While I understand you want the Brewers to go out & spend $25M this offseason, I don't see it happening. Seems like spending money for the sake of spending money to me. I would personally love to see them sign Beltre if Mat Gamel is no longer seen as a third baseman, though. Trouble with that is Beltre's coming off a career year & has immense value to Boston, not to mention his representation & high value as a FA otherwise.

 

And I really don't understand your assertion that McGehee would play 2B. He's bad at 3B, so let's move him to a more difficult position that relies even more on his weakness of range & athletic ability? Makes no sense to me.

[thebruce44]

 

If Weeks is dealt, I'd think McGehee would slide over to 2B, with Gamel at 3B, or the OF, depending on which FA we sign. McGehee was OK at 2b last year, despite a bad knee. McGehee seems to have lost weight and gained agility as this season progresses. He's actually defended pretty well in the 2nd half. He'd likely look much better at 2B now than he did last year.

I just shuttered at the thought of McGehee playing 2B.

[TooLiveBrew]

Don't worry, he's only 195 lbs

[logan82]

thebruce44 wrote:

I just shuttered at the thought of McGehee playing 2B.

I threw up a little in my mouth.

[Never Outhustled]

logan3825]

thebruce44 wrote:

I just shuttered at the thought of McGehee playing 2B.

I threw up a little in my mouth.

 

Based on what? He was clearly better at 2B than 3B last year, and that was when he was playing on a bum knee. He has actually defended well in the 2nd half this season. He can play deep at 2B, and let his arm do all the work there.

[Never Outhustled]

The three guys you mentioned are probably all going to have a glut of suitors (probably including several big market teams)

Which teams? Have you even looked at the finances of other teams? The Giants need offense, but they can't afford them. I've been told the Yanks will sign Lee, plus they have to resign Jeter and Rivera, that will be all they can do. The Phillies are over-budget. The Mets are way over-budget. The Angels, Braves, and Cardinals budgets are pretty much full, no room for a major FA. The Dodgers are a mess. The Rays are slashing payroll.

 

There's basically enough players for the teams that can actually spend on them.

 

 

As far as the budget, while I think you're right that it isn't going to decrease by $25 million, a slide of $10-15 million doesn't seem impossible.

They might cut $5 million off the budget, but that still leaves more than enough for a major FA signee. $15 million would be a PR nightmare.

[nate82]

If you sign Crawford or Werth who moves to 1B then? I would have to believe it would be Braun who would be moved to 1B since he would be the weakest of the 4 OF on the team then. I wouldn't mind an OF of Crawford, Cain, and Hart that would actually be a rather good OF.

 

I don't see the Brewers moving Weeks though and I don't see McGehee playing 2B at all at least not good. I believe McGehee's value to the Brewers is more valuable at 3B than it would be at 2B his defense would nearly cancel out any value he would have offensively. Don't even talk about 2009 as being anything for McGehee at 2B he didn't play enough 2B in 2009 for you to even draw up a conclusion if he could or if he couldn't play 2B. I am leaning towards more of him not being able to play a decent enough of a 2B based on his defense this year at 3B which needs less range than a 2B needs.

 

I just do not see how you can believe McGehee would be even remotely valuable at 2B for the Brewers. If McGehee isn't playing 3B for the Brewers in 2011 then he better be at 1B or was traded. Having him play 2B will be a disaster.

 

The Brewers are probably going to cut payroll by about $10 million which is about what Prince made this year so there is your payroll cut.

[sheetskout]

I just don't see the Brewers adding a sub-mega-contract like Carl Crawford with Braun there and Cain playing well. Hart would be the best fit at first as he's tall. Braun has played well enough out there. Statistically, he really isn't that far off a Hart-type fielding corner OF.

[nate82]

I just don't see the Brewers adding a sub-mega-contract like Carl Crawford with Braun there and Cain playing well. Hart would be the best fit at first as he's tall. Braun has played well enough out there. Statistically, he really isn't that far off a Hart-type fielding corner OF.

And statistically speaking Braun is almost as bad as Soriano is in LF. Braun is the worst defensive OF the Brewers have right now on the team. I would rather have Hart take over in LF than have him at 1B.

[igor67]

I think the problem with that line of reasoning nate82 is that Braun has tons of athleticism and has now been bad defensively at 2 positions, why not a third? Hart could reasonably be an average to above average first basemen.

[ramssuperbowl99]

I think the problem with that line of reasoning nate82 is that Braun has tons of athleticism and has now been bad defensively at 2 positions, why not a third? Hart could reasonably be an average to above average first basemen.

