Rule 5 thread -- Latest: Rosario back to Brewers, Egan to Orioles

[pete]

You can compare him to someone who didn't do well, but you could also compare him to someone who did well. I don't hear a lot of people saying that the Braves should DFA Martin Prado.

 

Do you think its stupid to send him to the Arizona Fall League? That doesn't make much sense wasting it on someone who isn't very good.

[gregmag]

Martin Prado made his MLB debut at age 22. At 24, in 2008, he put up an OPS of .838 in 254 MLB plate appearances. Your link suggests, rather bluntly, that argument from analogy is inherently fallacious. I would love for you to substantiate that general point -- even articulate it, for that matter -- and/or to explain why Martin Prado belongs in this discussion. For that matter, nobody is talking about DFAing anybody, so I don't really understand anything about the first sentence of your post.

 

In no way am I suggesting that comparing Farris to Iribarren provides a conclusive reason not to add Farris to the 40-man roster. I do think the comparison is sufficiently close, with a pretty clear edge to Iribarren overall, that it's one useful starting point for discussion. If you think, as Al implied, that Farris has sufficient value to warrant adding him to the 40-man, then what is it about him that sets him apart from an Iribarren? There could be a lot of answers. Maybe we should place higher value on his speed and baserunning acumen than I'm inclined to. Maybe there's something about his makeup to suggest that he'll be a late bloomer. Maybe I've missed reports that his defense is beyond special. I'd be interested in knowing why people who really like Farris think he has enough value to warrant a roster spot, and the Iribarren comparison is one way into that argument. What I see is a 24 year-old 2b who would not appear to be a safe bet to top a .600 MLB OPS at 25.

 

I don't toss around words like "stupid" much, and I'm certainly not going to say the Brewers were stupid to send Farris to the AFL. I'm not an expert on how the team makes AFL decisions, and I can't find a list of past assignments, but I have a recollection that the assignments aren't all top prospects; I thought there were some position quotas involved, and also that teams sometimes send less-heralded older players to see whether they're 40-man material. Maybe sending Farris has something to do with one of those factors. Or maybe, as you imply, the Brewers love him. I may be wrong about him, for sure. But if we all held back our opinions whenever they seemed to conflict with the views of the front office, this wouldn't be much of a forum. Certainly if Farris performs brilliantly in the AFL, that will be a big new point in his favor.

[pete]

I put a link to Martin Prado's minor league statistics in an earlier post. His MLB stats enhance my point. The fact that he is not being DFAd is because he isn't OPSing .600.

 

Farris and Prado are about as similar as Irribarren and Farris. You want to use a comparison to Irribarren as a starting point and that is why I put in the link to the logical fallacy.

 

Maybe they're sending Farris to AFL to fill a positional requirement, but that seems far fetched.

[Tedaldtada]

Pretty sure Farris is considered a very fine defender fwiw. There is plenty of room for him, might as well keep him. To me, it is quite obvious they think highly of him. Don't ask me why exactly, but he does have some major league quality skills.

[Never Outhustled]

Prado to Farris is a terrible comparison. Prado was in the majors as a 22 year old, while Farris was in the Midwest League, and Prado still had a higher OPS. As 24 year olds, Prado had a 838 OPS, while Farris was just 659 in AAA. Prado is a very good hitter, Farris struggles at the plate.

 

Farris will get his shot in the AFL, but I doubt he'll hit well enough there to earn a 40 man roster spot.

[colbyjack]

I agree that protecting Farris has a lot more to do with risk management than how anyone, we here or the Brewers themselves, likes the guy. His situation really reminds me of Marcos Scutaro, who didn't prove his worth at the big-league level until a stat-minded team in the A's gave him a chance to play everyday. And even then, it wasn't initially at SS. Scutaro played nearly 5 full seasons at AAA before getting his chance at 26 years of age. And Farris is polished enough that he should hold his own at the MLB level should a team pick him up. I'm not sure if he's worth it.

[clancyphile]

I agree that protecting Farris has a lot more to do with risk management than how anyone, we here or the Brewers themselves, likes the guy. His situation really reminds me of Marcos Scutaro, who didn't prove his worth at the big-league level until a stat-minded team in the A's gave him a chance to play everyday. And even then, it wasn't initially at SS. Scutaro played nearly 5 full seasons at AAA before getting his chance at 26 years of age. And Farris is polished enough that he should hold his own at the MLB level should a team pick him up. I'm not sure if he's worth it.

Part of it may be due to the uncertainty about Weeks staying around. He had a breakout season in 2010, stayed reasonably healthy, and now, could get big bucks on the free-agent market.

If Farris can hold his own at 2B, he may be useful insurance - or alow the Brewers to move Lawrie to third base (should McGehee leave or be traded).

 

[endaround]

But Farris can still be insurance because its highly unlikely any team is going to use a 25 man spot on guy who can only play one position and can't hit. If he was about to be a minor league FA then maybe you give him a 40 man spot, but right now I'd rather have the next Inglett than Farris on the 40 man.