Sure, but worst case scenario, Braun is just as bad at 1B as he is at LF. Hart would probably be an about average LF defender, which is about 5 runs better than he is now. Obviously, there is a hole in RF in that case, but that could be filled by a FA, Lawrie, or Gamel.

It has always puzzled me that Braun is as bad in left as he is. He's a good athlete with good speed and a decent arm. He doesn't make a tremendous amount of errors either - he just doesn't get to balls. I don't know if this is a coaching problem, an effort problem on Braun's part, or what it is, because a LF with good speed should be a decent defender. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[logan82]

Terrible fielding instincts. That is why he would be a really bad 1B. At least in the outfield he has more time to make up for it with his athleticism.

[Never Outhustled]

I just don't see the Brewers adding a sub-mega-contract like Carl Crawford with Braun there and Cain playing well. Hart would be the best fit at first as he's tall. Braun has played well enough out there. Statistically, he really isn't that far off a Hart-type fielding corner OF.

 

 

If the Brewers signed Crawford and moved Braun to 1B, even if Braun defended 1B as bad as Fielder, the Brewers defense would still be about 40 runs better. Thats an awesome improvement. Then throw in that Braun will likely be better than Fielder at 1B. I realize Braun was a bad 3B, but just imagine what Fielder would be as a 3B. Braun would be better just by being an average sized target that can bend at the waist.

[nate82]

Terrible fielding instincts. That is why he would be a really bad 1B. At least in the outfield he has more time to make up for it with his athleticism.

And what fielding instincts would you need at 1B? How many times does a 1B really have to field a ball that is not thrown to him? Pujols wasn't all that great at 3B or LF for that matter and look he is a decent 1B. 1B is not all that difficult and it is not a premium defensive position. Braun would actually improve the Brewers defense if he was at 1B versus being in the OF.

[Never Outhustled]

Terrible fielding instincts. That is why he would be a really bad 1B. At least in the outfield he has more time to make up for it with his athleticism.

 

His instincts kill him in the OF. 1B is all about hand-eye coordination, which he has.

[Roderick]

Maybe I missed something, but has Braun ever been asked by the media if he would embrace a move to 1B?

 

Because, I would assume Braun would not like a move to 1B - and if that is the case, would Melvin risk that with Braun?

[And That]

It seems to me that when Braun catches a ball in the outfield, he often has a problem gloving it. As in, the ball gets caught in the heel or high in the webbing. He just looks awkward catching the baseball. My guess is he'd have some similar problems at first, only with gloving short-hops and low throws.

 

I also wouldn't totally discount instincts at 1B - have you seen Adam Dunn play there?

 

All that said, Braun would probably be an upgrade over Fielder, but as Roderick mentioned, I have serious doubts that Braun would be thrilled with the move.

[nate82]

Adam Dunn right now has a -2.3 UZR/150 this year and Braun has a -10.5 UZR/150 this year. If Braun can play defense like Dunn that is a win win situation for the Brewers. The increase in the quality of the defense in LF would be a huge improvement for the team.

[logan82]

I don't think Dunn and Pujols are good comparisons. Braun is much more athlectic than they are. Braun would just take his -10.5 UZR/150 to 1B with him.

[HiAndTight]

Can you tell me who we traded Ben Sheets or Mike Cameron for?

Surly you can see a difference between Cam's 2 year deal, Sheets unique injury situation, and a player coming to the end of his team controlled 6 year run.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about Sheets injury situation? Al claims when players enter their final year of contract, their extended or traded. Sheets entered 2008 in the last year of his contract. Under Al's generalization, he'd been dealt before the year started.

 

Also, i'd much rather be called surly than Shirley, so no offense taken.

I think it means Sheets had continuously been injured, ie, there market was not very strong for him, AND we had a team that we thought(And rightfully so) could be a playoff contender.

 

with Cameron, he was an aging vet that people showed very little interest in when he was a free agent.

 

I think the point that the Brewers tend to look to move their young guns when they're nearing their FA years and no possible contract extension is in sight is fairly established and I think you must see that and have to be playing devils advocate here.

[molitor fan]

Anytime someone on here quoyes uzr I immediately discount their baseball knowledge. I know that includes some pretty sage people On here but I cannot help it.

 

Uzr is evil people.

[nate82]

Anytime someone on here quoyes uzr I immediately discount their baseball knowledge. I know that includes some pretty sage people On here but I cannot help it.

 

Uzr is evil people.

Just watching Braun play LF I can tell he is as bad as his UZR.

 

Sometimes some things are best not to post at all like the first part of your post. There is no need to question someones baseball knowledge because you disagree with a stat. Anyone who immediately discount something without proof is the real person who should be questioning their own knowledge.