[CheezWizHed]

Unless there are lots of spots open on the 40-man, I doubt the Brewers keep both Green and Farris. And Green has the advantage over Farris in everything but speed:

- younger (8 months)

- power

- OBP

- versatility: I think most people expect Green to handle 2B well and he is our best defensive 3B (at least among Green/Lawrie/Gamel/McGehee).

 

If Weeks were to leave, I'd prefer Green as our starting 2B over Farris.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Unless there are lots of spots open on the 40-man, I doubt the Brewers keep both Green and Farris. And Green has the advantage over Farris in everything but speed:

- younger (8 months)

- power

- OBP

- versatility: I think most people expect Green to handle 2B well and he is our best defensive 3B (at least among Green/Lawrie/Gamel/McGehee).

 

If Weeks were to leave, I'd prefer Green as our starting 2B over Farris.

If Weeks were to leave, I'm pretty sure Lawrie would be our starting 2B, so I don't think Green or Farris factor into the equation in that respect. Green, like you said, is better than Farris in almost every aspect. If it comes down to those 2 for one spot, it's gonna be Green for sure.

[logan82]

CheezWizHed wrote:

- versatility: I think most people expect Green to handle 2B well and he is our best defensive 3B (at least among Green/Lawrie/Gamel/McGehee).

That is almost a backhanded complement.

[CheezWizHed]

If Weeks were to leave, I'm pretty sure Lawrie would be our starting 2B...

 

Agreed. I really only meant over Farris.

 

That is almost a backhanded complement.

 

Wasn't intended to be. A couple years ago, I thought Green was more likely to be our starting 3B than Gamel (better D and slightly behind offensively). These last two years at AA have lowered my expectations a bit, while Gamel has hit AAA well. I think still has the potential to be a starting 3B, as injuries might account for a lowered AA offensive output. Or he could max out as a backup MLB player. Hard to say at this point...

 

But I was really only trying to say that since he is good defensively at 3B, there is a good chance it would translate to 2B also.

[bork]

As mentioned in the major league forum, Estrada and Periard were outrighted. So that's 2 more names available for the Rule 5 draft.

[CheezWizHed]

Looks like our 40-man roster will soon be down to 32. That seems like more room than usual, but maybe that's just me...

 

With 8 spots to fill, I would think that Peralta, Green, Farris, and Merklinger could all be added pretty easily and still leave room for external roster additions.

[JohnBriggs12]

Did I miss something? Did Iribarren ever steal 70 bases in one season?

 

Farris did. As to his so-called lack of hitting prowess, I seem to recall he hit around .350 in the 2nd half of 2009, then jumped 2 levels where he hit a respectable .274 in a season interrupted by over 2 months on the DL. Now he's hit safely in every game he's played in the AFL (currently hitting .413).

 

I don't recall Iribarren ever being voted the top defensive player at his position either. On the other hand Farris has. Why they haven't given him more than a handful of games at SS is puzzling. My guess is he could handle it. He's certainly quick enough to cover ground and he's a solid fielder. The only question I suppose is his arm strength.

[battlekow]

Eric Farris, Dan Merklinger, and Wily Peralta were added to the 40-man, per Haudricourt.

 

The deadline for Rule 5 protection is Friday, so unless guys like Taylor Green and Brendan Katin are added between now and then, they'll be eligible to be drafted away by another team.

(fixed link --1992)

[Mass Haas]

This thread isn't all that long in terms of posts since its September inception, and if you go back and read it from scratch (suggested), contains lively discussion and arguments for all the parties mentioned.

 

Taylor Green is probably a bit disappointed, but Dan Merklinger certainly came on in the 2nd half, even if 95% of his work was at high-A.

 

Congrats to Eric, Dan, and Wily.

 

Now we wait for the probable non-tenders to drop the roster down from 37 a bit.

[Mass Haas]

Brewerfan 40-man roster page includes remaining option information

[twobrewers]

I guess Cleveland can have Taylor Green and Michael Brantley now. It looks like they chose wisely.

[Mass Haas]

The deadline for Rule 5 protection is Friday, so unless guys like Taylor Green and Brendan Katin are added between now and then, they'll be eligible to be drafted away by another team.

One does have to wonder about Katin's status. He goes to Mexico to start the winter season and only appears in six games in less than a two-week stretch. Obviously these guys don't commit to winter ball for months at a time, but that stint seems pretty brief -- did he get hurt? He was effective, so he likely wasn't asked to go home. His RH power is so evident, his corner outfield glove decent enough, that's a pretty good niche on a lot of MLB benches.

 

The Brewers should at least throw a non-roster spring training invite bone his way...

[DHonks]

I'd hate to lose Green. And it's not just that...they could have Brantley, Green, AND Salome

[dadofandrew]

Who would want to keep Green in the bigs all year, as a reserve 2B/3B? Seems unlikely at best.

[endaround]

Who would want Farris in the big leagues all year as a backup 2B?

[And That]

Who would want Maldonado in the big leagues all year as a backup C?

[Mass Haas]

Who would want Maldonado in the big leagues all year as a backup C?

The difference being that Maldonado would have left the organization altogether as a minor league free agent.